13 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

title says it all.

for those that havent played the dlc, the way the rifles have been implemented is with double the lore damage (except the light rifle which gets an extra hitpoint on top of double), and without the lore -3 damage against mech armor. unlike autocannons range ramps up instead of down with gun size, with the light rifle having range somewhere between an ersmall and a medium laser, and the heavy having a 600m range. the cooldown times are very long though so it favors hit and run over brawling. this allows it to pair very well with light mechs. had a dual lr flea that was hella fun. also works to fill out a spare ballistic slot on builds without breaking the bank.

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

Rifles are kind of wonky but how PGI balanced them in MW5 makes them work because its MW5 and the issue of the low RoF is not usually an issue. All the rifles have like 9-10s cooldown which is honestly terrible because of how much it limits your DPS and don't forget that they're also hot.

I don't get why you would ever ask for this, are you trolling?

[FupDup]

Double their TT damage would be OP. The Heavy Rifle would do 18 damage for only 8 tons.

I'd probably just go with their TT unpenalized damage and give them lower DPS than the closest comparable AC (i.e. Medium Rifle could do 6 damage but has lower DPS than AC/5).

[Wildstreak]

Monke-, on 31 May 2021 - 11:33 PM, said:

I don't get why you would ever ask for this, are you trolling?

No, they could actually have use.

First, stats from MW5 would need changing obviously, even those who only play one (MWO or MW5) can compare stats online and see that.
- MW5 has all ammo buffed over twice MWO stats (MGs with 5200 ammo per ton for example).
- MW5 has cooldown bars but not stats seen, only RPM where higher = better CD.

Rifles do have high heat, low ammo per ton and long cooldowns as negatives but also positives.

Heavy Rifle hits just shy of AC20 damage at about 3x range for full damage with a projectile speed of AC2s.
Light Rifle is shortest ranged, still offers a low tonnage Ballistic for those tired of the gap between AC2s and MGs.

In general Rifles come across and being Ballistics that offer good damage for skilled shooters.

Even Chemical and Short Burst Lasers are interesting though stats for all Large Energy types are messed up especially RPM as are all SRMs.

[Stonefalcon]

Yes, so I can mount 6 on an Annihilator and become a magician making mechs disappear.

[Y E O N N E]

Quoting myself from the other thread:

Y E O N N E, on 31 May 2021 - 10:42 PM, said:

Ok, but consider that I can already fit a Gauss, a Light Gauss, an AC/10, a UAC/10, two AC/5, two UAC/5, two UAC/2, two RAC/2, or three AC/2s onto an IS 45 tonner and do work with them. Do the rifles do enough damage per shot or fire fast enough to be worth taking over any of these alternatives? Assuming we did get Rifles, what really stops a Heavy Rifle from straight out-classing an AC/10 in a PPFLD use-case given its lower investment? Shoot, the Medium Rifle is so light and small that you can mount six of them onto a Jagermech, and it's all but a total form-fit-function replacement for an LAC/5; actually probably slightly better.

I dunno, man, seems like you end up in the same bind as LACs going this route.

[InvictusLee]

Stonefalcon, on 01 June 2021 - 03:42 PM, said:

Yes, so I can mount 6 on an Annihilator and become a magician making mechs disappear.

i actually did that with mods and gauss rifles back when the game originally released on the epic store. It was hilarious. 6 guass anni is scary, but i actually managed to pull off a functioning blackjack ace with 6 guass rifles. It was mildly quick for an awkward mech, and could snap off head shots from across the map.

Heck im doing that now with the anni and 4 lbx-slug cannons. Slug shotguns. Work the same in mw5 as they do in destiny 2. Who woulda thunk?

[Ekson Valdez]

Topic moved to Feature Suggestions, also don't forget to post in Mechwarrior Online 2021: New Features!

[Khobai]

Mech Rifles are easy to implement. Get rid of the stupid -3 damage vs mechs. Make them fire in bursts of 3 to differentiate them from Autocannons.

Heavy Rifle = 9 damage (fires 3 bursts of 3 damage), 2.33 cooldown, 2.5 heat, 540m range, 8 tons, 3 crits, 3.9 dps, Ghost Heat Limit = 3?

Medium Rifle = 6 damage (fires 3 bursts of 2 damage), 2.25 cooldown, 1.5 heat, 450m range, 5 tons, 2 crits, 2.7 dps, Ghost Heat Limit = 5?

Light Rifle = 3 damage (fires 3 bursts of 1 damage), 1.8 cooldown, 0.5 heat, 360m range, 3 tons, 1 crit, 1.7 dps

Edited by Khobai, 02 June 2021 - 03:54 AM.

[Wildstreak]

Stonefalcon, on 01 June 2021 - 03:42 PM, said:

Yes, so I can mount 6 on an Annihilator and become a magician making mechs disappear.

You can make Mechs disappear already with the stock Rifleman-DNA Hero that comes with 2 Gauss + 2 ML.

Gauss with no charge time and its own SFX.

Y E O N N E, on 01 June 2021 - 04:26 PM, said:

Quoting myself from the other thread:

I presume you have not gotten MW5 or seen my MW5 Weapons chart linked above where you can compare some of what you list to Rifles and see their advantages and disadvantages.

Khobai, on 02 June 2021 - 02:51 AM, said:

Mech Rifles are easy to implement. Get rid of the stupid -3 damage vs mechs. Make them fire in bursts of 3 to differentiate them from Autocannons.

That is Burst Fire ACs that also exist in MW5 with slightly different stats than PPFLD ACs.

Edited by Wildstreak, 03 June 2021 - 04:44 AM.

[Khobai]

Wildstreak, on 03 June 2021 - 04:42 AM, said:

That is Burst Fire ACs that also exist in MW5 with slightly different stats than PPFLD ACs.

IS doesnt really have burst fire ACs in MWO though. their ACs fire single slugs.

the only ISACs that burst fire are the ISUAC10 and ISUAC20 which dont overlap roles with mech rifles in any meaningful way.

theres definitely a design space where mech rifles can exist in MWO as lighter weight burst fire ACs for IS.

Edited by Khobai, 03 June 2021 - 04:58 AM.

[SatireSphere]

Y E O N N E, on 01 June 2021 - 04:26 PM, said:

Quoting myself from the other thread:

I think light mech rifles would be significantly different gameplay wise from any of those options. An IS Medium/light with several ballistic slots can fill them up with 3 ton Light rifles and suddenly have a solid sniper-burst option, compared to the massive tonnage investment of ACs and Gauss in comparison.

Edited by SatireSphere, 08 June 2021 - 11:33 AM.

[Wildstreak]

SatireSphere, on 08 June 2021 - 11:21 AM, said:

I think light mech rifles would be significantly different gameplay wise from any of those options. An IS Medium/light with several ballistic slots can fill them up with 3 ton Light rifles and suddenly have a solid sniper-burst option, compared to the massive tonnage investment of ACs and Gauss in comparison.

Actually no.

Light Rifle is close range with a 360 meter max (would be more for less damage in MWO) while the Heavy goes up to 660 full damage (again more range for less in MWO).

Rifles are better for either a big gun or maybe paired on certain Mechs.

Edited by Wildstreak, 08 June 2021 - 06:35 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Wildstreak, on 03 June 2021 - 04:42 AM, said:

I presume you have not gotten MW5 or seen my MW5 Weapons chart linked above where you can compare some of what you list to Rifles and see their advantages and disadvantages.

Your Heavy Rifle obsoletes a Gauss in a PPFLD capacity with PPCs in tow. Heck, a pair of Heavy Rifles will do dirty things all by themselves at range and leave ample capacity for a pair of LPPCs to buff them to a silly 46 PPFLD while leaving lots of tons and critslots for DHS. Or, heaven forbid, three Heavy Rifles...all of which fit into the arm of a JagerMech, mind you.Are you ready for 54 PPFLD at 760 meters? Or how about 36+36 damage? Seems kinda broken.

Your Medium Rifle obsoletes an AC/10 and even a Light Gauss in a similar capacity, but not quite as egregiously as the Heavy.

The Light RIfle isn't terribly useful; doesn't do enough damage or DPS for its range bracket even with 4 of them. A triplet of theoretical LAC/5 would be a better investment even at +2 tons. Or a Gauss Rifle. Or a pair of Snubs. Or even a pair of Medium Rifles (or three).

Overall, your rifle values have bad DPS, but the nature of the builds they'd do well on is such that they either are limited by heat dissipation already or you save so many resources that you can realistically lean on energy weapons to fill the void. Except the Light Rifle, which is just going to be bad because anything hefty enough to bring enough Light Rifles worth considering is also heavy enough to bring better ballistic alternatives, including other Rifles.

SatireSphere, on 08 June 2021 - 11:21 AM, said:

I think light mech rifles would be significantly different gameplay wise from any of those options. An IS Medium/light with several ballistic slots can fill them up with 3 ton Light rifles and suddenly have a solid sniper-burst option, compared to the massive tonnage investment of ACs and Gauss in comparison.

Going with Wildstreak's MW5 values:

A Light Rifle is 3 tons, 7 damage (0.88 DPS), 360 meters

I can cram four of those onto an Arrow for 28 damage at an amazing 3.5 DPS...or I can just put 3x PPC on it and do more alpha at more than twice the DPS and with +50% more range. Energy slots are abundant across all the 'Mechs where a Light Rifle might be attractive weight-wise, and they are so much better that the Light Rifle just isn't worth equipping. You would have to give the Light Rifle more DPS, which is decidedly not what the point of the Rifle is vs. an AC, and then at that point you turn it into an apocryphal ProtoMech AC/3 and dunk on the canon ProtoMech AC/2.

If you really want a pokey weapon in the ~300 meter range bracket for Lights, you would be far better served by adding MagShot and AP Gauss into the game, each being only a half ton and doing 2 and 3 damage, respectively. That's light enough to be for-real useable on a Light. Eight MagShots on a Flea 19? Seven AP Gauss on a Shadow Cat? Yes, please.