46 replies to this topic

[FatBabyYoshi]

Hey guys just want to hear your thoughts if you think PGI will implement any new weapons in the future like the Arrow IV, hyper velocity auto cannon and mag shot to the game?

Do you think they will also introduce ultra light , colossal and super heavy mechs?

[Prototelis]

Probably not dude.

Can't balance the weapons we have.

[VonBruinwald]

What we need:
Blazer
Light ACs
X-Pulses

What we want:
Bombast Laser
Plasma Rifles
HVAC
MagShot/AP Gauss
MML's

What we'll never see:
TSEMP
Longtom
Plasma Cannons
HAGs
Arrow IV
Ammo Switching
Melee
Quads

[FupDup]

VonBruinwald, on 09 September 2018 - 11:07 AM, said:

What we need:
X-Pulses

Why are X-Pulse Lasers in the "need" category?

And HVAC's definitely don't belong in "want," they're way too heavy for what they do. The only one that might be worth considering is the HVAC/10, but even that is pushing it (depending on how high the heat is and stuff like that). The HVAC/2 and 5 are useless unless PGI gives them much faster cooldowns to compensate for higher tonnage (seriously 12 tons for the HVAC/5 is stupid), but then that risks obsoleting the other ACs.

Also I think HAGs and Plasma Cannons are very possible.

Edited by FupDup, 09 September 2018 - 11:15 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

FupDup, on 09 September 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

Why are X-Pulse Lasers in the "need" category?

And HVAC's definitely don't belong in "want," they're way too heavy for what they do. The only one that might be worth considering is the HVAC/10, but even that is pushing it (depending on how high the heat is and stuff like that). The HVAC/2 and 5 are useless unless PGI gives them much faster cooldowns to compensate for higher tonnage (seriously 12 tons for the HVAC/5 is stupid), but then that risks obsoleting the other ACs.

Also I think HAGs and Plasma Cannons are very possible.

X-pulses fall under the "closer to clan stats" umbrella.
I want HVAC's! And yeah, the smaller calibres kinda suck but I'd still make use of them, well the 5's anyway.
Plasma cannons can effectively stun lock an opponent from relatively safe range, same thing with TSEMPS.
HAG's will likely require new game mechanics, (unless they make them an LBX-Gauss which means they could give the IS Silver Bullets for parity)

[FupDup]

VonBruinwald, on 09 September 2018 - 11:24 AM, said:

X-pulses fall under the "closer to clan stats" umbrella.

I want HVAC's! And yeah, the smaller calibres kinda suck but I'd still make use of them, well the 5's anyway.
Plasma cannons can effectively stun lock an opponent from relatively safe range, same thing with TSEMPS.
HAG's will likely require new game mechanics, (unless they make them an LBX-Gauss which means they could give the IS Silver Bullets for parity)

HAGs are closer to burst-fire ACs or even RACs/MGs than LBX (they're multi-projectile but not a buckshot). Plasma Cannons are basically just ER Flamers that need ammo. I definitely hope we never see TSEMP because that's not just heat, that's an outright forced shutdown (Flamers in MWO at least give you 10% heat threshold to work with).

X-Pulse probably won't be all that great. You get the same range as IS Standard Lasers, but with way more heat and probably a longer cooldown (judging by ER Lasers vs. STD Lasers balancing). They'd probably need more than STD Laser range to be worthwhile.

[JediPanther]

VonBruinwald, on 09 September 2018 - 11:07 AM, said:

What we need:
Blazer
Light ACs
X-Pulses

What we want:
Bombast Laser
Plasma Rifles
HVAC
MagShot/AP Gauss
MML's

What we'll never see:
TSEMP
Longtom
Plasma Cannons
HAGs
Arrow IV
Ammo Switching
Melee
Quads

I'd hate to see pgi's version of all this and they did do their version of the long tom or did you forget how easily abused it was?

[Khobai]

ARROWIV should definitely be added to the game. And could be added quite easily as a hardwired weapon system on the Catapult-C3 and Naga.

FupDup, on 09 September 2018 - 11:31 AM, said:

HAGs are closer to burst-fire ACs or even RACs/MGs than LBX (they're multi-projectile but not a buckshot)

in tabletop they work the same as LBX. It even says it uses cluster munitions. You roll on the cluster hits table and then roll a seperate location for each cluster. The only difference is it does 5 point clusters instead of 1 point clusters to save time.

Also it has a modifier to its cluster roll depending on the range. More clusters hit at short range than long range. Which implies a buckshot cone style spread pattern.

HAG is like burst-fire LBX basically.

I imagine a HAG40 would charge up like a gauss then fire an LBX10 style spread four times in rapid succession.


Also LBX should fire in a cylinder instead of a cone. Because LBX's spread pattern doesnt degrade over range like the HAG's does. LBX hits with the same number of clusters regardless of range.

Edited by Khobai, 09 September 2018 - 12:47 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 09 September 2018 - 12:36 PM, said:

in tabletop they work the same as LBX. It even says it uses cluster munitions. You roll on the cluster hits table and then roll a seperate location for each cluster. The only difference is it does 5 point clusters instead of 1 point clusters to save time.

Also it has a modifier to its cluster roll depending on the range. More clusters hit at short range than long range. Which implies a buckshot style spread pattern.

HAG is like burst-fire LBX basically.

I imagine a HAG40 would charge up like a gauss then fire an LBX10 style spread four times in rapid succession.

Also LBX should fire in a cylinder instead of a cone. Because LBX's spread pattern doesnt degrade over range like the HAG's does.

The TechManual description compares it to a "Rotary Gauss." Sarna also describes it this way, " The resulting high rate of fire, akin almost to Rotary Autocannons..."

The game rules for splitting up the damage into multiple parts is to both simulate the continuous firing causing a spread (as opposed to a single "PPFLD" chunk of damage) and also prevent them from being bonkers OP (HAG 40 being PPFLD would be instant ggclose against anything ever). HAGs would most likely need to have a cone of fire mechanic for balancing, but they should not be turned into a stupid shotgun.

Besides descriptions, making HAGs work like a giant MG or RAC instead of LBX lets the Silver Bullet Gauss actually be unique.

Edited by FupDup, 09 September 2018 - 12:54 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

The TechManual description compares it to a "Rotary Gauss." Sarna also describes it this way, " The resulting high rate of fire, akin almost to Rotary Autocannons..."

yeah its "high rate of fire" is akin almost to an RAC

but it still fires cluster munitions

[Toothless]

Different colored lasers.

#lostech
#PGIislazyas

[CanadianCyrus]

I don't know why people are advocating for the Binary Laser Canon over the Bombast Laser. The Bombast Laser is superior in every way.

Same Range and Damage (Bombast Laser damage ramps up from 7 to 12) but the Blaser is 2 tons heavier (9 tons) and takes up 4 slots vs 3 slots for the Bombast Laser which is lighter at 7 tons. Heat wise the Blaser generates 16 heat for 12 damage and the Bombast generates anywhere from 7 to 12 heat based on the equivalent damage.

Less heat, less tonnage, less slots, same damage, and same range. The Bombast Laser is the better pick between the two if PGI were only going to add one of the two.

Edited by Funzo, 09 September 2018 - 01:54 PM.

[FupDup]

Funzo, on 09 September 2018 - 01:53 PM, said:

I don't know why people are advocating for the Binary Laser Canon over the Bombast Laser. The Bombast Laser is superior in every way.

Same Range and Damage (Bombast Laser damage ramps up from 7 to 12) but the Blaser is 2 tons heavier (9 tons) and takes up 4 slots vs 3 slots for the Bombast Laser which is lighter at 7 tons. Heat wise the Blaser generates 16 heat for 12 damage and the Bombast generates anywhere from 7 to 12 heat based on the equivalent damage.

Less heat, less tonnage, less slots, same damage, and same range. The Bombast Laser is the better pick between the two if PGI were only gonna add one of the two.

Bombast Laser is a charge-up weapon, while the Blazer is a more "traditional" type of laser. In terms of MWO mechanics I guess the Bombast could be like a "Swiss Army Knife" laser that could mimic a small or medium laser if it's not charged up very much (to finish off a weak target or if you're at the top of the heat threshold), giving you the functionality of all three normal laser types in one package at the cost of tonnage. The Blazer meanwhile is more akin to a beefed-up Large Laser.

Also PGI can and will modify the exact damage/heat values like they did for all other energy weapons.

A lot of it is because of just how cool the name Binary Laser Cannon sounds. It's like the kind of thing an anime character shouts before unleashing their ultimate attack and assuming their final form.

Edited by FupDup, 09 September 2018 - 02:05 PM.

[FLG 01]

Funzo, on 09 September 2018 - 01:53 PM, said:

Heat wise the Blaser generates 16 heat for 12 damage

MWO is not using TT stats when it comes to lasers. PGI has changed all the lasers to generate more damage than heat, sometimes quite significantly so. I don't see why the Binary Laser Cannon would be the first not to benefit from that treatment.

It's an uncomplicated, stronger LL which might provide a good counterpart to the HLL. Less powerful overall, but with shorter burn duration.

[CanadianCyrus]

FLG 01, on 09 September 2018 - 02:15 PM, said:

MWO is not using TT stats when it comes to lasers. PGI has changed all the lasers to generate more damage than heat, sometimes quite significantly so. I don't see why the Binary Laser Cannon would be the first not to benefit from that treatment.

It's an uncomplicated, stronger LL which might provide a good counterpart to the HLL. Less powerful overall, but with shorter burn duration.

It's 9 tons and 4 slots. PGI might be willing to fudge #s a bit, but since people have complained from the get go about weapon balance, I can infer that PGI won't radically redesign weapons, otherwise the base IS and Clan weapon systems would be much closer to parity.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 09 September 2018 - 12:36 PM, said:

ARROWIV should definitely be added to the game. And could be added quite easily as a hardwired weapon system on the Catapult-C3 and Naga.



in tabletop they work the same as LBX. It even says it uses cluster munitions. You roll on the cluster hits table and then roll a seperate location for each cluster. The only difference is it does 5 point clusters instead of 1 point clusters to save time.

Using cluster hits table doesn't make it a shotgun, it just makes it count as separate projectiles.

The most likely implementation of HAGs in MWO would fire bursts of between four and eight 5-damage rounds at 2,000 m/s after a charge-up time, with spread like RACs.

The only actual shotgun-Gauss is the Silver Bullet.

Funzo, on 09 September 2018 - 02:26 PM, said:

It's 9 tons and 4 slots. PGI might be willing to fudge #s a bit, but since people have complained from the get go about weapon balance, I can infer that PGI won't radically redesign weapons, otherwise the base IS and Clan weapon systems would be much closer to parity.

They flipped HLL stats, they can do the same for the BLazer. 16 damage for 12 or 13 heat is perfectly in-line with how weapons have typically been implemented in MWO.

[Ted Wayz]

FatBabyYoshi, on 09 September 2018 - 10:37 AM, said:

Hey guys just want to hear your thoughts if you think PGI will implement any new weapons in the future like the Arrow IV, hyper velocity auto cannon and mag shot to the game?

Do you think they will also introduce ultra light , colossal and super heavy mechs?

When the monthly income starts to go down yes to all.

Without any care to balance because why start now? Especially when it is so easy to get the community to chase its tail by constantly tweeking weapons and getting us to go after each other.

[LordNothing]

Prototelis, on 09 September 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

Probably not dude.

Can't balance the weapons we have.

that was the pre civil war logic. yet the new weapons re-funned the game all be it until we all got bored with the new stuff again. that said i doubt pgi will do it again, apparently fun is bad.

[LordNothing]

FupDup, on 09 September 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

Why are X-Pulse Lasers in the "need" category?

because is needs a laser option that is equivalent to the clan heavies. meanwhile the clan is hurting for new ballistics, so hags. you know the stuff civil war didnt do.

[Battlemaster56]

No proto ac love?