79 replies to this topic

[timff8]

Xmith, on 29 August 2018 - 05:36 PM, said:

Training Grounds, Crimson Strait is where I do most of my testing. I like my firepower around 43. Anymore that creates too much heat for my taste. My mechs are built to shoot off the legs of the Cicada with a single alpha to both legs. If I do not, back to the Mechlab I go to get it right. Next, I do three alphas to the Catapult's center torso. Firing alphas immediately after cooldown three times without overheating is right on the money for what I'm looking for. Now I'm ready to shred some armor.

Honeslty I wish this game allowed you to build more for heavy-hitting builds with long reloads. Everything in this game seems underpowered and built around protracted engagements.

Drudgewerk, on 29 August 2018 - 09:09 PM, said:

3. Grab a cheap, fast mech (light trial mechs are good for this) and hit the testing grounds. Run around the maps to get familiar with them so you aren't getting lost. Center of the maps tend to be where most of the fighting takes place. Look for avenues of approach and cover.

This I need, yeah. I find a lot of the maps are either very dark or very repetitive, so it's hard to know what's going on. Maybe it's just my laptop, but the terrain here is just not my friend.

Maddermax, on 29 August 2018 - 09:18 PM, said:

Other than that, consider doing some of the training - specifically "Running Cored". Taking your mech through that trial helps a lot with practicing torso twisting, and working out what works. Twist, fire, twist, fire, spread the damage.

Wait is there actually good training in the game these days? Back when I started it was basically idiot stuff.

RickySpanish, on 30 August 2018 - 01:37 PM, said:

How do you fare with single player games? Are they a little less uncomfortable? Perhaps you might consider playing less of MWO, and waiting to see how the new MechWarrior 5 with its single player campaign treats you? I'm being fairly sincere here - don't put yourself through needless pressure and stress, that's assuredly a slippery slope.

Honestly way better. I'm **** at games in general so when I"m playing against a computer it's way more enjoyable. It's why I never played WoW.

MischiefSC, on 30 August 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

Put the LRMs away. Put the long range stuff away. Go with LLs and ERMLs/MLs for IS, go with CERMLs and ballistics for Clans. Focus on burst fire. The 2xUAC10, 2xUAC5 MadCat MKII is a great example. Even better is the 2xLB20, 4xSRM6 MC MKII for Clans.

Honestly I really want to boat Heavy Large Lasers. They're sexy, for lack of a better word.

MischiefSC, on 30 August 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

You're going to have to change.

If you don't get past your fear response you will always lose to those who do. Consistently and forever. You do that by experience and practice. Getting Good isn't easy - if it was easy everyone would do it. It means changing to improve and the willingness and ability to do that is what separates being consistently successful from, well, everything that isn't.

I mean yeah that's fair. I'm trying to get a better handle on it. The stop-start-stop-start nature of combat flow is reallyl getting to me but I'm working on it.

[timff8]

Krombopulos K Michael, on 30 August 2018 - 09:25 PM, said:

Lesson 5: you need to be brave and find positive outlets to manage the damage you will receive when the 6 mechs are giving you swirlies. Instead of allowing them to penetrate your defenses, sometimes you just need to squeeze tight and make it difficult for them to come at your from behind. Be with the team always in body mind and soul so you can come into the behind of the enemies. They say the best offense is a one that doesn't wait for permission.

Lesson 6: Use the 3rd people camera to your advantage, by using it to spectate how the the enemy is swirlieing around you. Once you understand that then make sure you are able to ask your teammates to help and maybe hold locks so you can tell where they are. Then again don't use a 3rd person camera unless you want the other person to watch. Usually it is your teammates fault for not helping against 6 mechs!

Honeslty I wish TTK was way way lower. My stress would be so much lower if that were the case. If someone flanks me in WoT and kills me in 2 shots it's like "aaaaaaahhhhhh yah got me! You got me fair, nice job." Long ttk is what makes the swirlies scary for me.


How do I type in-game? In WoT you just press enter to start and I have no idea how to do it here. I'd love to type to help out.

[Grus]

Dieing... alot...

[Y E O N N E]

timff8, on 30 August 2018 - 10:46 PM, said:

How do I type in-game? In WoT you just press enter to start and I have no idea how to do it here. I'd love to type to help out.

T opens all chat, Y opens team chat, and U opens lance chat. Enter sends the message.

[timff8]

Yeonne Greene, on 30 August 2018 - 10:55 PM, said:

T opens all chat, Y opens team chat, and U opens lance chat. Enter sends the message.

This is so helpful thank you. I kept hitting G because I was so sure that was it.

[DRlFTER]

Join a reputable unit that is willing to take on a new player.

Pick the brain of pilots who both play well, and are willing to teach.

Learn build concepts and weapons pairings that combo together, and the associated play styles for the ones you want to try.

Go in private lobbies and 1 vs 1 different build archetypes while your mentor spectated you and gives you tips.

You will learn more info quickly this way, then any other way. It helped me tremendously and many others I know as well.

[Tier5ForLife]

RickySpanish, on 28 August 2018 - 07:30 PM, said:

If you don't torso twist you are going to eat huge amounts of damage to one or two sections of your 'Mech, it might not be pleasant to look at, but you should at the very least get into the habit of doing it when you find yourself under focussed fire. It makes the difference between reversing around a corner with your armour red, vs not actually making it around the corner at all.

If you absolutely cannot pause your podcasts or talk over comms, at least use the command wheel to call out standard messages to your team, such as target sighted, need help, etc. When you call a target you have selected or an enemy under your reticule, they remain on the map for everyone to see for a few seconds. This includes movement.

One thing I've trying to learn again and to use a build where I can Alpha and twist. I got into the bad habit of using builds that do constant damage. That can work but if against someone twisting, I end up taking too much CT damage. I blame the KDK-3, lol.

And I cannot stress enough to get a Mic and use it. Mine is a 10-year-old dictation Mic that I strap over my headphones. There is no reason not to use it.

Some years ago I had a bad cycling accident where my jaw was broken, my neck was messed up for life and several teeth were knocked out. So I have problems talking, mainly proper pronunciation. What I've found is that I do not sound as bad as I thought.

So get a Mic and USE IT! Do you ever notice the guy at the beginning of the match that types "stay together and call targets" and that is the last you hear from him?

You do not have to call the match or even to call targets. It is hard to call targets if you are not close to each other and seeing the same thing. I know of a couple of teams that will be on two-three different Teamspeaks channels often doing it by Lance instead of all 12. Plus sometimes the game happens too fast at times. If you have targets popping up and back the target you called is gone. In fact, it is often to even target anything to call a target in such conditions.

However, if you are LRMing with a few other teammates, you SHOULD be calling targets. If you are together, you should be able to hit the same target. And with it being so much harder to get and to hold a missile lock, you really should do it.

And it is not hard. If you are firing on target Alpha just say "Target Alpha", or "Alpha, Alpha, Alpha" if it is a very good target or if it is coming to kill you. There is a very good reason for attacking the same target with 2 to 3 of your teammates. If you have read the books, you might remember that that was the way I.S. Units did it. 3-4 mechs can wreck one mech very quickly. Again in the books, the Clan (who only fought one on one) largely had to change to do it that way.

Wreck one enemy mech quickly and now it is 12-11. And that allows you to get into even move 2 to 3 on 1 attacks. Thus it snowballs.

It is a big mistake to think that a Mic is only for calling targets. If you see an enemy Light coming around one side, tell your team. If you are an assault and under attack from a Light, don't hit "help", get on your Mic and ask for it also saying WHY you need help (I see some people doing it for odd reasons) and where you are.

One reason that a team on Teamspeak does so well is that they talk. Often "little things" like let's go this way or see that enemy mech over there, let's attack him etc.

A talking team is a winning team. But after you leave the dropzone, keep the talk on battle coms.

[Judah Malganis]

I'm sure it's been touched on, but keep in mind the difference between "surviving" and "avoiding fights". They're not synonymous, despite the way most players behave. If you move with 2-3 teammates and take out an enemy mech and you don't die, that's "survival".

Many players have 2 objective in this game: 1. Seek cover, 2. ???. They just plant themselves behind a rock or nascar to the right hoping to avoid incoming enemies, and it usually ends tragically. You've mentioned you're afraid of fighting, but look at this way: so are they. If you pressure them with firepower, they will crap themselves and fold and run away, exactly like you think you will if you are pressured, so just apply pressure first.

Builds, mechs, maps, etc. almost don't matter. Games are usually won by the team who is more willing to group together and get in their enemies' faces.

Edited by Judah Malganis, 14 September 2018 - 04:37 AM.

[Scyther]

A key part of the issue here, as you stated, is unlearning a big set of pre-conditioned expectations from WoT. 10,000 or so WoT matches can set you up to expect a certain type of battlefield experience... and then MWO turns that on its' head.

In WoT, you can keep a good simulation of most of the map in your head. When you saw Heavy markers in J7 a minute ago you know they are probably within 1 grid of that now. Sight lines are generally better than MWO, the maps are easier to keep track of, the places where you can perform 'maneuver X' are fairly known and stable. (In your case, as you say, X is typically "Shoot from cover with option to retreat to safety")

Your MWO experience will basically toss that out the window. Maps are effectively smaller, and less visible. You rarely have a single primary weapon on a mount that you can shoot from cover with, nor a decent location from which to do so. The battle map is more dynamic (movement of mechs and whether a position is exposed or safe) and less easy to keep track of. Despite the hundreds of tanks in WoT, the mechs in MWO are much more variable factors.

I would approach your issue two ways. First is MWO situational awareness. Spend some time pulling back and getting 'the big picture'. You likely took many many matches in WoT before you were comfortable with your battle awareness of the map/situation. In MWO, you should spend some time in the Academy and test maps... just take in a fairly mobile mech and run all over, get familiar with the map, try to establish about 6 points per map from which you have a decent position (good view, cover options) and practice how to move between those points.

In matches, fit out a mobile mech (speed, JJs, a decent amount of armor) and assume that you aren't going to be a battle asset for a few matches, and just watch the battle. Watch how your team moves out, watch how they clump and spread out as they encounter obstacles/foes. Watch how red mechs start to accumulate around anyone who has stayed visible and in place for too long. Then put some mid-long range weapons on your mobile mech and start practicing firing into battles from the outskirts. A while of this and you will have a new set of map/battle instincts.

The second major thing is to develop a sort of mental insulation between you and the game. Getting sensory overload when in a battle typically happens when your emotional reaction (and expectations) is out of proportion to the situation. No one will die, no one will single you out and shun you forever, you will not suffer any actual pain, you aren't losing the entire match on you own, and Team "YourNationHere" will not be kicked off the podium because you didn't win.

You are a calm, cool, MechWarrior. You have training and skills. You evaluate the battle, choose your target, take a shot. If you're sensible, you can load up a couple heavy weapons, get in position, take your shot, and *leave*. (Almost like WoT!) You don't have to stay on that target, his chunk of armor is gone, let someone else shoot him. Dash out to the flank, re-evaluate the map, pick another red, take another shot, gtfo. It's not exactly "guns a-blazin', guts'n'glory!" but it will allow you to get used to the different battle flow of MWO while still contributing effectively.

Edited by MadBadger, 14 September 2018 - 04:46 AM.

[Asym]

How? The military and real bullets, real LRM's (artillery, mortars and rockets) and real equipment. Every tank from the M48A5 to the M1A.... Every try to hide 70 tons with 800 degree exhaust in the tundra?

The game is no different.... What can be seen can be hit; and, what can be hit can be killed..... It's as simple as that. Or, one of my favorite's: "learn to fight the enemy where they aren't..." which was taught over and over again till real mech pilots "felt it", "dreamed it" and could intuitively "use that theory" without thinking....

War never changes.........the theories are the same as they were two thousand years ago: them whom control the land are the winners.......control the battlespace and you control the land....

If you've never served any military..............well, the learning curve is quite steep. Immerse yourself by reading, watching and then trying, each and every theory.... BE, KNOW and DO........

Edited by Asym, 14 September 2018 - 05:02 AM.

[Ssamout]

Playing ping pong and dissing lrms.

[Mystere]

It all started in a dojo beside Koga Shiritsu Kibogaoka Elementary School in Kōka-shi, Shiga-ken, Japan ...

Oh! Did you mean MWO?

Edited by Mystere, 14 September 2018 - 07:05 AM.

[Dragonporn]

Whow, reading the OP was quite amusing. I wonder how many other players feel that way? Because in face-off, sometimes I see weird behavior, which basically looks like what OP has described.

About fighting, it is coming naturally. Personally I'm very far from being best player of MWO, but I like to believe I generally perform quite alright. From literally first steps combat was very intuitive, though I didn't have much (if any) experience in similar games. Cockpit camera feels super comfortable and immersive for me too.

I have no idea how it is in WoT, never even wanted to try this game, but in MWO, unlike some regular shooters f.e., you shouldn't be 100% concentrated on your opponent, it is most important to keep a cool head and keep track of weapon reloads, heat, targeting info (absolutely crucial part) and your torso to legs position. I absolutely love it that it requires more of a situational awareness to brawl well instead of just having quick reaction and precise response, which also matters of course, but not so fundamentally.

Sure, there are unwinnable situations, where you must focus on doing most damage you can (override and pump out alphas in most damaged mechs and components before you go down), but it is part your bad positioning or just plain bad luck, nothing to do about it. Just to try not to get into the same trap next match. However, that doesn't mean one must play like a coward and avoid engagement at all costs.

I think if it is so stressful for OP, you gonna either try to make work with long range builds and avoid brawls, which is inadvisable, since no matter what build you run, you will often find yourself in face to face fight you can't runaway from, so you absolutely must learn how to brawl, and after learning it in dedicated brawler mechs, you can fight pretty well in other, non-close range builds on similar footing.

Running LRMs exclusively will give you nothing but grief. Sometimes you will get lucky and score a lot, but you will be a burden to carry for your team every single match, and won't learn a thing in this game to be actually useful. Trying out and mastering all possible builds (lurmboating included) is pretty crucial in this game.

So you either can learn, and do enjoy this game enough to try your best, or this game isn't suited for you, and you might wanna try something else, no matter how discouraging that sounds.

Edited by Dragonporn, 14 September 2018 - 09:49 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

timff8, I love your willingness to admit to panic and where your style of peeping comes from, that actually works to explain a lot overall honestly in where many people may come from.

I really appreciate that you recognize that MWO allows for a level of tanking damage and sharing team armor in exchanges etc and want to best utilize those aspects too, but it is hard to say what will help you overcome your panic, other than maybe just jumping in one of the tanky meta brawl mechs and just throwing yourself into in QP, with your only concern in that case being to get a good chance to practice how to take hits while fighting, I recommend a "deadside" splat based mech to start, get used to simple twisting to your deadside, before you get to more complex notions.

SRMs make a great weapon for this as they allow you a lot of room for error while your screen shakes or you hit your torso/arm limits or just plain miss.

Remember though even good tanking means nothing without support really (which is probably why its unpopular in QP), unless you can single handedly exchange higher damage rates while doing it, the damage you take is wasted without your team capitalizing on it. So practicing tanking itself is one thing worth doing, but knowing when to tank is important for actual gameplay tactics when going for the win etc.

[JediPanther]

With a knife mostly. High school was a cut up.

[GuardDogg]

How did I learn to fight as a Mechwarrior? Since the board game. Then Battle-tech on PC. Then MW4 was the real thing. I even became a instructor for Mechwarriors in MW4. Was in a Clan "NukeSylo-Thirteen" and every Sunday (once in awhile), would teach pilots how to use their mechs. Became a good pilot as well with the people I helped teach. When beta was the thing I was using my skills, and doing okay. As the years went on, I noticed my skills are diminishing in QP. Because for one, working with team. Not much infighting, one on one or even one on two. Mostly MWO QP I am encountering is LRMs, sniping, and seeing lots of hiding, team mates running away and leaving a pilot on his/her own against enemy. Nascar is really one of the most pathetic maneuvers pilots do. So when you see both teams do this, the win is just luck, no skill from both sides. No tactical given. Another Not in a clan (team). I have my own clan title, and only me. MWO is not going to be around much after December, due to Mech5.

Edited by GuardDogg, 14 September 2018 - 10:03 PM.

[GeminiWolf]

Well I am ex-military and I took martial arts classes...Oh you mean in game... just play the game and practice what I see other really good players doing.

[Shredmetal]

I don't think I've seen this point being made yet:

Learn to keep firing and staying alive for a few more seconds when all hope is lost. I've bagged quite a few kills that way.

Always turn on your override, better to blow yourself up and deal the last 40-60 points of damage with an alpha. How do you learn that? Dying a lot and figuring out what sort of fire you can take before going down. If you are going to make it out alive, then there's no need for a suicidal final alpha. If you are definitely going to die, just pick the closest mech and keep firing, backing up and torso twisting will keep you alive for maybe 3 extra seconds which are of no use to anybody other than the people on the other side farming damage off you.

I see far too many people panic and backing up, torso twisting and doing everything they can to stay alive and doing absolutely nothing to threaten me. Conversely, I have seen someone back up, hit me with an alpha, kill me, then blow up. Clearly the latter is prefererable.

[Variant1]

I learned to fight by sticking with the team at first to see how battles played out. my fighting developed to a more supporting role, folowing the assaults and going down with them making sure they have an escort to keep off those pesky lights.

judging by your playstyle OP it seems support or longer range snipers might be your thing, i recommend sticking to what you like which leans more of on support, staying with the team but not being the spearhead. Catapults are a good choice if you like to lrm, panther 10p with an ac2 or javlin if you want to play support with lights, archer for heavies and stalkers/awsomes for assaults.

[General Solo]

Each game check End of Round Screen
See which players do good win or lose and try to remember their names.
When they are on your team and you die before them, Spectate them.

Its how I learnt.

This can teach you their mech builds, how they twist and use cover getting FREE trades, how they aim, what grids they use on certain maps and game modes and how they utilise their team among other things.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 15 September 2018 - 02:11 PM.