38 replies to this topic

[Shifty McSwift]

tutzdes, on 25 September 2018 - 01:58 AM, said:

redundant

Isn't it all, including the stats, the game and gaming itself a little redundant? The stats get tracked in game, surely they could track them further. I am not bother by potential redundancies at all, clearer statistical display is a good thing.

El Bandito, on 25 September 2018 - 03:38 AM, said:

So many of the truly sucky players do not stick around, and active players generally have higher match score? That's good to hear.

Is it though? I would think you want players to stick around in general, and have a greater pool of people to tier out, "suckiness" is relative, my starting year or so of casual play was a horrible grind and slogfest, filled with many poor decisions etc. It took me a while to grow to like the game enough to put cash on, and now I find myself coming back to it pretty consistently and being in the above average range.

Without going outside of the game it is pretty easy to make poor choices or get "trapped/tricked/trolled" by the game itself as a noob, would you have prefer I gave up when I realised how bad my first two mech choices were and had to slog out millions slowly for a single decent mech without even skills etc? Would you prefer I wasn't here now?

[El Bandito]

Shifty McSwift, on 25 September 2018 - 04:03 AM, said:

Is it though? I would think you want players to stick around in general, and have a greater pool of people to tier out, "suckiness" is relative, my starting year or so of casual play was a horrible grind and slogfest, filled with many poor decisions etc. It took me a while to grow to like the game enough to put cash on, and now I find myself coming back to it pretty consistently and being in the above average range.

Without going outside of the game it is pretty easy to make poor choices or get "trapped/tricked/trolled" by the game itself as a noob, would you have prefer I gave up when I realised how bad my first two mech choices were and had to slog out millions slowly for a single decent mech without even skills etc? Would you prefer I wasn't here now?

1. I was referring to the fact that most of the bad players that forumites cried about "ruining their games" do not stick around for long--which IS good news.

2. I'd prefer it if you become better player instead of generally blaming your teammates for your loss. I personally never blame my teammates on the forums cause I know how puglife works, and only by getting better one achieves better stat results.

[Shifty McSwift]

I think you mistake my frustration with a dysfunctional tier system with blaming other people for my personal wins or losses, I mean sure on occasion I might point out mistakes, but for the most part it is either a case of, what am I doing in this guys tier he can't even drive let alone aim, or what am I doing in this guys tier he just made me look like chump bait.

I know no system can be perfect, but it can be far better than what it is, which is a lot of the time, stomps. I mean you have no issue with the best players on the game pressing QP and being matched against t4/3 players? Knowing what that means?

I also get annoyed when my team stomps, because most of the time it isn't fun, neither is getting stomped.

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 25 September 2018 - 04:47 AM.

[El Bandito]

Shifty McSwift, on 25 September 2018 - 04:45 AM, said:

I think you mistake my frustration with a dysfunctional tier system with blaming other people for my personal wins or losses, I mean sure on occasion I might point out mistakes, but for the most part it is either a case of, what am I doing in this guys tier he can't even drive let alone aim, or what am I doing in this guys tier he just made me look like chump bait.

I know no system can be perfect, but it can be far better than what it is, which is a lot of the time, stomps. I mean you have no issue with the best players on the game pressing QP and being matched against t4/3 players? Knowing what that means?

I also get annoyed when my team stomps, because most of the time it isn't fun, neither is getting stomped.

That's low population issue, in which there is no easy cure, aside from temporarily alleviating it by going back to 8v8. A different MM system isn't gonna help, unless it increases the wait time to unbearable length.

[Shifty McSwift]

I just disagree that the solution to "low population" is to throw almost everybody into the same QP gumbo and expect it not to taste like butts.

[BumbaCLot]

El Bandito, on 25 September 2018 - 03:38 AM, said:

So many of the truly sucky players do not stick around, and active players generally have higher match score? That's good to hear.

Hey I'll have you know I may actually drop under 200 AMS this month! Leveling 40 mechs at once on 4 hours of sleep for weeks on end do in fact make a sucky player! But I'll be back over 228 starting next month, I promise

[UnKnownPlayer]

Meh, QP stats, I'm not sure what they are for tbh. You can get great stats by sitting behind your team farming damage whilst they meat shield. You can get great stats by waiting until 75% of the way through a match and piling in with a machine gun piranha. You can get terrible stats by running narcs with a few friends running lrm boats to help them out or by deliberately tanking the first line of a push all the time so that your buddies can sweep out a gun line on the enemy round the corner. Arguably both those actions could contribute more to the team than KMDDs, Dmg numbers, Killing Blows etc.
Showing individual stats or individual actions within a team game without having a way to talk about team interaction in them has always seemed silly to me. Yet people crow on about damage numbers in a fight, KMDDs, WLR and others.

The one thing I will say is that you switch over to FP/CW and a lot of those numbers become meaningless when you start trying to work as a proper team and harmful when you fixate on them. My favourite number, this is not recorded or displayed for everyone, is team damage, compete for the least.

It kind of feels like the Jarls list thing is end game content now, people want to get some kind of validation out of the game and getting the biggest e-peen on the board is the way to do it.
I still like the feeling of working together as a team to get a great team victory.

[El Bandito]

UnKnownPlayer, on 25 September 2018 - 08:12 AM, said:

Meh, QP stats, I'm not sure what they are for tbh. You can get great stats by sitting behind your team farming damage whilst they meat shield. You can get great stats by waiting until 75% of the way through a match and piling in with a machine gun piranha. You can get terrible stats by running narcs with a few friends running lrm boats to help them out or by deliberately tanking the first line of a push all the time so that your buddies can sweep out a gun line on the enemy round the corner. Arguably both those actions could contribute more to the team than KMDDs, Dmg numbers, Killing Blows etc.
Showing individual stats or individual actions within a team game without having a way to talk about team interaction in them has always seemed silly to me. Yet people crow on about damage numbers in a fight, KMDDs, WLR and others.

It is the combination of those stats that bring clear picture. A player with good WLR + KDR + Matchscore is undoubtedly a good player. And the opposite is also true for bad players.

Person with good KDR but with low WLR is just kill stealer that run and hide.

Person with good matchscore but with low WLR is just a stay in the back lurmer.

Person with good WLR but with bad KDR/matchscore is simply carried by his team in GQ.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 25 September 2018 - 09:33 AM, said:

Person with good KDR but with low WLR is just kill stealer that run and hide.

Person with good matchscore but with low WLR is just a stay in the back lurmer.

Or for both cases, a "sniper" or "backstabber". Also, LRMers are not the only guilty party in the second case.

El Bandito, on 25 September 2018 - 09:33 AM, said:

Person with good WLR but with bad KDR/matchscore is simply carried by his team in GQ.

Or a good commander who is not necessarily a good "shooter" (i.e. killer, scorer, etc.).

Or a highly inspirational mascot. Never underestimate their importance.

Edited by Mystere, 25 September 2018 - 02:06 PM.

[Kubernetes]

Most of the back row snipers and backstabbers can't put out enough damage to get a good matchscore. Those guys will have superior KDRs, average MS, and terrible WLRs.

Guys rocking a WLR >3 are probably doing a lot of GQ.

Edited by Kubernetes, 25 September 2018 - 02:22 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Mystere, on 25 September 2018 - 02:05 PM, said:

Or a highly inspirational mascot. Never underestimate their importance.

Mech Bards are worse than LURMers

[Tarl Cabot]

Mcgral18, on 25 September 2018 - 02:47 PM, said:

Mech Bards are worse than LURMers

Not if they are played right... a bard can truly enhance a group.. wait.. this is not Everquest.. !!!

[Mystere]

Mcgral18, on 25 September 2018 - 02:47 PM, said:

Mech Bards are worse than LURMers

Who hates bards?

[Phyrce]

Shifty McSwift, on 24 September 2018 - 07:37 PM, said:

I mean does anyone know the guys with top end scores don't purposely troll in their offtime alt accounts? This game is literally swarming with trolls, and I doubt most of them are "randoms".

Where are your stats on that to prove the game is swarming with trolls?

[Shifty McSwift]

El Bandito, on 25 September 2018 - 09:33 AM, said:

It is the combination of those stats that bring clear picture. A player with good WLR + KDR + Matchscore is undoubtedly a good player. And the opposite is also true for bad players.

Person with good KDR but with low WLR is just kill stealer that run and hide.

Person with good matchscore but with low WLR is just a stay in the back lurmer.

Person with good WLR but with bad KDR/matchscore is simply carried by his team in GQ.

Um, no, I don't think you can read such data, but OK, sure, here we go, the "stat reader" here will tell you exactly how you play by reading your stats and throwing some chicken bones.

Phyrce, on 25 September 2018 - 05:18 PM, said:

Where are your stats on that to prove the game is swarming with trolls?

You think that would be provable... Through the stats?... As opposed to playing the game and encountering them consistently? I have uploaded some video where it is pretty apparent, almost every time I go to record, some weird stuff will happen.

There's a good chance there are a lot of petty people out there who see my name and feel they have to troll too, but I doubt it is to that extent.

[El Bandito]

Shifty McSwift, on 25 September 2018 - 10:17 PM, said:

You think that would be provable... Through the stats?... As opposed to playing the game and encountering them consistently? I have uploaded some video where it is pretty apparent, almost every time I go to record, some weird stuff will happen.

There's a good chance there are a lot of petty people out there who see my name and feel they have to troll too, but I doubt it is to that extent.

Need a bigger tinfoil hat?

[Shifty McSwift]

El Bandito, on 25 September 2018 - 10:46 PM, said:

Need a bigger tinfoil hat?

Trolls exist, such conspiracy.

I would say if you are suggesting there are no such thing as petty people who will mess with those they deem worthy of being messed with, aka trolls, who also go by other means of trolling, then you need a tinfoil hat, or perhaps you are a troll, and you are just trolling right now? Who knows. Who cares?

[El Bandito]

Shifty McSwift, on 25 September 2018 - 10:50 PM, said:

Trolls exist, such conspiracy.

I would say if you are suggesting there are no such thing as petty people who will mess with those they deem worthy of being messed with, aka trolls, who also go by other means of trolling, then you need a tinfoil hat, or perhaps you are a troll, and you are just trolling right now? Who knows. Who cares?

Apparently *you* care enough to make this silly thread on trolls. As for me, I am known among MWO's community, be it in the forums, or in game, and there are plenty of people who disagree with me, or stay salty against me. Hell, some units have bounty on my head, cause I am one of the best players in my unit, and I drop call often. Yet I do not remember the last time someone from my team tried to sabotage the game cause of that. You are making a big deal of something that can be explained by stupidity, rather than malice. I think you might give less of a damn once you become good enough not to blame the game results on your mates all the time.

[Shifty McSwift]

El Bandito, on 25 September 2018 - 11:04 PM, said:

Apparently *you* care enough to make this silly thread on trolls. As for me, I am known among MWO's community, be it in the forums, or in game, and there are plenty of people who disagree with me, or stay salty against me. Hell, some units have bounty on my head, cause I am one of the best players in my unit, and I drop call often. Yet I do not remember the last time someone from my team tried to sabotage the game cause of that. You are making a big deal of something that can be explained by stupidity, rather than malice. I think you might give less of a damn once you become good enough not to blame the game results on your mates all the time.

Okay, thanks for the advice on how to game, and the assertion that all I do is log on to blame other people for game results.

You have a team that doesn't counter your commands etc? That is great, good for you. You have never been trolled before and therefore think trolls/trolling is some conspiracy? That I doubt.

https://www.bitchute...o/KuLmOe9MAGcA/

There's a small portion (horrid quality I know but it was a first upload) of my general QP play, and I do have plenty of fun in the chaos, and get my butt kicked enough, and blame or chastise certain people at times, or call good game/good fight when called for or joke about at the start (not that much of that is visible in that video, just in general).

But that doesn't mean I can't be critical of things, and concerned about others. And despite what you may think my and your stats aren't a measure of validity on all things, and are flawed at measuring a lot of aspects because they are lacking/shallow, which is the topic of the thread. Not that they mean nothing, just that they don't mean what a lot of people seem to think they mean, and not trolls specifically, though they were used as an example of a QP variable.

If I had said, some peoples scores will vary as they go about new mechs and test new builds and playstyles, and that reading someones stats during that period and gleaning that "they suck" and must be having a bad time, you probably would have told me to get the tinfoil hat out, but there's an example of that which came up in the thread naturally.