20 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Aside from frustrating lurmers that is--I have to give PGI credit for that. ALL fights that I was in happened within 10% of the map, smack dab in the center, making those tricky cul-de-sacs and hidden places on high rises dotting the map, and the waterways and open spaces on the out skirts completely useless.

Literally the only reason I would vote for that map is when I see Polar in the same selection. Rubellite was designed well, but SC is garbage.

I do not remember any other map that uses less percentage of itself in combat, ATM.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 November 2018 - 11:28 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Is there a clear swarm path and a central zone to circle?

Yes?

OK then we are done here... *dusts off hands*

But in all seriousness there is actually 4 central swarm points around the very central swarm point (the four blocks that divide the central point), the thing is they all look alike, and the other thing is, they are still wasting some 70% of their work on the map.

As I have said before, I don't think I have seen another game with as much wasted resources as MWO, they really take the cake there, so I guess it should be no different here.

[TheArisen]

Well if you use the features of the map well it can be quite dynamic. It's just easier for most to just go to the center.

[Battlemaster56]

Wouldn't this logic apply to like every map in the game because everyone gonna go to the same center mass spot no mater what, just Sol City is way more obvious.

[TechChris]

And we wonder why ol' PGI don't make many them there map thingies???

(Not that I'm defending them not needing to make a new map every month or something to liven it up a tad. Nor am I defending Solaris City. I agree it's boring minus its awesomeness at restricting Lurm/ATM spam.)

Because unless they make it open wasteland ****hole like Polar (not a suggestion PGI... Don't ever do that again) We the people of MWO land will eventually find the "quickest route to a central-ish, or least big enough to provide cover/peeky-pokey, land feature so we can congregate/rotate around it" and that will become the maps Standard playout procedure. From the "spreadsheet" view of this game PGI has (since we all know they don't actually play the game) I doubt they see any need. It's all the same, just with different color palette.

It's just the way the game works out given how all its bits n pieces n mechanics come together. Even Rubellite..... Sure it's a nice map. But we still only use the center "bowl" area most the time, and pretty much the only thing that changes the part we use is what "ramp" area teams would cross/clash at first depending on the spawn points/mode of the match.

Edited by TechChris, 03 November 2018 - 06:24 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

I forgot the add context to this. This PGI mapmaking thoughts when interviewed by in 2012. Said maps should be upgraded to include a central theme landmark. It also indicates their decision on lining up Lance Alpha (lightest segment) through to Lance Charlie (heaviest segment).

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 04 November 2018 - 08:31 AM.

[El Bandito]

TechChris, on 03 November 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

It's just the way the game works out given how all its bits n pieces n mechanics come together. Even Rubellite..... Sure it's a nice map. But we still only use the center "bowl" area most the time, and pretty much the only thing that changes the part we use is what "ramp" area teams would cross/clash at first depending on the spawn points/mode of the match.

And that still uses more area than SC. Hell, even smaller map such as HPG arguably uses more area than SC in combat if you count the basement maneuvers, and the wall sniping.

Fighting around the center is fine, but on such a tiny area is basically wasting 90% of other areas, aside from the purpose of making teams spawn far away from each other.

Just damn glad that map is not compatible with FP, which in itself says something.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 November 2018 - 06:45 PM.

[JediPanther]

If pgi ditched their funnel-to-center-feature map design mwo might improve its maps but you'd be more likely to see someone win the lottery and buy out pgi before that would happen. Just look at how limited crimson straight is now that pgi has takken away most of the mountain due to one or two mechs with jump jets making use of it. You have only three choices on that map. A tunnel of death. B lrm Pass. C. B4 corner. Too bad the pugs love the [Redacted] A option.

Edited by draiocht, 04 November 2018 - 12:15 AM.
inappropriate language

[Appogee]

El Bandito, on 03 November 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

Aside from frustrating lurmers that is--I have to give PGI credit for that. ALL fights that I was in happened within 10% of the map, smack dab in the center, making those tricky cul-de-sacs and hidden places on high rises dotting the map, and the waterways and open spaces on the out skirts completely useless.

Literally the only reason I would vote for that map is when I see Polar in the same selection. Rubellite was designed well, but SC is garbage.

I do not remember any other map that uses less percentage of itself in combat, ATM.

You're blaming the map designers for the sheep-like behaviour of the players.

On the one hand, I agree with you, in the sense that map designers should know how players will play.

On the other hand, I wonder what kind of credible city map design would actually stop MWO players doing one of the two things they always do...?
i) making a beeline for the center of the map
ii) starting a counterclockwise rotation.

I can't think of any design which could actively prevent those two things from happening (while still retaining a degree of real world 'realism' to the combat environment).

As it stands, there are opportunities for an entrepreneurial and non brain dead MWO player to make use of the Solaris City map.

For example, when I drop on it, I never go to the center. I know that Lights will appear behind our slow-moving Assaults ... so I actually go back to them and hide behind a building for the 30 seconds it takes them to show up. OR I go do the same to their Assaults.

Net: I don't think Solaris is a terrible map. Rubellite is better. But Solaris isn't "bad".

Well, other than the visuals that is, which look like they were ported straight out MechAssault.

Edited by Appogee, 03 November 2018 - 09:28 PM.

[Nightbird]

Only problem I have is in consistent scaling between the buildings, doors, windows on the solaris city map versus river city and crimson straight.

[Steel Raven]

Every map has a battle the center with the exception of Frozen Center thanks to the valley everyone hates and arguably Forest Colony because of the rock formation and the occasional forest push. Canyon Network= the Table, River City= The Citadel, Crimson Strait= tunnel or saddle leading to the platform, caustic valley=rare it's not a nascar around the volcano in the center, HPG Manifold= take the center or nascar around the center

Lets not forget the Old Terra Therma that was always in the center of the volcano, as in if you couldn't get in the center= you loose. Now it's usually a battle for F7.. which is still the center of the map.

Fighting for the Center and nascar are the two habits that most players gravitate to regardless of the map.

You don't like Solaris, cool. I didn't like like the old Frozen City and cringe every time some ask to bring it back (I had allot of terrible experiences on that map)

Edited by Steel Raven, 03 November 2018 - 08:52 PM.

[KrazedOmega]

I don't see this as much of a map problem as I do a player problem. The lack of organization in QP matches means that players automatically default to the most common strategy, which is either A: nascar, or B: to group up and follow everyone else to the center of the map and fight. If you had 12 coordinated people on a team you could choose anywhere on the map to go and fight.

[El Bandito]

It is fine to fight around the center, as that's how battles usually develop, but in SC it happens at very tiny area on a very big map. Which is why I call it a waste of time, and effort. On other maps, the fights happen in more spread out areas, albeit around the center of the map.

IMO, the center of SC should be reworked, if more parts of the map are to be utilized. If not, PGI should make the map only 1/3 of its original size so people can still duke it out in the same old place, but does not have to suffer lower frame rates.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 November 2018 - 09:17 PM.

[John Stryker]

This could be less of a problem if the starting points were not predictable. If each map had a half dozen possible start locations for each team it might create a variety of conflict zones depending on the spawn location.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Playing this game made me realize that most rats running in mazes are smarter than the average human being with herd instincts that compel them to behave like bees swarming around a central hive. We're not as advanced of a species as we think.

[RickySpanish]

How to gud game design by Rickyspanish:

1. Delete Domination and Skirmish.
2. Delete Theta.
3. Conquest now spawns collectable objects worth points which may be returned to a friendly node to cash in.
4. 'Mechs respawn in QP.

You need objectives worth fighting over, you need to lessen the impact of a single 'Mech dying to prevent rapid snowballing. Modern multiplayer team based games have done this since Unreal ******* Tournament in the early 2000s. MWO still insists on ignoring this.

[SFC174]

I still like Solaris City. Not as much as when it first came out though. The proclivity of my teammates to cram into the tightest space and then stop like they're on a conveyor belt to the slaughter house saw to that. When people were still figuring out tactics and lanes it was more interesting.

But it's still a fun map, especially if you have jj's.

[East Indy]

Once in a blue moon, teams on Crimson Strait will meet in the northern stretch of the city, and it's an unpredictable experience because the area is actually laid out like a typical urban block -- right angles, perpendiculars.

I don't mean to disrespect the designers or artists, but Solaris City is a wasted opportunity. The streets are mostly winding or oblique, encouraging the natural tendency to lead right and counter-clockwise. As said earlier, the center of the map is the worst offender. Occasionally I'll hold back in the second ring for variety and see if the team follows before I end up exposed at the end of the line.

What I would have given for a real city: big main streets with map-long sight lines but dozens of boxed alleys, most of them at angles that force players to think differently. A couple square parks but away from the center.

Missed opportunity.

[Bud Crue]

I wish they would have made an entire map like the building areas of River City. I mix of narrow and broad avenues. Big and small buildings, of which some you can see over and under, others making blind turns, a few you can cut through, etc. A brawlers heaven. Yes I know that an entire map like that would be limiting, but so what? It would have been great to have a true urban combat feel on at least one map. I had hoped Solaris would be like that. But, no.

[KodiakGW]

People were screaming for a new urban map. Well, they got it.

To be fair, I doubt too much time was spent creating that map.