20 replies to this topic

[Jables McBarty]

Hey y'all,

So if you were to look at my stats, you'd see that I'm definitely not a new assault pilot, but I'm new to trying to pilot assaults "correctly." (My first mechpack was the unquirked Highlander IIC, which made for a poor beginner experience, and forced me into the second line and the despised Lurm assault role).

To be honest, ever since I returned from hiatus, I've been trying to pilot "correctly" on the whole, whereas before I spent most of my time making an honest effort while running non-meta, bracket, or stock-plus builds.

The Question: How do you pilot and position a front-line assault mech?

I'm specifically interested in brawlier assaults - Splat Cyclopses, SRM/AC Victors, Atlases. Is there still room for these anymore? I see a lot of dakka assaults (ANH, MAL) that are less about brawling and more about holding a firing line. Is there a difference? Would we consider a HGR Fafnir to be a brawler? It often looks like more of an anchored turret to me...

Since returning I've switched to medium splat brawler builds and my match scores have gone up - I consistently put out 300-400 damage in my SHD-2D2, and often carry into the 700dmg range with 4KMDDs and a couple solo kills. Thus far I'm unable to translate that into an assault. My SHD strategy is - follow the assault lance, shoot at whatever's shooting them, facehug Lurmboats. Obviously this won't work as an assault, as I can't hide behind the assaults when I'm one of them!

Also - what makes for good positioning? I know that "positioning is key, especially for assaults" but I don't know what makes for good assault positioning.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

[Eisenhorne]

For brawling assaults.... they are generally not good choices in quick play. This is mostly because they rely on two very important things.... 1) A map that supports them, and 2) a team that pushes with them. You can guarantee neither of these things in quick play. Now, I'm not saying you CANT play them, because if you take one and get a lucky map / team combination and everyone is like-minded, things will work out for you... but if you get like Polar Highlands and your team has mostly ERLL and LRM boats, you're not going to do very much to help usually.

Make sure you optimize your brawlers if you want to use them. If you want to use a brawl victor or cyclops, that's fine, but it better be running 70 KPH+, and it better have 6 ASRM6 (or 3 ASRM6 + AC20 for the Victor). Stay away from the Atlas, it's too slow to be very useful in most conditions.

You asked specifically about the HGR Fafnir... it's not really a brawler. It can punch pretty hard out to 500-ish meters with it's heavy gauss before the damage really falls off, so it can do some decent work mid to short range without having to be in brawl range. It's ECM also helps it a lot.

Positioning is key, but it really depends on what type of assault you're playing what a "good" position is. If I'm playing Mad Cat MCII-B, then good positioning is one where I can expose myself to 1-2 enemies at a time to shoot at them, and have cover from the rest of the enemy team. This means push AROUND hills, not over top of them, otherwise I'm giving myself up as a target to everyone. Make sure I don't peek too far beyond a wall, I want to make sure I'm only exposing myself to a few guys at a time. if I'm in a brawler assault, good positioning is finding a place that the enemy is likely to walk by, and waiting for my chance to push in and take out a damaged mech or two. You -never- want to push into an enemy firing line unless you have a serious numerical advantage. Some people think it's "cowardly", but you won't help your team win if you're dead, and playing more conservatively is way more useful than dying in a blaze of glory doing 100 damage trying to lead a push.

So yea, I guess the key takeaway about positioning, like what makes it "good" or "bad", is to only ever expose yourself to return fire from 1-2 enemies at a time, and those enemies you're exposing yourself to better be weaker than you or being engaged by other friendly mechs. Never expose yourself to an entire enemy firing line unless you know as a fact that your team has more mechs in the area, and your entire team is pushing over the ridge. This is a situation like here 3-4 of the enemy mechs are on your team's flank, so your entire team pushes the flank. Feel free to run into them here, because as long as your team follows 3-4 mechs aren't beating 8 (hopefully at least 8 go to crush them).

Edited by Eisenhorne, 11 October 2018 - 01:06 PM.

[Phoenix 72]

One suggestion I do have (despite not playing Assault much), is try to get a Mech and loadout that will not just restrict you to the 0-250m range bracket.

I find playing Assaults fairly painful for the most part, because for some reason the majority of Assaults are hiding in the back. I have yelled myself hoarse trying to get other Assaults closer to the front, to get more people into the circle, to help push now, etc.

The number of people that are afraid of the enemy scratching their paint is fairly high in this game and from personal experience I would say it is most common among Assaults.

[Dragonporn]

Some most crucial points for any Assault pilot:
- Do not disco when match starts, that means you condemn the team for gruesome fight or outright loss.
- Do not AFK for 5+ minutes when match starts. If even fastest Assault doesn't start moving ASAP post drop, it is bound to be eaten, team will lose on firepower hard, etc, etc.
- Move with the team. Always. In QP team tends to run off ahead leaving slower mechs behind. Try your best to either keep up with team, or use VOIP/chat to tell the team not to do that.
- If you're frontline Assault, you gotta have pretty accurate gut feeling when to commit for brawling. This will be your only do or die moment, and if you went in the right moment, boy, you'll wreak havoc. Cyclopses and Atlases have some very solid and nasty builds. Look them up and take your pick.
- Don't put LRMs on Assault. Well, you technically can, but PGI jumps out of their shoes to butcher any possibility of frontline, aggressive LRM builds. Recently they made Artemis complete trash, so don't even consider it. If you really wanna play LRM Assault, have handful amount of backup weapons (lasers preferably) and only consider it if you have high mount, best suited for TAG. Without it, don't even bother.

Some people say QP doesn't favor Assaults, but that isn't entirely true. Some meta ones like ANH or MCII doing quite well for themselves. Even far from best pilots can do 1k+ damage and handful of kills without putting any significant effort. Some builds are just so good, they can literally carry you. But playing non-meta/cheese Assaults takes guts, and skill. It is hardest class to play, in QP it definitely is IMO, but it is still very much fun and rewarding. Do not stray from close range Assault brawlers, they are very strong if you have decent team, and engage in the right moment.

Edited by Dragonporn, 11 October 2018 - 10:32 PM.

[Eisenhorne]

Darakor... its not that I'm (we, assault pilots in general I guess) are afraid of scuffing my paint, it's just that it makes no sense to rush into an engagement all willy-nilly. You need to play as though your entire team is bad, because they often are. Never commit to a push or trade unless you know you're going to win it. Play cautiously. Take your time. Games are 15 minutes, you don't need to try to finish it in 5.

That said... you need to move up enough to get into optimal weapons range. Don't sit back at 900 meters firing heavy large lasers... move up enough to fight.

Edited by Eisenhorne, 11 October 2018 - 10:36 PM.

[Eisenhorne]

Because I am bored, here are what I would consider "meta" brawler loadouts for the splatclops and victor...

cyclops - https://mech.nav-alp...500703f_CP-10-Q

victor - https://mech.nav-alp...b9376c7d_VTR-9S

Both require speed tweak in skills to achieve 70 KPH speeds.

[Phoenix 72]

Eisenhorne, no matter what Mech I play, the Assaults are usually a lot more timid than the Mediums or Heavies. I tend to play Mechs that can take a good amount of damage and I often end up tanking a good number of engagements, especially when I am in one of my Crabs. I often anchor the front line, whether I am using the Crab, Bushwacker, Marauder or Roughneck. I tend to rotate back into the second line when my armour runs low. For some reason it seems like the Assaults often take the opposite stance.

[Eisenhorne]

Darakor Stormwind, on 12 October 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

Eisenhorne, no matter what Mech I play, the Assaults are usually a lot more timid than the Mediums or Heavies. I tend to play Mechs that can take a good amount of damage and I often end up tanking a good number of engagements, especially when I am in one of my Crabs. I often anchor the front line, whether I am using the Crab, Bushwacker, Marauder or Roughneck. I tend to rotate back into the second line when my armour runs low. For some reason it seems like the Assaults often take the opposite stance.

You actually hit around the reason for an assault being more timid here. In a faster mech, when your armor runs low, you can run back to the second line. You do not have this option in an assault mech. You need to play more timid, because if you don't, you'll just die if you find yourself in a bad position. There is usually no running back to a second line, you don't have any assaults to get behind to share armor with you. You ARE the armor others rely on. If you over-commit early, and find yourself in a bad position, you'll die. How often do you see assault mechs pulling like 300 damage on your team then dying early? Depressingly often. They -need- to be played more timidly, because the alternative is dying before doing anything to really help.

[Leone]

I've Some thoughts I put up a while back. I go over the positioning at the end. Take what you can from it.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 14 October 2018 - 10:38 AM.

[Moldur]

Remember that you are not a medium. You are pretty much stuck in the situation you find yourself in. A lot of the time, there is no way to bug out and regain favorable position. In an Assault, you're looking at losing quite a few %s of precious armor with a reposition that would be no big deal in a medium mech.

You're also going to be a focus target, whether or not that is communicated on the enemy team. If they are fairly competent, they will try to take down any vulnerable assault.

Playing assault requires a fair bit more forethought than faster mechs. Stay with the group. You are their reinforcements. Ideally you punish those who peek too far, turn the tide as a force multiplier e.g. the enemy goes, "Oh crap, I didn't know an all up assault was behind this guy, I'm over extended, I'm screwed!"

A fresh late game assault can make a huge difference. Yeah, you have to be patient at first. There is no reason for you to get a mediocre peek in and lose 25% of your armor in the first 2 minutes of the match or straight up dying by stubbornly leading a suicide push. If someone ******* about the assaults not pushing, too bad. The most effective assault pushes are when the rest of the team is down some armor, because you are keeping them from dying.

Of course, play style is also slightly dependent upon build, for instance, a long range damage over time build will require more face time, but you still want to follow the playbook as far as avoiding being a focus target.

[Mister Maf]

Brawling assaults should ideally have at least one medium-range weapon such as an MRM, AC/10, rotary autocannon, a group of medium/large lasers, etc., just so they aren't completely helpless outside of close range. It's not always necessary, but it helps because it makes enemies think twice about standing outside your range and killing you for free.

That established, the most important thing to know about piloting assaults is that you're one of the most important players on the team and consequently have a role to play. Other players are looking to you to direct the flow of battle, and the enemy team is looking to kill you first. Playing an assault mech requires a completely different mindset than playing a medium — you must lead, not follow.

This means that you should surround yourself with teammates. By all means lead the charge — and I mean lead it by using your microphone to rally the team to your position and announce that you're preparing to push and need their help — but don't go in so far ahead of everyone else that the enemy team can easily drop you before they even have to worry about anyone else. If anyone on your team is listening to you once you've established your role as a leader in an assault mech, you're also in a prime position to call targets for the team, since you're at the front and have the most firepower out of anyone else on the team. When you have your team help you focus down the enemy assaults quickly, that puts you as an assault mech in a much stronger position because most enemy mechs don't have the firepower to take you one on one, which lets you keep the push going.

If you did your job properly, you should have given your team enough momentum even if you die to roll over the remaining enemies without you. Obviously you don't have to do this every game if someone else on the team is already issuing directions — in this case group up with them and be their meatshield. The key for piloting an assault mech at the end of the day is strength in numbers. Surround yourself with teammates and you succeed; die alone and you put your team at a major disadvantage. This is true for virtually every mech, but because assaults are your team's anchor and the enemy's priority target, it counts doubly so.

Edited by Mister Maf, 14 October 2018 - 07:50 PM.

[Damnedtroll]

Assault are slow... sometimes timidity is real, sometimes it's just that they cannot follow the rapid pace of the rest of the team and are left behind trying to catch up...

A lone assault in the front is a waste of tonnage too... you get killed in an instant. The team need to stay and act together.

[Jables McBarty]

Dragonporn, on 11 October 2018 - 10:32 PM, said:

- Don't put LRMs on Assault.

Sir!

I. WOULD. NEVER.

[Eisenhorne]

Jables McBarty, on 16 October 2018 - 06:53 AM, said:

Sir!

I. WOULD. NEVER.

Don't knock it. Behold, your new god - https://mech.nav-alp...c93524ff_FNR-5E

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 09 November 2018 - 11:28 AM.

[Eisenhorne]

Throe, on 16 October 2018 - 09:26 AM, said:

Note there's no Artemis, because Artemis will no longer grant bonuses unless you're staring at your target, after today. This is a dedicated "support LRM boat".

Very dangerous to play in Quick Play because your team is just as likely to support you as leave you behind to die in the wolfpack/nascar.

Very risky to play in quick play.... but if you catch something in the open, you will evaporate it. It can literally erase assault mechs from existence, if they are foolish enough to step in the open. If you get a map that has open areas at all, you will destroy everything. Even on maps like Mining, if you get a decent position you can obliterate everything (though I've had games on mining go very, very poorly if the team is dedicated to nascaring super hard).

It's a stupid troll mech, but I have fun with it.

[General Solo]

@OP
Your asking for a lot if you want to brawl in an assualt mech and be consistently good.
First you have a very limited range envelope and an even moar limited speed envelope to make use of that very limited range envelope.

Which means you will be spending large parts of the game not firing your guns and basically beeing a big target/meatshield not shooting back.

Put some longer range weapons on, you can still brawl, just not as good. But at least you wont be facing a fresh target due to longer range weapons taking out assault sized bites out of the target.

Longer range allows you to fire more often, maximising an assualt mechs firepower. Not being able to fire except at 270m or less is a waste of an assualt mech in IMO

Some tips - Move cover to cover, your slow you cant run away from surprises, so you need to have cover near by at all times.

- Soon as the game starts you need to move in the direction your team is moving, delays here can be fatal.

- Check your minimap often and move on when the team does or when you anticipate the team will move shortly.

- Take shortcuts to keep up with the team, so long as it doesnt rek you

- Go the Long way if the shortcut will kill you or get you rekt.

- Position so that you can kill every thing you encounter, because you must, as you cannot run away. This means position so your exposed to 1 or 2 mechs at most. Kill them and then move to your next position exposed to one (at most 2) mechs and repeat.

- Dont listen to people trying to convince you that assualts mech are some team meatshield/bike, they have no idea.
Why?

Because the most valuable thing about an assault mech is its GUNS not its Armour.
Focus fire will kill an assualt almost quickly as a heavy mech.

But no heavy mech spits out damage like an assualt carrying 42 tons of weapons payload. So you need to stay alive to shoot those big bois.
So really the team should be your meatshield. Keeping you alive to do damage like only an assualt can.

Unless you start the game late and don't check your map often to stay with your team, in which case meatshield would be the best strategy.


Some brawly assualts for your perusal.

CYCLOPS with Quad LBx10
Anni with Dual Heavy Guass and some lasors
Mauler with Dual Heavy Guass and some lasors

I have a really Hot and bad Atlas I like to semi brawl/ corner poke/facetime build that I think rocks and is awesome even thought its an Atlas - Dual RAC'5 with triple MRM20's on a DDC

The rest of my assualts all have longer range

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 22 October 2018 - 11:54 AM.

[Dragonporn]

Eisenhorne, on 16 October 2018 - 07:08 AM, said:

Don't knock it. Behold, your new god - https://mech.nav-alp...c93524ff_FNR-5E

[Eisenhorne]

And I recommend that the guy who runs nav-alpha grow a pair and learn to lurm like a boss.

[Koniving]

Jables McBarty, on 16 October 2018 - 06:53 AM, said:

Sir!

I. WOULD. NEVER.

I would.

But this is an Assault Mech...with the assault aspect still intact.