14 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Quick and simple:

Quote

HSL (Heat Scale Limit)


AWS-8Q: IS PPC HSL +1
AWS-9M: IS ER PPC HSL +1
NSR-9J: IS ER PPC HSL +1 (This will allow it to utilize the ER PPC with the Gauss Rifle to allow for Gauss / PPC simultaneous fire.)
HBK-IIC: Ultra Autocannon 20 HSL +1

Lol, ok. I mean it's fun and all, but those are the only ones to get it? I mean Night Gyr could stand to have +1 CERPPC, King-Crab should have +1 AC20, so on and so forth. As for the UAC20 for the HBK-IIC, while it would be fun, the volley-fired UAC40s on it seems to be already powerful enough, having it alphaed might be too much.

Hell, since we're doing this, we could even have a negative HSL on top of general Heat-Scale increase? The Kodiak-3 was notorious with it's 4x UAC10 on it's first months, but then where was the hate for the 4x UAC10 on the Dire-Wolf?

Quote

Lock on


ECM:
> Weapon Lock on Time penalty effect now only affects indirect weapon locks when the firer has no LOS to the target under ECM.
> The "low signal" ECM effect now disables the ARTEMIS system's benefits.


ARTEMIS:

> Spread Bonus Increased to a 30% spread reduction (from 25%)
> Tool tip description has been updated to describe its new interactions with ECM, as well as it's dependence on LOS in order to function.

Well, okay, at least finally Artemis is buffed. That being said, the ECM only affecting IDF is a nice touch, but that's only really relevant when there's ECM at play. I guess sure, ECM is common enough, but the IDF just need a plain debuff (or DF a buff).

As for the Low-Signal effect on Artemis, can i assume that it nerfs SRM-A spread too? I mean sure that's a nice touch as well.

Quote

Weapon Changes

Energy:

ER Large Laser
Heat increased to 8.75 (from 8)

Clan ER Large Laser
Damage reduced to 10.75 (from 11)
Heat increased to 11.8 (from 10.8)

Clan ER Medium laser
Damage reduced to 6.5 (from 7)

Clan Medium Pulse Laser
Damage reduced to 6.5 (from 7)

Clan Heavy Large Laser
Damage reduced to 16 (from 18)

This is just lovely, finally the Clan Lasers are being adjusted. Tarogato argued that it's the high-damage that separates the IS from Clan Lasers "Just give it more duration", but the problem is that it still does so much damage especially when they can give it full blast. The retained duration while lower damage is inevitably an increased duration anyways.

That being said, the Clan ERLL might stand to have damage to just 10 with adjusted heat value.

Quote

Missiles:

ATM 3
Spread decreased to 2.5 (from 3.2)

ATM 6
Spread decreased to 3 (from 3.2)

ATM 9
Spread decreased to 3.5 (from 3.7)

ATM 12
Spread decreased to 3.5 (from 3.7)

ATM Design Notes: In Battletech lore, all ATM launchers are fitted with self contained ARTEMIS guidance systems independent of the systems found in SRM or LRM counterparts. As we have explained in an earlier missile thread, because ARTEMIS is supposed to come pre-packaged within ATM launchers, we have rolled ARTEMIS' behavior into the core ATM stats independent of whether a player selects the ARTEMIS upgrade or not. These reductions in spread coincide with the 5% buff that the ARTEMIS system is receiving this patch. With the ATM 3 launcher receiving a bit more of a buff to make it a tad bit more potent compared to it's previously set values.

You know what else is Lore in battletech? Ammo switching, and by doing so the ATMs could be used within minimum range.

Anyways, the biggest problems with ATMs is their low missile-count and low health that AMS in which LRMs are already vulnerable, it's even more vulnerable because of that. Now imagine using the ATM3s only -- the name of the game is increasing ammo count, so why the hell are we going to pick ATM3s when we can pretty much pick heavier equipment?

I mean i guess it's just an adjustment value due to the Artemis Buff, but still.

[Vxheous]

The6thMessenger, on 16 October 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

Quick and simple:

This is just lovely, finally the Clan Lasers are being adjusted. Tarogato argued that it's the high-damage that separates the IS from Clan Lasers "Just give it more duration", but the problem is that it still does so much damage especially when they can give it full blast. The retained duration while lower damage is inevitably an increased duration anyways.

That being said, the Clan ERLL might stand to have damage to just 10 with adjusted heat value

Problem with lowering clan ERLL damage to 10 is that clan ERLL ghost heat limit is 2. 2x10 damage is crap when compared to IS ERLL 3x9 damage. However, if you raise clan ERLL ghost heat to 3, you now open up a whole new problem of 3xERLL + ERML laser vom combos. Right now, you have IS ERLL boats in say 70 ton Grasshopper that does 3x9 + 2x9 staggered fire for 45 damage, vs 65 ton Hellbringer that does 2x10.75 + 2x10.75 for 43 damage. You also have the 85 ton Battlemaster doing 3x9 + 3x9 for 54 damage, vs 85 ton Mad IIc doing 2x10.75 + 2x10.75 + 2x10.75 for 64.5 but fired as 3 staggered groups.

Edited by Vxheous, 16 October 2018 - 03:18 PM.

[RickySpanish]

More clan laser nerfs? Dear Lord! At this point they will melt your 'Mech, force you to stare at your target AND do lower damage. Ouch.

[FupDup]

RickySpanish, on 16 October 2018 - 03:34 PM, said:

More clan laser nerfs? Dear Lord! At this point they will melt your 'Mech, force you to stare at your target AND do lower damage. Ouch.

I'm not in favor of the ERLL nerfs (on either side), but it's pretty silly to complain about the CERML and HLL losing a few points off their alpha strike in exchange for being able to fire much more frequently.

[The6thMessenger]

FupDup, on 16 October 2018 - 03:36 PM, said:

I'm not in favor of the ERLL nerfs (on either side), but it's pretty silly to complain about the CERML and HLL losing a few points off their alpha strike in exchange for being able to fire much more frequently.

Lol yeah.

Vxheous, on 16 October 2018 - 03:17 PM, said:

Problem with lowering clan ERLL damage to 10 is that clan ERLL ghost heat limit is 2. 2x10 damage is crap when compared to IS ERLL 3x9 damage. However, if you raise clan ERLL ghost heat to 3, you now open up a whole new problem of 3xERLL + ERML laser vom combos. Right now, you have IS ERLL boats in say 70 ton Grasshopper that does 3x9 + 2x9 staggered fire for 45 damage, vs 65 ton Hellbringer that does 2x10.75 + 2x10.75 for 43 damage. You also have the 85 ton Battlemaster doing 3x9 + 3x9 for 54 damage, vs 85 ton Mad IIc doing 2x10.75 + 2x10.75 + 2x10.75 for 64.5 but fired as 3 staggered groups.

I suppose it is.

I'm open with +1 GH for CERLL, at the expense of lowering it to 10 damage though. I mean 12 tons for 30 damage? it's still powerful, while still needing investment. Don't get me wrong, i understand the implications of laser-vomit builds, but with all said and done, wouldn't that at least the 2x HLL builds would still do better alpha than 3x CERLLs?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 16 October 2018 - 04:28 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Vxheous, on 16 October 2018 - 03:17 PM, said:

Problem with lowering clan ERLL damage to 10 is that clan ERLL ghost heat limit is 2. 2x10 damage is crap when compared to IS ERLL 3x9 damage. However, if you raise clan ERLL ghost heat to 3, you now open up a whole new problem of 3xERLL + ERML laser vom combos. Right now, you have IS ERLL boats in say 70 ton Grasshopper that does 3x9 + 2x9 staggered fire for 45 damage, vs 65 ton Hellbringer that does 2x10.75 + 2x10.75 for 43 damage. You also have the 85 ton Battlemaster doing 3x9 + 3x9 for 54 damage, vs 85 ton Mad IIc doing 2x10.75 + 2x10.75 + 2x10.75 for 64.5 but fired as 3 staggered groups.

So well put. And yet Chris & Co totally missed this as part of the balance aspect which is big, HUGE in fact.

I mean the only way cERL now works is on Battlemechs that you can boat insane levels cDHS on like a SNV or WHK.

Another weapon totally killed off.

[Steel Raven]

The funny thing is that everyone was talking about Clan ER LL laser boats while almost all the ER LL Boats I own are IS. I owe 1 ER LL Hellbringer and only for FP to counter 6X ER LL Battlemasters.

[Moldur]

PGI being half baked? Never.

I don't know who has been complaining about Clan lasers especially recently. I'm pretty sure those got axed enough uh.. 2 years ago. PGI is either completely out of touch or they are balancing the game to cater to the 30 people that play FP. FP and QP are different scenarios and necessitate different balancing decisions. By treating the entire game as the same thing, PGI is automatically bound to pissing off a certain amount of the crowd and also throwing balancing for part of the game out of whack.

What I see more of these days is heavier queues in QP and builds that are centric around ballistics or missiles, ballistics boating being the almost exclusive realm of assaults. Why? Nobody is going to bother trying to make their glass cannon energy builds work when the system is against them time after time.

[RickySpanish]

FupDup, on 16 October 2018 - 03:36 PM, said:

I'm not in favor of the ERLL nerfs (on either side), but it's pretty silly to complain about the CERML and HLL losing a few points off their alpha strike in exchange for being able to fire much more frequently.

That'll teach me to trust OP to carry all the facts and not just the ones that bug him. Looking forward to smashing faces a teensy bit harder with muh Warhawk Erppc vomit.

[Luminis]

Moldur, on 16 October 2018 - 06:15 PM, said:

What I see more of these days is heavier queues in QP and builds that are centric around ballistics or missiles, ballistics boating being the almost exclusive realm of assaults. Why? Nobody is going to bother trying to make their glass cannon energy builds

Just wait until people realise that this patch was an overall buff to Laser Vomit. Well, Clan Laser Vomit, simply because boating that many cDHS and the dissipation that allows essentially removed the biggest drawback that kinda build had.

"But muh alpha!" I think players will eventually catch on to the idea that it's worth losing a few points of damage up front if it nets you that much more sustain, especially in unorganized modes like QP.

Moldur, on 16 October 2018 - 06:15 PM, said:

work when the system is against them time after time.

Using one's own two legs is always hard after using crutches for too long. And I bet PGI will go for another nerf eventually, considering this patch completely failed in that regard.

Edited by Luminis, 16 October 2018 - 09:39 PM.

[Xyuni]

Vxheous, on 16 October 2018 - 03:17 PM, said:

Problem with lowering clan ERLL damage to 10 is that clan ERLL ghost heat limit is 2. 2x10 damage is crap when compared to IS ERLL 3x9 damage. However, if you raise clan ERLL ghost heat to 3, you now open up a whole new problem of 3xERLL + ERML laser vom combos. Right now, you have IS ERLL boats in say 70 ton Grasshopper that does 3x9 + 2x9 staggered fire for 45 damage, vs 65 ton Hellbringer that does 2x10.75 + 2x10.75 for 43 damage. You also have the 85 ton Battlemaster doing 3x9 + 3x9 for 54 damage, vs 85 ton Mad IIc doing 2x10.75 + 2x10.75 + 2x10.75 for 64.5 but fired as 3 staggered groups.

WTF is wrong with you clanners? Did you forget 2 pairs of HLL is equal to 4 pairs of CERLL? for the same tonnage of 8 tons but alpha of 36 DMG!

So when you complain about the nerf you use a magnify glass on that nerf and enlarge it and forget about the other advantage you have? That's not the proper way to cry nerf dude!

Edited by Xyuni, 16 October 2018 - 09:54 PM.

[Vxheous]

Xyuni, on 16 October 2018 - 09:52 PM, said:

WTF is wrong with you clanners? Did you forget 2 pairs of HLL is equal to 4 pairs of CERLL? for the same tonnage of 8 tons but alpha of 36 DMG!

So when you complain about the nerf you use a magnify glass on that nerf and enlarge it and forget about the other advantage you have? That's not the proper way to cry nerf dude!

I'm not a "clanner" and I didn't cry about nerfs. I think the current iterations of IS to clan ERLL is quite balanced in terms of how you much damage you can put out to 850m

[A Distraction]

Yes because there will never ever be any other changes in the future and its because PGI hates you.

Complain when the wind blows one way...

Edited by A Distraction, 16 October 2018 - 10:08 PM.

[Steel Raven]

Alright, after playing with the new Heat Sink dynamic, heat dissipation almost cancels out the heat bump. You still need to practice mean trigger discipline and watch your heat spikes as the lower capacity is noticeable but the dissipation rate makes it manageable.

Stealth Armor got screwed by this though, fighting with your Stealth active is now a hug liability.

[A Distraction]

Also flamers were hugely buffed by this and seem to be causing issues, but they did say that might be the case and that they would be looking at flamer performance post patch.