24 replies to this topic

[Shortpower]

I'm not alone in thinking that machine guns are busted right now am I? Once you're open they instantly crit out every component if they have more than 2 machine guns; this gets especially insane with the Piranha, the poster child of everything wrong with machine guns.

My solution is decrease the component crit damage for machine guns on mechs with more than 3 ballistics slots, scaling up in strength of negative quirk until 10 ballistics slots at which point it should be some high reduction in component crit damage (or chance).

This post was only slapped together in 5 minutes so any bad wording or poor explanation I'm sorry for, and if anyone has a more thought out solution I'd like to hear it. I just really don't think the machine gun vomit is balanced.

Edited by Shortpower, 17 October 2018 - 05:49 PM.

[Mcgral18]

That's the cost you pay for making MGs "Crit Weapons" as opposed to just dealing damage

[El Bandito]

The crits rates are too damn high for its DPS. MG's need a rework.

[Dragonporn]

I have several mechs that run MGs/LMGs right now, and I cannot say it's super consistent. Sometimes RNGsus decides to screw you up, and you just can't get a crit on that open component from 4-6 MGs point blank no matter what, but it's rare. Usually yes, it crits like a mofo, blowing up open mechs left and right, destroying systems of whatnot by just spraying over it, and PIR is truly at the top of a chain in this.

But to think about, how would you rework MGs not to be like other weapons but to be fun to use? Or hell, not to be ridiculously OP (though they are at some extent right now) or downright useless? In itself crit mechanic isn't so bad, with 2-4 MGs, it doesn't feel ridiculous and is pretty good supplement/filler weapon system for low tonnage/slots, but when you have 6+, that goes way out of hand.

The only idea I can think of is just give negative quirks for mechs which are able to boat 6 or more L/H/MGs. It will hammernerf my Shadowcat pretty hard for instance, and I enjoy that build a lot, but at the same time, I get so cheap kill at times, I become ashamed of myself... This must stop. Seriously.

[Y E O N N E]

Oh yeah, those Arrows need a nerf for their scary MGs. Yup. And those MG Fleas are just terrorizing the queues!

[Monkey Lover]

Only issue i have is they don't count range. Every weapon will do full crit damage even if its at the max range.
Video below is mg few meters inside its max range. But lasers can do the same thing. I have had er large lasers brush over my mech and take out my last weapons.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 18 October 2018 - 01:47 AM.

[El Bandito]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 October 2018 - 12:20 AM, said:

Oh yeah, those Arrows need a nerf for their scary MGs. Yup. And those MG Fleas are just terrorizing the queues!

Funny how those are both IS mechs, with either not enough MG hardpoints or speed to use them.

Crit rate is too much the case of MG. PGI should find some ways to lower it and give hefty MG quirks to smaller mechs with less than 6 ballistic slots.

[Asym]

This is yet another evolution of a sales gimmick..... At some point, PGI will change the metrics and create something new that is OP and sells..............and, we'll be right back in this forum complaining that "xxxx" is OP and needs to be nerf'd.......

Around and around we go and which mechs sells the OP creator knows !!! Sales gimmick that hasn't exhausted itself yet revenue wise.

[Weeny Machine]

El Bandito, on 17 October 2018 - 08:36 PM, said:

The crits rates are too damn high for its DPS. MG's need a rework.

Oh man, MGs are still situational (require uptime, low range etc). Invest some points in crit reduction in the survival tree if you are bothered too much

[FupDup]

Bush Hopper, on 18 October 2018 - 04:26 AM, said:

Oh man, MGs are still situational (require uptime, low range etc). Invest some points in crit reduction in the survival tree if you are bothered too much

Reinforced Casing is a placebo quirk at the moment, even after its recent buff.

[El Bandito]

Bush Hopper, on 18 October 2018 - 04:26 AM, said:

Oh man, MGs are still situational (require uptime, low range etc). Invest some points in crit reduction in the survival tree if you are bothered too much

Crit reduction nodes don't do their job enough, mate.

People should only use em on mechs with 25+ % crit reduction quirks.

[General Solo]

I'm killing them before they get in range and thus not having a problem.

And they are not op when I use them, maybe its the face time at close range

Another useless weapon balance thread from Russelhague wannabe balance Lords

[Variant1]

seriously? back then mgs where considered trash next to flamers. Now that mgs are actually useful people cry op? a high alpha of 80pt dmg for 50% heat will still outdamage mgs especialy in ranged poke trades.

Edited by Variant1, 18 October 2018 - 07:31 AM.

[MechaBattler]

When you think about it. It's a crit weapon because it fires fast and each shot has a chance to crit. But they decided to double down on this with extra crit damage. So it's ridiculous now. They should remove all the bonuses. It can crit just out of sheer volume of fire. It doesn't need any help.

Or they could buff component health and increased crit reduction skills more. Which given people's hysterical nature to nerfs, is probably the safer changes to make.

Edited by MechaBattler, 18 October 2018 - 09:22 AM.

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 09 November 2018 - 11:24 AM.

[Variant1]

MechaBattler, on 18 October 2018 - 09:21 AM, said:

When you think about it. It's a crit weapon because it fires fast and each shot has a chance to crit. But they decided to double down on this with extra crit damage. So it's ridiculous now. They should remove all the bonuses. It can crit just out of sheer volume of fire. It doesn't need any help.

Or they could buff component health and increased crit reduction skills more. Which given people's hysterical nature to nerfs, is probably the safer changes to make.

That whole suggestion will make mgs useless since they rely on crit dmg to take out components. If your components are exposed in the first place its going to be gone regardless of mgs since plenty of other weapons can do more damage.

[Y E O N N E]

El Bandito, on 18 October 2018 - 01:47 AM, said:

Funny how those are both IS mechs, with either not enough MG hardpoints or speed to use them.

Crit rate is too much the case of MG. PGI should find some ways to lower it and give hefty MG quirks to smaller mechs with less than 6 ballistic slots.

Shadow Cats, Mist Lynxes, and Arctic Cheetahs are also hardly terrorizing the queues.

I don't disagree that MG crits are out of hand, it's just that I fear PGI's ability to assess issues and make good changes that I'd sooner accept MGs as they are than suffer another 3-years of uselessness.

[ShiverMeRivets]

MGs are not OP.
8 to 12 of them - that is another issue. With other weapons, stacking them like that takes a heavy toll in heat, weight, and/ or crit slots. With MGs you can reach a very high dps with no heat and at low weights. Other weapons with very high dps/ton like RACs and UACs are limited by spin-up time and jamming, nither of which apply to MGs.

So you end up with 12 c-MGs that do 12 dps for 4 tons. RAC2s you need 2 of them to get 13 dps but at 16 tons, or RAC5 that gives 11 dps for 10 tons. Generally, c-MGs are crazy efficient at 4 dps/ton. The only thing that matches this ratio is c-SRM2. Everything else that is not MG is at 2dps/ton or way below that. BTW this is also why ACW with the 9 missive hard points is also ridiculous, though it has a higher price to pay for boating SRMs. Now, if your mech can only carry 4 MGs, the abuse of this dps/ton with not heat, jams, or spin-up has a natural limit.

So the problem is boating MG, not MG power, and it is relevant almost exclusively to a handful of clan mechs (because # of hard points and c-mg being much lighter that IS). This should be treated at the mech level and not the weapon system. The only weapon parameter that I can see that can limit boating MGs without killing low number of MGs is a small increase in weight. Make c-MG 0.5 tons like ISMGs and 12 of them will weight 2.4 tons more - requiring the carrier to sucrifice something be that armor, weapons, or engine size. If your mech has 4 MGs 0.2 extra weight means 0.8 ton, that can be accomodated.

[Spheroid]

Crits are a non-issue. Machine gun boats going for the kill prioritize legs or rear CT. Both those locations have little or no equipment to crit. The low TTK is from massive base line dps that is doubled against exposed structure. Altering crit behavior does not raise TTK.

[TWIAFU]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 October 2018 - 10:10 AM, said:

Shadow Cats, Mist Lynxes, and Arctic Cheetahs are also hardly terrorizing the queues.

\

The only REAL terror to the light queue is the Urbie.