57 replies to this topic

[Ted Wayz]

Started playing and spending money again on this game. One thing has not changed, this game needs role based scoring.

This fixation of trying to make a 20 ton make the scoring equivalent of a 100 ton mech has never and will never work. The current system also dissuades team play in some ways as players try to hit the 250 minimum each match. It forces decisions such as do I give our team an advantage scouting or just wait for the slugfest and run in?

No need to present alternative scoring systems, really good ones have been presented in the past. Just pick one. or look at other games that reward scouts (light), supports (medium), offense (heavy), and tanks (assault) and maybe use their system.

It might even make the wretched skill system make sense.

[Drenath]

My first 1300+ dmg match was in a Locust.

[El Bandito]

Match scoring does include things like capping, scouting, spotting, and AMS coverage.

[Ted Wayz]

Drenath, on 05 October 2018 - 02:08 PM, said:

My first 1300+ dmg match was in a Locust.

Congrats.

This one time a 180 pound linebacker had a sack for Notre dame.

How many 180 pound linebackers are in the NFL?

[Ted Wayz]

El Bandito, on 05 October 2018 - 05:35 PM, said:

Match scoring does include things like capping, scouting, spotting, and AMS coverage.

Again stating the obvious is not making a point.

Yes, you can get points for those activities. Does that mean your point is:

a) The activities mentioned score as well as damage, KMDD and solo kills?
There already are roles in MWO?
c) People choose game modes that favor some of the scoring you mention more than others that favor straight up killing?

Unfortunately the answer is d) none of the above. Correct?

[El Bandito]

Ted Wayz, on 05 October 2018 - 07:34 PM, said:

Again stating the obvious is not making a point.

Yes, you can get points for those activities. Does that mean your point is:

a) The activities mentioned score as well as damage, KMDD and solo kills?
There already are roles in MWO?
c) People choose game modes that favor some of the scoring you mention more than others that favor straight up killing?

Unfortunately the answer is d) none of the above. Correct?

Actually there are roles in MWO. You just don't see them in solo-queue. Play organized matches and you'll see.

[Mystere]

I say trash all stats except wins and losses.

[Prototelis]

You're right; light mech performance should be weighted to provide slightly higher rewards.

[Y E O N N E]

The only thing that is fun in this game is combat; indeed, combat is the entire point of the game. You can rearrange scoring however you want, but it won't change that. If Lights aren't fun in combat, people are not going to play them.

[Viking Yelling]

El Bandito, on 05 October 2018 - 05:35 PM, said:

Match scoring does include things like capping, scouting, spotting, and AMS coverage.

^
this is usually 100% of my complaint with Match score and Cbill rewards in game.
destroy a component? get a 5,000 cbill bonus.
cap *2* objectives solo, for your team? eh, like 2-3K Cbill bonus.

plus, we already know Match Score is combat focused. Toss up a UAV on the enemy team and destroy some mech components and you'll get 500 Match Score almost every time.

[MischiefSC]

Yeonne Greene, on 06 October 2018 - 09:31 AM, said:

The only thing that is fun in this game is combat; indeed, combat is the entire point of the game. You can rearrange scoring however you want, but it won't change that. If Lights aren't fun in combat, people are not going to play them.

If I have to put in 10x the work for the same payout in a light or the other team has to do X (like bring a lot of LRMs and stay back so I have time to burn through 3 tons of AMS ammo) for me to even get close it's not balanced, or good.

Resize 55 tons and under down on a graduated scale. Mediums and lights need to be smaller. Then dial up mobility to the current locust as a *baseline* instead of an exception. The Jenner should handle like the Commando does currently.

Turn, twist, accel/decel needs a significant boost. Currently a MC MKII B is going to drive more wins than a PPC Awesome. There will be some lights that out perform others. However until that top performing light is giving the same success for the same skill and effort as the five and dime MK II B then balance isn't good.

Some people are always going to say "My LRM and MG King crab is 100 tons and should always beat lights and mediums!" You will never make bad happy because you can't make bads able to beat goods. Quit ******* balancing around those complaints. Make lights and mediums significantly more nimble. I should be just as worried about a knife fight with a Centurion or a Jenner IIC as I am a HGauss Sleipnir or Scorch. Maybe not for the exact same reasons but a medium should be very nimble to account for lower armor and firepower. The Assassin should be the standard for mediums.

Forcing misses and grazes is the armor for lights and mediums and currently they don't really have it.

[Khobai]

it was a bad idea to ever try and make lights equal to assaults. no other battletech game attempts that.

instead there shouldve been a ticket based respawn system, and when you die, it deducts tickets equal to the tonnage of the mech youre piloting. that way lighter mechs are worth less than assault mechs which is exactly how it should be.

[Prototelis]

LIGHTS ARE NOT EQUAL TO ASSAULTS.

Lights are the least played and lowest performing class in the game.

Every game in this series has been about combat. That wasn't going to change here. It isn't going to change in the next game. This isn't a role playing board game.

And honestly, your thoughts on "role warfare" are boring as ****. If you want to sit in one spot and scan for targets go play EVE.

[Shadowomega1]

Get a skilled pilot in a light and look at his damage and match score at the end of the round, he likely outscored most of the people on his team.

[MischiefSC]

Khobai, on 06 October 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

it was a bad idea to ever try and make lights equal to assaults. no other battletech game attempts that.

instead there shouldve been a ticket based respawn system, and when you die, it deducts tickets equal to the tonnage of the mech youre piloting. that way lighter mechs are worth less than assault mechs which is exactly how it should be.

This game is a team based FPS not a linear campaign SP or tabletop turn based strategy game. The logic of having one set of content inherently superior to the other is fundamentally flawed game design. I get that some people want a game based on a SP game where they get to have OP stuff and everyone else has to try and bury Captain McUber under their dead bodies but instead we have a game based on the idea of you winning based on your own skill, not because game balance is broken to make you seem more capable than you are.

Good game balance means win or loss depends on you're skill more than fundamental bad game design choices. As it's a PvP game that should be the ideal.

[Khobai]

MischiefSC, on 06 October 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

The logic of having one set of content inherently superior to the other is fundamentally flawed game design.

no its not. in fact worked fine in MWLL. and that model works perfectly fine for many other games like planetside.

you started out in a light mech then work your way upto better mechs as you earn money.

there is nothing fundamentally flawed about that. And just because lighter vehicles are cheaper doesnt mean they cant be better at certain things than more expensive heavier vehicles.

whats fundamentally flawed is trying to make a 20 ton mech equal to a 100 ton mech for combat ability. thats utterly stupid. thats like saying my car is equal to an abrams tank. lol wut.

Prototelis, on 06 October 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

And honestly, your thoughts on "role warfare" are boring as ****. If you want to sit in one spot and scan for targets go play EVE.

electronic warfare is the role lights should perform.

they should be able to jam enemy sensors, generate fake radar contacts, deploy remote sensor probes, detect enemies through buildings/terrain and have 360 degree radar with BAP, TAG for ARROWIV, and have expanded capabilities for NARC.

Edited by Khobai, 06 October 2018 - 04:35 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 06 October 2018 - 04:25 PM, said:

no its not. in fact worked fine in MWLL. and that model works perfectly fine for many other games like planetside.

you started out in a light mech then work your way upto better mechs as you earn money.

there is nothing fundamentally flawed about that.

whats fundamentally flawed is trying to make a 20 ton mech equal to a 100 ton mech for combat ability. thats utterly stupid. thats like saying my car is equal to an abrams tank.

You'd have to restructure the entire game of MWO because MWO doesn't start you out in Battle Armor in each match and make you start from scratch every time. MWO has persistent, permanent player inventories that make MWLL's approach impossible. MWO is the equivalent of MWLL letting you immediately spawn in the biggest assault mech every single match without having to work your way up beyond the initial purchase (then after that it's free for the rest of your life).

Khobai, on 06 October 2018 - 04:25 PM, said:

whats fundamentally flawed is trying to make a 20 ton mech equal to a 100 ton mech for combat ability. thats utterly stupid. thats like saying my car is equal to an abrams tank. lol wut.

Dude, a car loaded up with RPG soldiers could totally **** up a tank.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 06 October 2018 - 04:25 PM, said:

electronic warfare is the role lights should perform.

they should be able to jam enemy sensors, generate fake radar contacts, deploy remote sensor probes, detect enemies through buildings/terrain and have 360 degree radar with BAP, TAG for ARROWIV, and have expanded capabilities for NARC.

Making all lights be electronic warfare boats is like saying all heavies should be LRM boats, all assaults should be dakka, so on and so forth. Some lights can be, but making every single light in the history of ever be a scout kills any variety within that class and would also require a complete redesign of lights like the Urbie, Fox, Adder, Panther, etc.

[Khobai]

FupDup, on 06 October 2018 - 04:32 PM, said:

You'd have to restructure the entire game of MWO

MWO is a terrible game it should be restructured.

FupDup, on 06 October 2018 - 04:32 PM, said:

MWO has persistent, permanent player inventories that make MWLL's approach impossible

Its not impossible at all. You let players drop in any mech they own. But each mech would have a deploy cost. Lights would cost less to deploy in then Assaults.

FupDup, on 06 October 2018 - 04:32 PM, said:

Dude, a car loaded up with RPG soldiers could totally **** up a tank.

No lol. Abrams tanks would be utterly useless if RPGs could destroy them that easily. Their armor has the equivalent protection of 24 inches of steel. Which is about the same as a battleship's deck armor in WW2. Even a modern RPG cant penetrate the interior compartment of an Abrams tank. You might be able to blow off the treads though.

The point is a 20 ton mech should not have a chance against a 100 ton mech. Ever.

FupDup, on 06 October 2018 - 04:32 PM, said:

Making all lights be electronic warfare boats is like saying all heavies should be LRM boats

No its not. Because the electronic warfare capability would be in addition to their combat ability. It doesnt detract from their combat ability.

Its not at all the same thing. My suggestion adds capability. While your analogy removes capability.

All lights should be capable of electronic warfare. But some lights should be better at EW than others, like the raven. And all lights should also be combat capable to an extent. And some lights should be better at combat than others, like the jenner. But no light should be as good as a heavy or assault at combat. And no heavy or assault should be as good at electronic warfare as a light.

Edited by Khobai, 06 October 2018 - 10:48 PM.

[Moldur]

Consider that QP represents a very non-diverse scenario. You're in a 12v12 cage fight. What brings more utility in that situation? Not some long distance mixed build like in Singleplayer MW3..

The builds for long range recon, destroying multiple small vehicles and evading turrets, the builds for diverse terrain and countering light scouts... They all suck. Why? Because that is not the situation you are in during Quick play. We are in the meat and potatoes "assault" phase with a lot of mechs fighting each other in open combat where pure combat ability far outweighs recce loadouts for camping in the woods with your mech for a month.

It is unfortunate as far as diversity of gameplay goes, but that is reality. PGI sells us motorboats, RVs, and sports cars, but the only place we are able to use them is at a swimming pool and its parking lot, if you get my analogy.

You even see the difference in utility between the gameplay of QP and FP. Mech balance is different because the situation is different.