21 replies to this topic

[Zebbi]

Easy mode, massive damage , no heat, point and click, stupid ranges, one shot assault kills, zero weigh clan mg's so you can boat 20 of them on a 20 ton mech. stupid op.

Without a doubt the strongest weapons in game, i propose a 50% weight and heat increase for all ballistics to bring them more in line with missiles and to an extent lasers.

Lets see if anyone have the guts to agree to the obvious, nerf ballistics...

[FupDup]

Lel.

[Kaeb Odellas]

If the Piranha had the hardpoints for it, you actually could put 20 MGs in one with 2.5 tons of ammo and an XL 170. 2.5 tons is more than enough to core a few assaults from behind.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Why would you nerf the poor Panther/Kit Fix/Adder/Cougar/Blackjack/Phoenix Hawk/Crab/Uziel/Arctic Wolf like that?

[HenryFA]

this guy just want to nerf everything that is able to kill his mech

gitgud

[K O Z A K]

[Redacted]

Have you actually ever tried playing ballistics, or anything other than lock on missiles for that matter?

Edited by draiocht, 12 October 2018 - 02:29 AM.
unconstructive, inappropriate language

[Eisenhorne]

5/5 troll, you baited a few people successfully. Good job.

Haze, I thought you'd do a better job recognizing obvious trollposts.

[Monkey Lover]

[Athom83]

Zebbi, on 11 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

Easy mode,

Lol, no.

Zebbi, on 11 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

massive damage,

Okay damage for to much investment in tonnage.

Zebbi, on 11 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

no heat,

Lol, no.

Zebbi, on 11 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

point and click,

Lol, no.

Zebbi, on 11 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

stupid ranges,

Lol, no.

Zebbi, on 11 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

one shot assault kills,

Lol, no, git gud.

Zebbi, on 11 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

zero weigh clan mg's so you can boat 20 of them on a 20 ton mech.

Except no mech has the hardpoints to do that? Also, the ones that can carry a lot can be oneshotwith a single alpha from the front.

Zebbi, on 11 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

Without a doubt the strongest weapons in game,

Lol, no.

Zebbi, on 11 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

i propose a 50% weight and heat increase for all ballistics to bring them more in line with missiles and to an extent lasers.

And missiles and Lasers already do far more damage per ton than ballistics?

Eisenhorne, on 11 October 2018 - 12:34 PM, said:

5/5 troll, you baited a few people successfully. Good job.

Haze, I thought you'd do a better job recognizing obvious trollposts.

You'd be surprised.

[K O Z A K]

Eisenhorne, on 11 October 2018 - 12:34 PM, said:

5/5 troll, you baited a few people successfully. Good job.

Haze, I thought you'd do a better job recognizing obvious trollposts.

Maybe I want to get banned so I have a reason to not come back here

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 11 October 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

Lel.

When FupDup says "Lel", then you know OP really said something dumb.

Eisenhorne, on 11 October 2018 - 12:34 PM, said:

5/5 troll, you baited a few people successfully. Good job.

Haze, I thought you'd do a better job recognizing obvious trollposts.

With pugs these days, one can never know.

[Zebbi]

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 12 October 2018 - 02:31 AM.
insults / ad hominem, replies removed

[gooddragon2]

Zebbi, on 11 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

Easy mode

They have their place, but using cover usually means that enemies don't get to keep up the fire with low power ones. Higher power ones like ac20 have a slower velocity which makes hitting faster mechs difficult if they keep moving.

Zebbi, on 11 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

massive damage

An AC 2 weighs 6 tons and deals 2 damage a shot. A medium laser weighs 1 ton and deals 5 damage per shot. If the enemy can catch a slow target in the open then it adds up due to the next reason...

Zebbi, on 11 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

no heat

In exchange for needing to either be very good at aiming with AC 20 large calliber against faster mechs or needing to catch enemies out in the open. Usually only assaults carry double AC 20 and they have to stagger shots (waiting 0.5 seconds between shots) to avoid shutting down from ghost heat after one volley.

Zebbi, on 11 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

point and click

AC 2 have high velocity but an enemy has to be out in the open. In some maps this happens a lot (tourmaline desert), in others it is very unlikely (Rubellite Oasis or Solaris City). This makes it more useful in some maps than in others like LRMS in Polar Lurmlands. AC 20 has low velocity. Still not point and click though. At longer ranges you need to lead a target a little even with AC 2s.

Zebbi, on 11 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

stupid ranges

With leading of the projectile perhaps. Even with gauss there are difficulties as you have to charge up which means you have to expose your mech somewhat or be very good at timing (also gauss go off like Roman candle fireworks when you crit them)

Zebbi, on 11 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

one shot assault kills

Maybe against light mechs if you get a good shot off with an AC20, unlikely against assaults unless you hit them from behind maybe.

Zebbi, on 11 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

zero weigh clan mg's so you can boat 20 of them on a 20 ton mech. stupid op.

This is a high risk high reward tactic. If you boat 13 machine guns on a piranha you can easily be destroyed by a mech who spots you at longer range since machine guns have short range. You have to be very careful with your positioning when doing this.

Zebbi, on 11 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

Without a doubt the strongest weapons in game, i propose a 50% weight and heat increase for all ballistics to bring them more in line with missiles and to an extent lasers.

No weapon in the game is the strongest overall.

Lasers are good at hitting at long ranges against fast moving targets in the open as well as fast moving targets up close, but you have to keep them on the target. Pulses are better against fast targets up close because they deal the damage faster so you don't have to track an enemy as long with them. Lasers are hot however. Unlimited ammo, and medium lasers dealing 5 damage is a nice go to late game when armor has been peeled off. Easy to splash the damage means mechs with narrow profiles or good torso speed are harder to hurt effectively with them unless you go for the legs.

PPCs are good against enemies at range because you can fire them immediately and retreat to safety (poking the enemy to death or weakening them), but they have a travel time which means you need to lead the target. Best used against assaults. Some have a minimum range. Unlimited ammo, but very hot and thus poor choices for close in fights. Hard to splash their damage since they deal it all at once. ER PPCS have more heat and more range, Inner Sphere ER PPCS (IS erPPCS) have good velocity as well.

Flamers suck are good at overheating mechs (they cannot exceed 90% heat on an enemy mech, but they can cause them to be unable to do much at that point. They deal no damage, have unlimited ammo, can cause enemies ammo to explode if you're lucky. Flamers take time to build up heat on an enemy, the more you have the faster the enemy heats up. In brawling close quarters heat is a big deal when one assault fights another, heating the enemy up can reduce their options or cause them to take internal damage if they choose to override. They are very short range and also build up heat on you.

LRMS are good when you are sure you will have a lock on the enemy. This means its actually better to use them at medium range if you have line of sight to the enemy. AMS counter them, but LAMS heats a mech up in exchange for infinite ammo and regular AMS runs out of ammo eventually. Firing chains of LRM 5 to avoid ghost heat is risky if the enemy has AMS. Not every mech will carry AMS and AMS has limited range. Using LRMS later on when fewer mechs have AMS or perhaps they are spread out will improve your chances. LRMS spread their damage a lot because they choose what component they hit, not you. This means they can be good for peeling off a little enemy armor early on even if you can't see the enemy, but it's best to play them carefully. They have a minimum range which makes them poor choices at close range. However, against enemy lights you can hurt them very badly if they aren't packing AMS or stealth armor due to their low normal armor amounts (particularly on enemy lights who are scouting). It is possible to unintentionally hit allies with friendly fire if the mech puts one of your allies between themselves and your missiles. Cover is the bane of LRMS. Polar Lurmlands has little cover which makes LRMS stronger. Rubellite Oasis has lots of cover which can make LRMS spotty to use. It's all about tactics with these.

ATMS are a very tactical weapon. They aren't as good at indirect fire as LRMS, but they deal more damage. They have a minimum range, but they can deal extreme damage up close just before the minimum range (3 per rocket). They can be good flanking weapons because you can fire them without needing to aim much after getting a lock from an ally even if the enemy is a light mech. At closer ranges AMS may not have enough time to destroy many of the rockets.

I'll get to the other weapons somewhat later, but I assure you that each weapon has its benefits and drawbacks. There's still a meta in which certain options are much better choices than others, but you can often find a mech within that meta that fits a playstyle you like.

You've got to know when to fight back.
Know when to fall back.
Know when to back away.
Know when to run.
You never count your C-Bills when you're fighting in a battle.
There'll be time enough for counting when the match is done.

Zebbi, on 11 October 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

Lets see if anyone have the guts to agree to the obvious, nerf ballistics...

There's no need to nerf ballistics at the moment in my opinion because they are good at what they are good at and not the best in all or even too many fields in my opinion.

Edited by gooddragon2, 11 October 2018 - 10:31 PM.

[LordNothing]

nerf potato peelers. the potatoes are too thin skinned and dont like it when people peel them.

[Appogee]

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 12 October 2018 - 02:33 AM.
inappropriate image, unconstructive

[Moldur]

This is about as good a thread as any. Can they finally un-nerf Clan LPLs?
The damage drop-off and max range castration is stupid. Just make it follow the same rules as everything else again.

[TechChris]

*wipes tear from eye*

Oh man......threads like this are what make the forums still fun. Just so absurd it was absolutely funny. Thanks for the good laugh, I can always use a good laugh!

[Vellron2005]

Not all ballistics needs a nerf.. just MG Piranha and AC2 / UAC2 boating meta.. those things are soooo annoying..

[Jay Leon Hart]

Moldur, on 11 October 2018 - 10:05 PM, said:

This is about as good a thread as any. Can they finally un-nerf Clan LPLs?
The damage drop-off and max range castration is stupid. Just make it follow the same rules as everything else again.

They can un-nerf the IS LPL at the same time and restore what many people feel was the best example of asymmetrical balance done right in MWO.

[scadateck]

LB2s run super cool for boating. Tradeoff, AC2 overheats too fast, but LBs spread damage.