198 replies to this topic

[Bloodwitch]

xVLFBERHxT, on 19 September 2018 - 02:57 AM, said:

Piranha & MG Mistlynx. At this point MWO stopped to be a battletech game. A light mech (specialy an anti infantry light mech) should never take an Assault 1v1.

Do i have to remind you of Grayson Carlyle who took out a Battle'mech by heatshot with an HMG mounted on an Jeep?

Appogee, on 19 September 2018 - 05:20 AM, said:

Here's what really happened with the Piranha...

It's not only that, Clans have been desperate for a functional lightweight to build their dropdecks. The limited dropweight has basically nullified the advantage of having an assault in the deck since it always compromised the deck.

A Mist-Lynx can simply not pull the differenced of a light/assault compared to heavy/heavy deck.
Cheetah too took a huge blow with small pulse nerf.
We don't even talk about the jenner.

The Pir is outclassing both with weight to performance ratio. Not saying peoplee can not make Lynx and Cheetah work, but even if, it's 5 to 10 tons more, and for a clan deck every ton counts.

Piranha is pretty much the only real option to free up tonage for the deck.

Edited by Kunato Developments, 19 September 2018 - 05:39 AM.

[Jonathan8883]

They just nerfed Streaks and all other short-ranged lock-on missiles when used against fast-moving mechs last month. What did you think would happen?

[xVLFBERHxT]

Kunato Developments, on 19 September 2018 - 05:26 AM, said:

Do i have to remind you of Grayson Carlyle who took out a Battle'mech by heatshot with an HMG mounted on an Jeep?

Was That an assault mech? Was that a headshot or a sidetorso? That happend every fight? Those examples are story driven events and should not happend regularly. Go on and twist it. We all know what I meant.

[KodiakGW]

The Anni, Bushy, Assassin, Artic Wolf, HBR, and slews of other mechs are monsters on the battlefield....

...in the right hands.

I’ve found many assault pilots have no clue how to drive them properly. They think “I’ve got all this firepower. I should do really well, right?” Then allow themselves to be the arse end of a NASCAR, which is the real problem. Most of the time when I drive a PIR, I don’t get the kill. I strip the back armor with lasers, get a bit of internal damage with MGs, and get the mech turned around. If I have decent teammates that round, they end up killing the mech. I can’t begin to tell you how many Lurm boats owe their kill to me. All those machine guns everyone is complaining about are crap against armor. Maybe if you find yourself being killed by PIRs through the back all the time, load 20+ points of armor on your back.

Also, maybe if streaks were effective against anything over 25 tons, people would start taking them more often. Nothing like firing 3xSSRM6 at a cored mech, and watch over half of them hit everywhere but the CT I had targeted when I pulled the trigger.

[K O Z A K]

Peace2U, on 18 September 2018 - 10:45 PM, said:

I'm not here to ***** about the piranha being Over Powered

*writes a long post about piranha being over powered*

The most OP thing about piranhas is the average players inability to hit anything more challenging than a stationary atlas at 300m

They are good compared to other lights because most other lights suck. They have strong firepower but are hard to use for most people because holding MGs on target while running 150 kph isn't easy. If you slow down/stop to aim you are always risking getting one shotted if anyone on the enemy team can aim. At the end of the day their greatest strength is the enemy teams lack of skill

[Appogee]

Kunato Developments, on 19 September 2018 - 05:26 AM, said:

It's not only that, Clans have been desperate for a functional lightweight to build their dropdecks. ...
Piranha is pretty much the only real option to free up tonage for the deck.

Yeah I decided not to cover that aspect of the Piranha on the basis that my post was getting too long.

But as we have all experienced, Piranha does a lot more than free up tonnage in our Clan Decks. Dropping a couple of Piranhas in any wave of a FP match quickly cleans up any damaged enemy Heavies or Assaults. It's an incredibly potent Mech for the Clans.

Piranha is sometimes described - including by our balance overlord Chris - as a 'glass cannon'. But it's much better than that. A Piranha with close to max engine is quite hard to hit, especially when it drops in the first few waves, against heavier and less agile Mechs that tend to carry lasers and ballistics.

But PGI are unaware of this because they don't play FP... and don't even QP anywhere near as often as the rest of us.

[Bloodwitch]

xVLFBERHxT, on 19 September 2018 - 05:41 AM, said:

Was That an assault mech? Was that a headshot or a sidetorso? That happend every fight? Those examples are story driven events and should not happend regularly. Go on and twist it. We all know what I meant.

Are you implying the great Grayson Death Carlyle had any sort of plot armor or whatsoever? Heresy!

[DarthHias]

Yawn. I come back after one and a half years of absence and again a "plz nerf *insert light mech of choice* pgi"
Nice to see some things never change

[Vorpal Puppy]

The PIR is like a very finely crafted blade, whereas most other lights in this game are just a simple knife. In unskilled hands (like mine), it really doesn't make that much of a difference versus say a myst lynx or a cheetah. In skilled hands, the mech has a much higher performance ceiling versus its "average" than any other mech.

Take the following scenario - an elite pilot in an assault mech is dropped into a 1 on 2 match against 2 average level players in the same assault mech. He may win, but if the 2 average players stick together and focus fire, they have a decent chance of taking him down. Even if they fail, the elite pilot will most likely be significantly damaged.
Put an elite piranha pilot in the same scenario (again, opponents have equivalent PIR mechs). I would wager he destroys the 2 average pilots at a much higher rate than the assault pilot.
The machine guns are not the biggest issue. Its the mechs speed and agility, combined with the heatless firepower that is the issue. Nerf its agility, and you will dull the blade.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

It's a katana, sharp but brittle.

[Weeny Machine]

Peace2U, on 18 September 2018 - 10:45 PM, said:

I'm not here to ***** about the piranha being Over Powered.
Just trying to figure out what the developers had in mind for this little guy.

It's very confusing to see them running around sawing mechs 5 times their weight down in mere seconds, while assaults are hammering guys with all their firepower and getting less kills???
Was it intentional on their part to allow 12 weapon hard points to fire consecutively with very little heat penalty on such a small and quick mech, so that the Clans would have a better close range option against I.S. mechs?
And to top it off, if the little guy gets close enough to do some leg humping, the larger mechs cannot even see them to shoot back!

I always thought that a light mech was designed for scouting and harassing heavier opponents, not as a close range assassin.
With their crazy high D.P.S., they are the leading killers on the battlefield.

I have witnessed several occasions where a piranha was spotted moving towards the opposing team, and they withdrew from their position in fear of the little guy getting in range.
(sorry to say it was actually funny to watch - If Mr. Spock saw this his right eyebrow would raise)

Again, this is not a rant, but I have seen it happen so often it makes me wonder if this is by design.
I'm not talking about balance, or even fairness, I just want to make sense of it.

I encourage anyone with a counterpoint to discuss this, as I am mystified about it, and would like a logical explanation.
Peace

The problem is not only the PIR. The main problem is that lights mechs have been nerfed in general, especially 35t mechs, and are way behind the other classes.
So, people who still play lights are those who want a challenge and like the class. Chances are high that the light pilot therefore outskills you. Especially when you are used to easy mode (compared to lights) weight classes like heavies which really have it all.

The PIR-1 is really not such a problem as you make it out to be. It is a first-rate potato killer, however. Maybe that's the issue some peeps have with those mechs

[xVLFBERHxT]

Lights should be bad. They are entry level mechs.

[Kalleballe]

Nerf lights and you also give ppl less reason to take mediums to counter them.

[Weeny Machine]

xVLFBERHxT, on 19 September 2018 - 06:36 AM, said:

Lights should be bad. They are entry level mechs.

True in the Battletech universe you learn the rope by using lights. In MWO entry mechs are heavies: firepower which rivals assault firepower, fast enough to re-position relatively well, agility like a fat weaponized and armoured prima ballerina so that lights aren't a problem

[kf envy]

Shadowomega1, on 19 September 2018 - 03:49 AM, said:

To be fair those Jeeps didn't have 25mm Bushmaster autocannons, which is pretty much what a mech's machine gun is.

last I looked at my books and core books the MGs are not 25mm bushmasters that's more in the AC2 range weapon group the MGs are in the 50cal range and MGs do way more damage to boots on the ground then AC2s

[Jables McBarty]

DarthHias, on 19 September 2018 - 05:58 AM, said:

Yawn. I come back after one and a half years of absence and again a "plz nerf *insert light mech of choice* pgi"
Nice to see some things never change

Same thing here.

It's been 18 months since I visited the Forums and it's the exact same litany of Lurms/lights OP complaints as before.

xVLFBERHxT, on 19 September 2018 - 06:36 AM, said:

Lights should be bad. They are entry level mechs.

And now we all know we can disregard your opinion on this topic.

Next.

[aardappelianen]

oh hey its this same thread once again, how come we never talk about the flea?
i get the feeling these threads are just smokescreens from innersphere apologists

Edited by aardappelianen, 19 September 2018 - 07:16 AM.

[thievingmagpi]

1) aim

2) read map

3) pay attention to comms

4) teamwork

Piranha deleted



The fact that a lot/many/most players don't do 1-4 is the reason why mg PIRs have such an open license to shred.


Now, I mained PIR-1s pretty much since their release. However, I'm well aware of, and have been a vocal critic of their ability to punch up in skill. A player of my average skill level should generally not be able to perform in such a manner. I fully admit that. None of my stats are as good as my PIR.

And yes, when piloting heavier mechs I've been annoyed by, killed by and seen my team wiped by Piranhas. But you know why that happens?

1) no one can aim (myself included lul). PIRs have what like.. >20 armour in their st?

2) team not looking at targets on map

3) no one listening to comms

4) team all split up. no two mechs within 100m of each other. assaults capping. yolo lights throwing the match in the first 30 seconds. xl lrm atlases.

this is why PIRs can run amok more easily than just about any other chassis. they exploit weaknesses and poor teamplay better than any other mech. it also helps that yes, they can fully face tank heavies and assaults with their dps.


Again, as someone who mained mg piranhas and is pretty average as a pilot overall, I'd tend to agree they're a little bit OP.

However, and this is important, that amount of OP quickly disappears when steps 1-4 are taken. Players continually want to ignore those steps. People just refuse to learn. This is a team game. Play like it.

My Piranha is deleted instantly by an alpha from an assualt, heavy or some mediums. My Piranha runs away as soon as I see a wolfhound, urbie, or TDK looking my way.

Yes, perhaps Piranhas are punching above their "skill". Yes, they shouldn't be necessarily capable of such performance, but it's not entirely their fault.

I watched probably 6 people on my team peel out, chase and try to 1v1 Da Red in his Wolfhound, who is not only one of the best pilots in the game, but also probably the best Wolfhound pilot out there. They all died. 1 by 1, precisely as I predicted (and tried to suggest avoiding) This is why average players in Piranhas can pull 1k and 6 kills. Should it be that easy to do that?

Probably not. But the low level of skill and awareness demonstrated by so many people isn't making it easy to disentangle where the "punching up" ends and where the "too many easy targets" starts.

Edited by thievingmagpi, 19 September 2018 - 07:23 AM.

[xVLFBERHxT]

Jables McBarty, on 19 September 2018 - 07:09 AM, said:

Same thing here.

It's been 18 months since I visited the Forums and it's the exact same litany of Lurms/lights OP complaints as before.



And now we all know we can disregard your opinion on this topic.

Next.

Haha I got ya man!

[Der Geisterbaer]

thievingmagpi, on 19 September 2018 - 07:18 AM, said:

PIRs have what like.. >20 armour in their st?

A total of 25 points (front plus rear) on the side torsos with max number of armor nodes in the survical tree.