32 replies to this topic

[Shifty McSwift]

cougurt, on 20 September 2018 - 03:21 AM, said:

you'd be better served examining what you're doing to end up in situations that warrant it.

You also went straight for the "you're doing it wrong" aka "you're a noob" angle as above. Which has very little do with the notion that there's a difference being oneshot in the back or not.

[Aramuside]

tutzdes, on 20 September 2018 - 04:47 AM, said:

The post, you are replying to was about one-shots from behind. Dual ERPPC is only able to one-shot (some) lights. To kill an assault you need to hit the same spot with this tiny 20 damage alpha 3-4 times in a row.

In case you are surrounded by multiple enemies, you're screwed rear armor or not.

He is a much better player than you, according to the well-known list, and his opinion about rear armor is more in-line with my own experience. There were a lot more situations where I'd like to have extra 10 front armor than extra 10 back armor, by far so. Rear armor is here as a one-time protective layer, which prevents mech from losing the internals from arty strike, one alpha from locust, etc. If you put 20 back armor in your mech and not ***-tanking hard every match it is a weight (and front torso durability) wasted.

Lights? I was in a 2 HG Victor if you meant that to me...

Coincidentally I killed multiple lights with a dual ER PPC Cougar-H on Tuesday so I'm not sure what that bit was about. I just wasn't brawling them but standing off firing at them attacking my team.

On the back armour bit I totally agree particularly as I tend to play brawlers to mid range so that front armour is far more important.

On Jarls list - its fairly inaccurate in some cases so unless you know the persons playstyle its hard to extrapolate fairly from it. I know it wasn't aimed at me but I'll use myself as an example. I play a LOT of matches in FW or in competitive practice and until this month I haven't played QP for maybe a year. or as a contrast a friend of mine played a lot of Solaris in specific solaris meta mechs and has an insane win rate there... which totally distorts his overall stats. It also doesn't reflect group vs solo etc. Its an amusing read though.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Christophe Ivanov, on 19 September 2018 - 03:05 PM, said:

if you ask me, your better off shooting it's legs than trying to core a Assault that has full armor. If one so happens to be ready to be cored, anyone could actually bag one.

one leg by a assault has the same Hitpoints like the Center ...seeing many lights thats try that and dies ...thats only good against potatoes thats ignored all behind..a Locust running behind a Direwolf thats all ignored (was 11 vs 11) and after 30 seconds her has destroy the first Leg , and NOW the Direpilot t turn around and killed the Locust now in on Salvo

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 20 September 2018 - 07:11 AM.

[FupDup]

For the rear armor debate here's a challenge for you to try.

Every time you die from rear damage, increase your rear armor by +1.

Every time you die from frontal damage, increase your frontal armor by +1.

Do this for at least 20-30 matches and keep track of what changes you've been making.

[Prototelis]

Or you could just develop the habit of backing up and twisting as soon as you get the rear hit indicator.

Also helps if you pay a little attention and target spot the lights as they are flanking. Only a few light pilots are patient enough to flank outside of radar range. Pay attention, mark them, call them out with their letter designation, chassis, location,and the direction they are likely heading.

There are only a few places on each map that engagements typically take place, and therefore only a few ways to flank those positions. See 8 Doritos, start scanning for the other 4 between trades.

[Kubernetes]

Shifty McSwift, on 20 September 2018 - 05:37 AM, said:

You also went straight for the "you're doing it wrong" aka "you're a noob" angle as above. Which has very little do with the notion that there's a difference being oneshot in the back or not.

You are a noob compared to him. My experience is similar to his; the max rear armor I run is 8 on my Annie's (because they're so damn sluggish). Most other assaults/heavies run 4-6. There was a long stretch a few years back when I ran 0 or 1 back armor (ended that because strikes would crit out weapons too easily).

Maybe if you turned on VOIP you could hear teammates warning you about stalking lights and you could run reasonable back armor. Just a thought.

Edited by Kubernetes, 20 September 2018 - 01:37 PM.

[Jables McBarty]

Usagi Sakura, on 19 September 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

How do I core an Assault Mech with three shots from a small laser and machine gun when the Assault has full armor? I too would like to do this as unable to core anything with over a dozen direct fire advanced zoom mark 4 Targeting computer heavy medium laser and skill tree to match.

Please send instructions.

Honest answer, you may be out of range. Med Heavy Laser even w/ Mark 4 is still hardly pushing 300m/600m optimal/effective range. If you are using Adv Zoom at all like I would - from outside 500m - then you'd be barely scratching the armor. Consider swapping out the HMLs for some ERML or HLL/ERLLs, or dropping the Adv Zoom and getting closer.

[JediPanther]

Always amusing when you find >10 armor assaults claim they are so good yet my lights can drop them easily in qp. As for me if you find me in an assault you know it's one of the worst combinations in the game and a giant free kill sign. There's a lot of good reasons why assaults are my worst and least played class. Mostly due to old hardware and the fact they are slugs compared to my normal 100kph or faster mechs.

[Nightbird]

FupDup, on 20 September 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

For the rear armor debate here's a challenge for you to try.

Every time you die from rear damage, increase your rear armor by +1.

Every time you die from frontal damage, increase your frontal armor by +1.

Do this for at least 20-30 matches and keep track of what changes you've been making.

If I did this my back armor would be 0 lol I put 2 points there at least

[GoatHILL]

If you need advanced zoom for med lasers you are either too far away or a horrible shot/aim. I believe that's the area you should work on.

[aardappelianen]

Lmao armor on the back is for cowards! None of my mechs have even a single point of armor on the back even though some could have their backs shot from the front
I only get killed by back shots when my team has folded and i get overrun, otherwise if some mech manages to take my back it deserves the kill

[Lykaon]

Snowbluff, on 19 September 2018 - 03:43 PM, said:

As a light pilot, running into a mech with more than 5 back armor usually means they're as good as dead anyway, even though I've been foiled by their scrubbiness momentarily.

I load up 14 rear armor on all torsos (90+ ton chassis). The purpose for this is generally this is enough armor not be breached by one opening salvo so I can actually react before MGs crit out my payload.

All you need is enough time to either counter rotate the light or put your back to something to shield it. A smart light pilot will pull out of a fight when the assault mech can actually manuver defensively.

[Mister Maf]

For me the mechs that need the most rear armor are my medium flankers like my Centurions and Black Lanner which use their speed to bring medium chassis firepower to an inconvenient location on the enemy's rear arc and then disappear before they can reply in kind. These mechs tend to get shot in the back a lot because they're not quite as fast as a light and so rely on being able to take a few hits.

After that come brawlers like my Orion that get in the middle of the action and can take fire from any direction at any time and consequently get a little extra back armor as insurance. LRM mechs also tend to get a little more because they're high priority targets for flankers, but I try to stay close to the team even with LRMs so it's not a huge amount. Beyond that, any mech whose main job is to fill a spot on the team's front line gets heavily frontloaded armor and I rely on positioning and situational awareness to protect the back.

Overall I don't have any mechs with more than 14 or so rear armor and most have much less than that. Mechs with awful hitboxes like the Banshee can have as little as 3, although that's an extreme case.

Edited by Mister Maf, 21 September 2018 - 08:04 AM.