169 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

Jack Dawes, on 24 September 2018 - 07:04 PM, said:

I probably qualify as a "bad". You are not competent to decide what I want. In fact, you aren't capable of determining what most people want. You just enjoy feeling special by denigrating strawmen aimed at "bads". your opinion is meaningless when it is encapsulated by so much stupid.

I would like to be able to play stock mechs. I can't. So be it. Keep your "bads want" crap to yourself.

This is exactly the issue.

You are a “bad” because perhaps you bring a stock mech to a min/max fight?

The game is designed one way, a clear and mathematically provable and obvious way. By refusing to accept that and bringing your stock mech in a game not designed for that you guarantee to bring your own performance down and also your teams’. I am guilty of this as well and so is a large chunk of the population (not just stock but other novelty and niche builds as well). Our own personal lack of skill (which of course varies) makes it all the worse.

This is what makes PGI’s decision for a stock mode WC so insane as well. NO ONE who is of a competitive bent (a “good” if you will) plays the game in the manner PGI is imposing on thier “world championship”. This is also what makes PGI’s efforts at “balance” equally frustrating, as they approach it from a perspective that no mech should be a puzzle with a single optimized build, failing to understand that EVERY mech has a single optimized build! That may change with ever monthly weapons tweak but at a given moment in time it is true, and so pretending to balance such that any player choice is viable is folly; all it does is feed into the cycle of allowing bads to get worse.

This isn’t personal to you, or me or anyone else. It’s just the way the game is set up.

Edited by Bud Crue, 25 September 2018 - 01:58 AM.

[DarthHias]

Yes I agree.
Even when I don´t play the meta, I would never play an unoptimized build. Fun for me comes with performing. While I may go solo for fun or try some build that only performes under the right circumstances I will still build as good as possible and give my best.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

I'm fine with world champs being stock. If the players are as good as they claim, they should be able to perform no matter what.

[Avlaen]

Shifty McSwift, on 22 September 2018 - 05:07 AM, said:

While true, seeing the face of an assault really as you round a corner should inspire general panic IF they are carrying a meta loadout, while seeing the face of a light when you round a general corner tends to inspire a more stare directly at the thing and try to crush it immediately.

Thing is many assaults aren't carrying what you might be expecting to get slammed with, and as such just make extremely easy targets in many situations.

Id rather round a corner to an atlas than a piranha....

[General Solo]

Xulld, on 24 September 2018 - 10:32 AM, said:

Here is someone saying, thank god the game makes no sense.

Explain how

[General Solo]

FupDup, on 24 September 2018 - 10:32 AM, said:

Good thing this game doesn't really have logistics then. Effectiveness "per ton" or other ratios of efficiency are irrelevant, what matters here is the absolute effectiveness on a 1:1 basis.

The Warhawk isn't really a good example here because its quirks got overnerfed and you're presumably choosing to use a loadout subject to Ghost Heat (quad ERPPCs right?). There are plenty of other assaults that don't get Ghosted.

We had Repair and Re-arm and the player base said no thou PGI never tuned it or tried to make it work good probably because of the vehement player back lash

[JediPanther]

I managed to beat my record of damage-kills. normally under 400 but I found a good kgc build for face smashing. Blows against lights since all assaults turn like the titanic. My assault felt like an assault for once instead of a 100 ton paper weight. Kind of bad that someone who is absolute horrid in assaults managed to outdo two other assaults.

[Jman5]

OZHomerOZ, on 26 September 2018 - 05:45 AM, said:

We had Repair and Re-arm and the player base said no thou PGI never tuned it or tried to make it work good probably because of the vehement player back lash

I don't know how they could have done it in a way that would be fun for players instead of just a money sink to grind through. Nor do I know how they could have done it in a way that balanced different playstyles. Brawlers for example take much more damage per match than a guy sitting 800 meters back poking from cover. And it would just increase the number of players running and hiding at the end of matches to avoid repair fees.

It's one of those things that sounds good in principle, but gets old quickly when you put it in the players' hands.

[LordNothing]

man i just had a great game. i was in an assault mech (an exe with a pair of hlls, a pair of hmls and a pair of atm6es). the high point was when i got behind a pirhana and shot out its back armor with my lasers. talk about total role reversal.

[Lethe Wyvern]

LordNothing, on 02 October 2018 - 09:34 PM, said:

man i just had a great game. i was in an assault mech (an exe with a pair of hlls, a pair of hmls and a pair of atm6es). the high point was when i got behind a pirhana and shot out its back armor with my lasers. talk about total role reversal.

Backstabbing lights with assaults is dirty and unacceptable. You should rethink your life from this point.

[LordNothing]

Lethe Wyvern, on 02 October 2018 - 09:49 PM, said:

Backstabbing lights with assaults is dirty and unacceptable. You should rethink your life from this point.

to be fair he was very potato. i mean who takes a light mech and lacks the situational awareness to see the hulking executioner behind him. and thats not even the worst of it, he was just there machine gun camping a medium, not moving at all. he may have well been wearing a sign that says 'kick me'.

[Dogstar]

Just because someone else makes a mistake it doesn't make you a better pilot

[Astrocanis]

Bud Crue, on 25 September 2018 - 01:57 AM, said:

This is exactly the issue.

You are a “bad” because perhaps you bring a stock mech to a min/max fight?

The game is designed one way, a clear and mathematically provable and obvious way. By refusing to accept that and bringing your stock mech in a game not designed for that you guarantee to bring your own performance down and also your teams’. I am guilty of this as well and so is a large chunk of the population (not just stock but other novelty and niche builds as well). Our own personal lack of skill (which of course varies) makes it all the worse.

This is what makes PGI’s decision for a stock mode WC so insane as well. NO ONE who is of a competitive bent (a “good” if you will) plays the game in the manner PGI is imposing on thier “world championship”. This is also what makes PGI’s efforts at “balance” equally frustrating, as they approach it from a perspective that no mech should be a puzzle with a single optimized build, failing to understand that EVERY mech has a single optimized build! That may change with ever monthly weapons tweak but at a given moment in time it is true, and so pretending to balance such that any player choice is viable is folly; all it does is feed into the cycle of allowing bads to get worse.

This isn’t personal to you, or me or anyone else. It’s just the way the game is set up.

I don't, in fact, bring stock mechs. I'm old and my eyes aren't what they used to be. That's why I'm a "bad". I am tactically quite sound and, in fact, have attended school for both strategy and tactics. I'm just not as fast as I once was. The reason I would like a stock mode is, in fact, because TTK is much higher and I therefor have an increased chance of contributing.

I stand by the statement that you are not competent to state what "bads" want. If you insist on saying you are, tell me, what is my favorite color?

Edited by Astrocanis, 03 October 2018 - 06:56 AM.

[Prototelis]

Astrocanis, on 03 October 2018 - 06:54 AM, said:

tell me, what is my favorite color?

Well, I bet it isn't red

(I couldn't resist)

[Astrocanis]

Prototelis, on 03 October 2018 - 10:32 AM, said:

Well, I bet it isn't red

(I couldn't resist)

Ok. That made me laugh.

Smartarse. LOL

[LordBraxton]

Had to play as my MLX to get the 800 dmg. I kept getting nailed by PPC and gauss on my screen, with the tell-tale sound effect and visual effects of solid impacts, sometimes right in my face, so on my torso.

Virtually none of these actually did damage to my paper doll.

I got 500 dmg in the stock build with erll and 3ersl... brawling with heavies

Lag shield is real and its making me want to play lights for the first time.

Edited by LordBraxton, 03 October 2018 - 10:59 AM.

[DrxAbstract]

El Bandito, on 22 September 2018 - 05:23 AM, said:

Depends. Assaults are at least slow in chasing you, once you duck back, and you will know where it gonna be in the next half minute. Lights, once they run past you, will force you to turn around, cause of the constant scare of getting your back blown up.

Which would expose your back to the enemy that are coming in behind the Lights. Which is why Lights are the perfect vanguard for a push.

Can only speak for myself on this one, but I absolutely dread hearing that "Let's wait for the assaults to lead the push" while I'm driving one, because it's a foregone conclusion I'm going to lose half my mech in doing so, if I don't get killed outright in the first 8 seconds despite furious twisting... People that call assault-led pushes can DIAF. Outside of 3-4 tank-based Assaults(Atlas, Anni, etc.) simultaneously cresting, or having a lot of suppressing fire from long range friendlies with LoS on the avenue, having assaults lead the push allows the enemy to focus on a single point on a slow moving target that is not only giving very little relative return fire, but also blocking the advance of their own team - the guys they need support from to do their job.

A couple squirrelly Lights though? It usually happens so fast the enemy can't coordinate quickly enough to call a focus target and most of them switch to Everyman Autopilot Mode. So you have hectic, divided weaponsfire with a high miss rate versus concentrated hits... And the Lights aren't body blocking the rest of the team from advancing.

#TeamLightPush

[LordNothing]

Jeffrey Dahmer The People Nommer, on 03 October 2018 - 02:17 PM, said:

Can only speak for myself on this one, but I absolutely dread hearing that "Let's wait for the assaults to lead the push" while I'm driving one, because it's a foregone conclusion I'm going to lose half my mech in doing so, if I don't get killed outright in the first 8 seconds despite furious twisting... People that call assault-led pushes can DIAF. Outside of 3-4 tank-based Assaults(Atlas, Anni, etc.) simultaneously cresting, or having a lot of suppressing fire from long range friendlies with LoS on the avenue, having assaults lead the push allows the enemy to focus on a single point on a slow moving target that is not only giving very little relative return fire, but also blocking the advance of their own team - the guys they need support from to do their job.

A couple squirrelly Lights though? It usually happens so fast the enemy can't coordinate quickly enough to call a focus target and most of them switch to Everyman Autopilot Mode. So you have hectic, divided weaponsfire with a high miss rate versus concentrated hits... And the Lights aren't body blocking the rest of the team from advancing.

#TeamLightPush

a well used wolfpack is a force to be reckoned with.

but yea assault pushes are usually grossly ineffective. the only time they are effective is when the whole team pushes with them. id never commit an assault to push from a choke point because thats how games are lost. people who call assault pushes are either complete idiots, or are just selfish and want the assaults out of the way after they put considerable damage into the enemy so they have easy targets to finish off. best pushes are when the entire team is fighting.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Lights are hard to kill with ACs and PPCs. Lasers kill them fairly easily. Lasers are easy mode, just point and click.

[Variant1]

Ruar, on 22 September 2018 - 04:56 AM, said:

I pointed out when the MG change happened that MG boats would end up being OP and it came true. The devs don't really understand the effects of their changes because they don't really understand combat. They just see the data points, which is understandable given their closeness to the coding, without realizing how that data compares in a fight.

So we end up in a situation where a 20 ton mech has to be able to do damage, ends up being stronger than 100 ton mechs in certain situations, and having those situations occur more often because of map design.

Mg boats arent op, energy boats outperform them in everyway. a myst linx with 4 small pulses can do more damage than a 6 mg cheetah or mg boat lynx. The piranah is only op if it boats lasers, it can use 10 micro pulses and out dps its mg boat variant. Infact mg piranah aint even close to being op, its a 20 tonner that has to use up alot more tonnage for ammo than dps versus a 10 micro pulse piranah thats not only not ammo dependant but much faster and can insta gib the mg piranah before it can even crit. Mg boats have to rely on enemies weakened or stripped armor to be effective.

Jman5, on 26 September 2018 - 10:53 AM, said:

I don't know how they could have done it in a way that would be fun for players instead of just a money sink to grind through. Nor do I know how they could have done it in a way that balanced different playstyles. Brawlers for example take much more damage per match than a guy sitting 800 meters back poking from cover. And it would just increase the number of players running and hiding at the end of matches to avoid repair fees.

It's one of those things that sounds good in principle, but gets old quickly when you put it in the players' hands.

I remember when i played world of tanks it used the repair rearm system. Trust me it was not fun, not fun at all. Higher tier tanks like heavies would usualy sit back to save on repair cost and ammo costs. Its super grind not to mention even if you do win you could still lose money, it was especialy bad when premium ammo only costed gold(aka real money).