13 replies to this topic

[KenjiruFr]

Greetings Mechwarrios,
with the lastest patch buffing the DPS in a significant way, the games are over very fast.

What i noticed is a pattern of an increasing number of games where you either stomp the enemy or get stomp.
That mean that the level of the player you are grouped with is even MORE important than before (which we all know is already a problem due to the shrinking player base).

Overall i think it does make the game a less enjoyable experience : get stomped is not fun, stomping the enemy team can be fun at first, but soon you realize it s not that much either.
Also you now spend more time waiting for a game than actually playing (queuing simulator anyone ?)

Another problem is that the increased DPS is mainly for the larger mechs (with lots of Heat sink) and this leave the light and medium at underperforming level (as they do not receive the benefit of this change as much due to lack of tonnage).

IMO you should return to the drawing board to tweak these changes, on paper they looked nice, in really i feel they are a move in the wrong direction.

Balance is hard to achieve, thank you for reading my feedback.

[Khobai]

when your heat dissipates so quickly that you no longer have to manage heat it defeats the purpose of having heat in the first place.

they need to walk back the dissipation buff on the clan side. the dissipation buff is fine for IS since they cant equip nearly as many DHS.


CDHS should be changed to 2.2 internal and 1.4-1.5 external

ISDHS should stay at 2.2 for both internal and external

ISDHS cost more crit slots so they should rightfully dissipate more heat than CDHS.

Edited by Khobai, 18 October 2018 - 11:05 PM.

[Ruccus]

Personally I like the changes so far and I generally run Inner Sphere mechs. I've formed a tactic that seems to work well against laser boats because they've brought more of the cooling of the mech outside the engine and into the heatsinks.

What I do is strip a side torso first. With a mech like the Champion let's take a simple AC20 plus 4 Medium Laser build. It has a 40 point alpha strike and will completely recycle in 4.4 seconds, with the AC20 recycling in 3.6 seconds or less. That means after 4 seconds you've done 60 damage and at about the 5 second mark after the first alpha strike you've delivered 80 points of damage to a side torso, enough to start critting things.

Using a target like a Hellbringer laser boat as an example, 80 points to its left torso is well into structure and may take it off if it's not undamaged before the encounter. Taking the left torso not only takes out three weapons, ECM, and part of the engine, but also two heatsinks to even further reduce its cooling capacity. Even taking the right torso of the Hellbringer laserboat is now more effective - losing four heatsinks plus the torso really upends its heat scale.

With colder weapons and fewer external heatsinks stripping a side torso on a Inner Sphere mech isn't as effective.

[Snowhawk]

Wait….. did pgi not mention that they will increase the ttk? Thanks Pgi for the nice dps buff with better heatsinks!

[Weeny Machine]

I like the changes enormously. Suddenly PPCs can be run again.

What they should do, though, is reduce the heat scale. This would reduce the alpha loadout and you would need to manage your heat again

[Luminis]

The game doesn't seem much more lop-sided than before, at least not most of the time. Most games are somewhere in the 12-3 to 12-5 region, I think, so nothing out of the ordinary.

There's probably a bunch of players who returned to check out the patch - I'd assume that might be impacting things a bit as well.

[El Bandito]

With increased heat dissipation, and no progressive heat penalty, people are riding the 100% line more often than before. That's not a good thing.

[Josh Seles]

I haven't been able to try out this latest patch because of school reasons but it looks interesting. The last time I played was PTS 2.1 and I did try all the PTS's. After looking through the patch notes, PTS notes, footage and opinions, I'd say this was the right sort of change implemented wrong. Feel free to take my opinion however you want. I'm just tossing this out there after all.

Here's my personal take on what needs to happen:
- IS DHS stays at 0.22 dissipation
- C-DHS goes to 0.20 dissipation
- Both DHS heat capacity goes to 0
- Mech heat capacity gets locked at 40 or 45 (preferably 40, but I can accept 45)
- 15% Skill tree boost is the only way to increase heat capacity while using DHS.
-- 40 x 1.15 = 46 heat cap
-- 45 x 1.15 = 51.75 heat cap
- Having heat penalties like in MW3 and 4 would also be good (HUD disruptions and speed loss)
- Single Heat sinks can get the heat-cap increasing trait. SHS are a different story and different discussion. They could be the low dissipation/high capacity option.

I did think that PTS 2.0 was pretty close to something good. I think all it needed was a few small weapon heat changes. 2.1 wasn't bad either, but I found 2.1 wasn't restrictive enough.

[Alan Hicks]

With the terrible match maker and now the increased DPS games are quicker, shallower and dumber, thanks PGI.

[BurningDesire]

wow this is horrible in a viper fire once wait 45secs to cool down with 5er med lasers so you can fire them again

[Koniving]

Khobai, on 18 October 2018 - 11:00 PM, said:

when your heat dissipates so quickly that you no longer have to manage heat it defeats the purpose of having heat in the first place.

they need to walk back the dissipation buff on the clan side. the dissipation buff is fine for IS since they cant equip nearly as many DHS.


CDHS should be changed to 2.2 internal and 1.4-1.5 external

ISDHS should stay at 2.2 for both internal and external

ISDHS cost more crit slots so they should rightfully dissipate more heat than CDHS.

I would think that just reeling them back to 2.0 for the Clan would work...provided the weapons generally went back to higher heat values. They keep ramping the heat down on Clan weapons and the damage up. Difference between IS and Clan LPL in the source is only one damage in Clan favor. It's currently two in favor of the Clans. At one point they had it at 3 in favor of the Clans. The long durations also have the additional side effect of making hotter weapons seem less punishing because it has longer to cool during the firing cycle. As such Clan lasers seem much colder than they really are and they lend better to HPS than IS weapons.

Edit: Actually it looks like they did raise the heat back up...

May try 1.8 universally for Clan DHS, but the "This plus that" style of heatsink was always bogus.

Edited by Koniving, 19 October 2018 - 06:23 PM.

[Koniving]

On DPs and the game... the game has always had stomping. It was actually an issue originally with non-DPS alpha strikes allowing swift sudden changes in the momentum of the battle by instantly removing one or more enemies at a time.

Now it is more of an issue of whom can sprinkle damage on the fastest rather than instantly butcher units.

In either case...the real culprit is with 12 mechs on the field, whomever has their mechs clustered the most can lay on damage so rapidly that the otherside will be stomped. But hey when a single AC/20 can pump out 60 damage in only 8 seconds (or up to a maximum of 116 damage against structure [worst case unlikely scenario but worth mentioning] in said 8 seconds), is it any wonder stuff dies fast? We cool pretty damn fast and we can shoot ridiculously fast. (Note an AC/20 in tabletop under TacOps can do 40 damage in 10 seconds, provided the risk of it exploding, and UAC/20 can do 40 with only the risk of it jamming. Though to be fair, 40 in BT is like 80 in MWO...).

o.O;

[Koniving]

Anyway, I'm of the belief that we can spray on too much damage in single shots at any given time. This isn't and shouldn't be World of Tanks with World War II cannons, we have autocannons that are described as "Giant Machine Guns."


But I know I can't trust PGI to make this work.


Also, sadly, as much as I'd like to have lore friendly autocannons....

....The real issue isn't actually the autocannons... it's the damn lasers.

Edited by Koniving, 19 October 2018 - 06:34 PM.

[SFC174]

El Bandito, on 19 October 2018 - 04:12 PM, said:

With increased heat dissipation, and no progressive heat penalty, people are riding the 100% line more often than before. That's not a good thing.

Agreed. It has made the game feel a bit more arcadish, TBH.

Funny thing is, the difference is more evident to me when I play my quirked IS laserboats (HBK-4P, WHM-6D, BLR-1G). Running combos of LL/ML on these mechs (or all LL on the BLR) the higher heat dissipation really seems to play into the existing IS laser strengths, namely lower heat and faster cycle time.

I've always enjoyed my HBR CMPL builds (vomit less so, but it was very effective), and my HBK-IIC-A CMPL build has probably been my number one goto mech over the last 6-8 months. But right now, I'm really enjoying my WHM-6D (3LL/6ML) compared to the HBR primarily because of the more versatile nature of its weapons loadout with similar alpha. The HBR benefits from better dissipation too, but it still has that super long cooldown so you don't notice as much. If the Whammy had ECM....(see loyalty mech?).

My HBK-4P with 2LL/5ML is actually more fun than my HBK-IIC-A right now too. Much better range profile, pretty much the same cycle time, better heat management, and only a little less dmg than the 7MPL variant. Plus you can alpha with no ghost heat.

I think PGI is going to have to make major adjustments to this patch. But in the interim I think that IS lasvomit, at least with quirked mechs, might actually be better right now, at least until you get to the assaults like the MAD-IIC and SNV. I don't think many people have really noticed too much because IS has so many other useful weapon options whereas Clan has been more narrowly focused.