7 replies to this topic

[Daurock]

So, with the new test server up, i got my games in, and my general thoughts is well, in the topic name

TL-DR: Everything feels faster, and shoots faster than on live. They are essentially power-creeping pretty much everything. 40 cap was better.

On LaserVomit, and Energy Weapons in general - Lasermechs make a comeback, giving probably the best performance of any of the PTS servers, and probably even better performance than live. 50 cap means they can alpha to the same levels as live more or less, and the fact that they get the biggest boost to cooling (Both percentage wise, and raw dissipation wise) makes them less boned when someone pushes on them. If the purpose of this PTS was to reign in these guys a little bit, mission NOT accomplished.

On GaussVomit - This type of build doesn't have heat as a thing anymore. 6x Medium lasers, 7 or 8 heatsinks, and 1 or 2 gauss rifles can fire all day. Brutal.

On SRM, and ballistic Mechs - If you ran a cold-ish build before, you barely even notice heat now. I ran a 6x SRM6, 2x SRM2 bushwacker on grim, and was capable of firing enough alphas to 100-0 2 people before my heat hit the top of the scale. Colder than live if you don't over-load your mech using too many launchers/cannons, and going past ghost heat limits.

On IS vs Clan balance - In all honesty, it felt about the same as live. IS dakka and brawly mechs were mean, IS laserVomits didn't get the same boost everyone else did, and clan Vomit mechs still overshadowed most other things clan mechs can do.

On Agility - Lots of mechs felt faster, because they... are faster. Sometimes to the point of ridiculousness. (Summoner, Cyclops, as a couple of examples) We really need to settle around an "Target" level of agility for each weight class, and only deviate so far from that target - Using it as a balance dial can only go so far, and in some of these mechs, it goes so far as to make them seem ridiculous, yet still not particularly competitive. On the flip side of that equation, sometimes they actually feel about right - the night-gyr, felt good, and the timberwolf having the agility of the 65 tonners actually seemed to work well. Lights and mediums seemed to take it a bit in the shorts though - it is MUCH harder to circle-strafe the bigger mechs in the locusts and pirahnas now.

Overall Thoughts - I know one of the big sticking points even before the first PTS was that the developers didn't want to put in power-creep. This test server seems like almost exactly power creep. Exactly 0 things can i think of that I did on live were less effective here, and most got significantly more deadly. Balance didn't really change between this and live either, so I have to ask - What, exactly, is the point here if we're just speeding up the game? Maybe the is exactly the point I guess, but from the original intent letter here, it seems to be moving away from it. I will note, thatIi did like the 40 cap version a lot better, as it did cap the alphas, and did keep heat as a thing to be concerned about. Of 2.0 and 2.1, I'd definitely take 2.0. After testing this one out, i also think that even my previous opinion that 40 was too low was misguided a bit too.

Suggestions - If the original goal, before even the first PTS was to bring alphas down, only PTS 2.0, and PTS 1.0 actually accomplished it. Either a slightly less overboard 1.0, that includes a gauss damage nerf, or the 2.0 test, with a little more BASE engine cooling seems to be about what i'm thinking at the moment.
Still though, lots of fun testing, see you on the battlefield!

Edited by Daurock, 27 August 2018 - 05:47 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

You aren't supposed to circle strafe, you are supposed to figure-eight to stay behind a target. It will still be harder to do that, granted, but players doing the circle-strafe dance were doing it wrong.

Personally, I prefer this faster-feeling game than the molasses that is the Live client.

[Arkansas6A]

Daurock, on 26 August 2018 - 11:44 AM, said:

On Agility - Lots of mechs felt faster, because they... are faster. Sometimes to the point of ridiculousness. (Summoner, Cyclops, as a couple of examples) We really need to settle around an "Target" level of agility for each weight class, and only deviate so far from that target - Using it as a balance dial can only go so far, and in some of these mechs, it goes so far as to make them seem ridiculous, yet still not particularly competitive...

I did some quick number crunching using my phone for a rough estimate of what the average turning speed is for light, medium and heavy mechs. Keep in mind, I did not go variant by variant ( I was on my phone, and it was tedious enough as is), as some rare variants have different mobility to others. Weird. Anyways, it gives you a rough idea where roughly things be, and who the true outliers are.

Light: 90.9 (Minimum to Maximum 70.5, 112.9)
Medium: 67.9 (45.3, 112.7)
Heavy: 53.5 (40.1 , 80.2)
Assault: 45.5 (33.8, 71.8)

Of course, this is just turning rate. I've a lot more stats to go over. Some medium mechs are just awful, and in dire need of adjusting as well. Unfortunately, all the focus is seemingly on the fat boys right now, with regards to both their damage and mobility.

Edited by Arkansas6A, 27 August 2018 - 09:52 AM.

[Daurock]

Arkansas6A, on 26 August 2018 - 03:55 PM, said:

I did some quick number crunching using my phone for a rough estimate of what the average turning speed is for light, medium and heavy mechs. Keep in mind, I did not go variant by variant ( I was on my phone, and it was tedious enough as is), as some rare variants have different mobility to others. Weird. Anyways, it gives you a rough idea where roughly things be, and who the true outliers are.

Light: 90.9 (Minimum to Maximum 70.5, 112.9)
Medium: 67.9 (45.3, 112.7)
Heavy: 53.5 (40.1 , 80.2)
Assault: (I screwed up, gotta do it again)

Of course, this is just turning rate. I've a lot more stats to go over. Some medium mechs are just awful, and in dire need of adjusting as well. Unfortunately, all the focus is seemingly on the fat boys right now, with regards to both their damage and mobility.

I hear ya. The Progression as you go heavier seems to be there, but the out-liers in each tier get to the point where they get either unusable, (a medium with a turn rate slower than a cyclops, lol) or so fast as to be unbelievable (The "agile" mechs at each tier)

I also kind of think that the generic boost to agility in this patch hits lights and mediums, reducing their power. When the plan is to be able to abuse your mechs agility / speed, you need a window to make that happen. When the big mechs get faster, that window gets smaller, and the bar gets higher. Fewer pilots are able to take advantage at that point.

[Arkansas6A]

Daurock, on 27 August 2018 - 05:25 AM, said:

...I also kind of think that the generic boost to agility in this patch hits lights and mediums, reducing their power. When the plan is to be able to abuse your mechs agility / speed, you need a window to make that happen. When the big mechs get faster, that window gets smaller, and the bar gets higher. Fewer pilots are able to take advantage at that point.

Updated with the assault turn rate numbers. And the more I stare at these numbers, the more I start wondering what the devs were thinking. The quickest turning assault mech out performs eight of the medium mechs (the GAR). It's only one assault, but still, it better have a helluva excuse (And I'm all for that one weird mech, but flavor needs a MacGuffin).

I believe that the light mechs are mobile and small enough to more or less preserve their advantage, and therefore their survivability, but I'm just guessing. I'm not experienced enough with light mechs. I'd be extremely hesitant to buff lights mobility even further as it would make the chore of pest removal that much more of a,well, a more difficult chore. The defacto bug hunting mech is the medium mech, seeing as your team's lights are just as busy doing the same to the baddies. The medium mech is very often supporting/escorting the assaults and heavies, and it makes more sense to pull the 55 ton mech off the line to get that 20 ton mech off of the 100 ton mech. If an Atlas or Warhawk must stop its assault on the frontline enemy to defend itself from a Locust or Piranha, well, that's just bad math.

[Daurock]

Arkansas6A, on 27 August 2018 - 10:47 AM, said:

Updated with the assault turn rate numbers. And the more I stare at these numbers, the more I start wondering what the devs were thinking. The quickest turning assault mech out performs eight of the medium mechs (the GAR). It's only one assault, but still, it better have a helluva excuse (And I'm all for that one weird mech, but flavor needs a MacGuffin).

I believe that the light mechs are mobile and small enough to more or less preserve their advantage, and therefore their survivability, but I'm just guessing. I'm not experienced enough with light mechs. I'd be extremely hesitant to buff lights mobility even further as it would make the chore of pest removal that much more of a,well, a more difficult chore. The defacto bug hunting mech is the medium mech, seeing as your team's lights are just as busy doing the same to the baddies. The medium mech is very often supporting/escorting the assaults and heavies, and it makes more sense to pull the 55 ton mech off the line to get that 20 ton mech off of the 100 ton mech. If an Atlas or Warhawk must stop its assault on the frontline enemy to defend itself from a Locust or Piranha, well, that's just bad math.

I think the key is to be a little more selective on which assault and heavy mechs actually need that extra agility, instead of trying to move the lighter mechs mechs to gundam-speeds. I too am more or less OK with the occasional MacGuffin mech, assuming that it also has some serious drawbacks in order to gain that notoriety. (In the case of the GAR, that liability is it's the fact that its firepower can be matched by some 50 tonners.) My concerns start to show up more when some of those mechs with very good agility for their tonnage can also carry strong payloads, and sometimes even get armor/structure quirks on top of it. When you couple all those things together, you get a mech with few exploitable weaknesses.

No mech is meant to be completely comfortable, IMO, and some of these newly agile mechs, particularly a few assaults and heavies, are getting a little too close to that for my taste.

[MechaBattler]

Gargles has good mobility because it was designed with mobility in mind. In balancing terms it's armament tends to be weak or very short ranged necessitating high mobility to make up for it. It is an exception, not the rule to assault mobility. There are outliers like that in each weight class.

[Arkansas6A]

MechaBattler, on 27 August 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

Gargles has good mobility because it was designed with mobility in mind. In balancing terms it's armament tends to be weak or very short ranged necessitating high mobility to make up for it. It is an exception, not the rule to assault mobility. There are outliers like that in each weight class.

Certainly. And I hold no grudge against those outliers. I don't highlight the GAR because I burn with eternal hate for it. I do it mostly to point out that something is fubarred for the mediums.