26 replies to this topic

[Nesutizale]

Comming back from a pause of MWO I noticed something...PGI dosn't seam to use its own rules of how they "translate" the boardgame to the PC quite consistantly.

TL:DR
Boardgame - Long range = Harder to hit -> PGI ok we give weapons a falloff
Boardgame - Min range = Harder to hit -> PGI ok we give them no damage at all
=> Shouldn't it be the same in both cases? Giveing them falloff at long range AND min range.
=> Also give all weapons their min range back, like the AC2.

In the boardgame, the further away a target is the harder it is to hit. PGI translated that with a damage falloff for weapons.
On the other hand there is minimal range. In the boardgame the closer a target got to a mech with weapons that had minimal range, the harder it was to hit. PGI translated that with no damage at all at minimal range.

That seams a bit off to me. Also there are some weapons who miss their minimal range entirly like the AC2.

What I would like to see is that PGI is beeing consistant in giveing weapons with minimal range a falloff instead of no damage at all.
Sure the falloff has to be very strong so that at point blank damage is down to 0 points but it would fit much better I think to have the same rules applied to both sides of the spectrum.

What are your thoughts on this?

[Snowbluff]

I wish weapons didn't fire under minimum range as a safety feature.

[Spheroid]

It did have a falloff, the result was not sufficiently punitive under 90m. Why further punish snub and ER PPC? Don't they need all the help they can get?

You act like current setup on range was not thought out process it most certainly was with various iterations.

[Thorqemada]

In the Literature IS LRM can be fired below min range but the Pilots needs to disable the safety measures that prevent them from detonating accidentaly damaging the own Mech for example.

[Nesutizale]

@Spheroid
Snub- and ER-PPC don't have a minimal range so they wouldn't be affected. They are correct in the game as they are.
Weapons that are unregular are for example AC2+5, ATM and LRM.

@Thorqemada
That would be awesome if we could have some mechanic like that. Fire you LRM, PPC, AC to close and you risk it blowing up in your face...and you overwrite like you do with heat.

[Tarl Cabot]

Reversed splash damage...what if it was like that for most weapons.. hahaha.. lights would not be facehug as often...

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 12 September 2018 - 04:52 PM.

[Nesutizale]

Reverse? I would go the other way. The closer you get the more your weapons scatter the damage all over the enemy.

[justcallme A S H]

Nesutizale, on 12 September 2018 - 08:14 AM, said:

boardgame

Boardgame
Boardgame
boardgame
What are your thoughts on this?

This isn't a boardgame?

This is a PC online FPS.

Some things should not translate.

[LordNothing]

splash damage is a damn fun mechanic, its a shame pgi is so afraid of it. srms, streaks, mrms, lrms, ppcs (real splash, not that bs they do with the clan erppc), arrow iv, most guns, and on and on and on. dont believe me play living legends.

justcallme A S H, on 12 September 2018 - 10:45 PM, said:

This isn't a boardgame?

This is a PC online FPS.

Some things should not translate.

he does make a good point. seems inconsistency is the i in pgi. and shooter games have tried and true mechanics that would solve all our problems and be like tt at the same time, but pgi did it their way. so we have lazy mechanics instead.

[Nesutizale]

Even if I take out the TT part it dosn't make sense.

Long range -> harder to hit = falloff
Minimal range -> harder to hit = no damage

That in itself dosn't make sense. Why is the same mechanic that should be simulated translated differently? Both should be = falloff damage.

And about what Lordnothing said...yes many games solved this problem in ways that are better then what PGI offers. So when they at least could be consistand with their own rules/gamedesign that would be nice.

[LordNothing]

Thorqemada, on 12 September 2018 - 08:56 AM, said:

In the Literature IS LRM can be fired below min range but the Pilots needs to disable the safety measures that prevent them from detonating accidentaly damaging the own Mech for example.

see this is the kind of thought process i like. solve problem with immersive feature.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Nesutizale, on 12 September 2018 - 08:14 AM, said:

Comming back from a pause of MWO I noticed something...PGI dosn't seam to use its own rules of how they "translate" the boardgame to the PC quite consistantly.

TL:DR
Boardgame - Long range = Harder to hit -> PGI ok we give weapons a falloff
Boardgame - Min range = Harder to hit -> PGI ok we give them no damage at all
=> Shouldn't it be the same in both cases? Giveing them falloff at long range AND min range.
=> Also give all weapons their min range back, like the AC2.

In the boardgame, the further away a target is the harder it is to hit. PGI translated that with a damage falloff for weapons.
On the other hand there is minimal range. In the boardgame the closer a target got to a mech with weapons that had minimal range, the harder it was to hit. PGI translated that with no damage at all at minimal range.

That seams a bit off to me. Also there are some weapons who miss their minimal range entirly like the AC2.

What I would like to see is that PGI is beeing consistant in giveing weapons with minimal range a falloff instead of no damage at all.
Sure the falloff has to be very strong so that at point blank damage is down to 0 points but it would fit much better I think to have the same rules applied to both sides of the spectrum.

What are your thoughts on this?

and by Board Game a Pilot can not aim to a Single Hitzone by a Shutdown Mech 30m away (the BG Pilots more bad as T 5 Players thats not can hit a 3x3m Hitzone in 100m with 60kmh) ...and we have no Pilot injurys (ok you could simulate by the girlfriend misses a juicy slap in the face with each hit or a punch in cockpit hits)...no Falling by to high Damage , we can not lay down or hold a Weapon arm over covers or around a corner...we have no Aerospacefighters thats bombing a Hatchetman in the Ground, no Thunder lRMs with Mines (come on Brawler with you axe)

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 13 September 2018 - 02:34 AM.

[Nesutizale]

Yes not everything from the TT can be done or should be, thats not what I am asking for. What I am asking for is that PGI should be consistend with their own stuff.

Long range = Harder to hit = falloff
minimal range = Harder to hit = no damage
and then we just drop minimal range for 2 weapons but not all of them?

That isn't consistant in itself. It should either be all weapons have a falloff, no damage or we drop minimal range all together.

PS: I looked up Aimed shot and the rules say: "When firing on an immobile Mech, the attacking player can make an aimed shot by naming a target location."
I think its in the older rules that say that you can only target the left, right, upper or lower side/torso of a mech.

Pilot injurys could be easly done, there are games that do it by visual effects or effecting your aim.
Heat penaltys, something I miss most, could also be done by slowing you down, effecting your aim and stuff.

But I am not even asking for that. Just that the game in itsself is more consistant.

Edited by Nesutizale, 13 September 2018 - 03:38 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

harder to hit ...yes ..in TT all Mechs have by 12 m Full cover ...here all many to big sized (like HBS) Black knight like a Atlas now with 18 m (TT 16m) ...and with bigger Size Mechs slower in animations ...smaller mechs = more steps for same range/Time and the Ranges from TT all not real, all for playing with Miniatures of a small table in 1/285...by firefights over 2000m against 1000m the Targets harder to hit..and no weapons or Cockpiteffects by Heat ...flickering Cursors , lost Cursors by CP hits , Blood effects , mechs not falling or strumbling ...to hard for PGI like IK , Collisionsmodels or programming a AI or build a FP with Tactical and strategical Parts

minimal virable Product

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 13 September 2018 - 07:17 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

I happen to agree, why keep the minimum range of PPC's but not the minimum range with long range Auto canon

[MrXanthios]

Tarl Cabot, on 12 September 2018 - 04:37 PM, said:

Reversed splash damage...what if it was like that for most weapons.. hahaha.. lights would not be facehug as often...

I would settle for a collision damage proportioned to the mech tonnage and size, so those 20 ton piranhas would automatically start popping torsos and stuff when they hug an atlas, and that would be something realistic at least.

[Variant1]

So basically lets make ac2 even less used then before right?
board game is awful to copy its rules word for word. infact those rules themselves make no sense except for lrms.

I woulda hapily have ppcs min range removed if they also nerf heat and velocity to compensate for those changes. As for lrms as long as they can fire indirectly they will keep that min range.

[Stinger554]

Variant1, on 13 September 2018 - 11:20 AM, said:

I woulda hapily have ppcs min range removed if they also nerf heat and velocity to compensate for those changes.

Why? The PPC is already too hot to use as a brawl weapon no one in there right mind will try to use it as such.

Edited by Stinger554, 13 September 2018 - 12:52 PM.

[Mystere]

justcallme A S H, on 12 September 2018 - 10:45 PM, said:

This isn't a boardgame?

This is a PC online FPS.

Some things should not translate.

That's a cheap answer.

The correct answer is to find the underlying principle abstracted by the board game mechanics (if any) and translate that to something more suitable for an FPS.

[Tarl Cabot]

MrXanthios, on 13 September 2018 - 08:21 AM, said:

I would settle for a collision damage proportioned to the mech tonnage and size, so those 20 ton piranhas would automatically start popping torsos and stuff when they hug an atlas, and that would be something realistic at least.

I want the ability to kick...have dreams of PGI incorporating that into the game then have many light pilots NOT read the patch notes.. KICK which shatters or severely damages a light/med leg and also sends it 10 meters away from point of contact while being stunned for a few seconds...