51 replies to this topic

[Peter2k]

November11th, on 15 November 2018 - 07:29 PM, said:

This whole thread is alot to digest, but im working on it. Are there resources out there that can teach me what each individual component does and how it interacts with the others?

Also thanks again everyome! I love the tech geek out that is happening here. Who said that GD couldnt produce constructive discussions eh? I dont see a 'brown sea'here ;P

Err, that basic ehh?

Ahh we all started somewhere.

Maybe here:

https://www.gamespot...ned/2900-642/3/

A little bit dated, but that's natural in the PC space , fast moving and stuff

At least it gets some basics across

Edited by Peter2k, 15 November 2018 - 08:52 PM.

[InvictusLee]

Peter2k, on 15 November 2018 - 08:43 PM, said:

Err, that basic ehh?

Ahh we all started somewhere.

Maybe here:

https://www.gamespot...ned/2900-642/3/

A little bit dated, but that's natural in the PC space , fast moving and stuff

At least it gets some basics across

thanks! Any recomendations on best mouse/keyboard/joycon combinations and their recomended speeds?

[Vxheous]

November11th, on 15 November 2018 - 10:23 PM, said:

thanks! Any recomendations on best mouse/keyboard/joycon combinations and their recomended speeds?

Get a nice mechanical keyboard with a switch type that you like. Lots of good gaming mice out there, personally I prefer the logitech G series of mice, they just came out with a new HERO sensor that is supposed to be best on market right now. Most high end players in this game play with mouse DPI of 800-1000 in this game, and in game sensitivity between 0.1-0.2

[InvictusLee]

Vxheous, on 15 November 2018 - 10:35 PM, said:

Get a nice mechanical keyboard with a switch type that you like. Lots of good gaming mice out there, personally I prefer the logitech G series of mice, they just came out with a new HERO sensor that is supposed to be best on market right now. Most high end players in this game play with mouse DPI of 800-1000 in this game, and in game sensitivity between 0.1-0.2

that is extremely helpful! Thanks so much!

[Peter2k]

November11th, on 15 November 2018 - 10:37 PM, said:

that is extremely helpful! Thanks so much!

It is worth noting that if you can get to a store that has mice and keyboards to actually get a feel.
Everyone has different hands and mice can feel unnatural or uncomfortable despite being expensive/high quality for instance.
That said, I think you can't really go wrong with Logitech, especially a Logitech G MX518, which was and is still popular and is getting a refresh (new hardware inside, getting a HERO sensor for instance, old on the outside)
https://www.logitech...ming-mouse.html

For me, personally, I dont like the increased pressure points from mechanical keyboards.
However different switches (under the keys) have different resistances.

So if one can its nice to get an actual feel, especially since it may cost quite a penny (However my old Logitech mouse held 10 years I think, and i replaced it only because i wanted a wireless mouse, must still be in the basement tucked away as backup somewhere)

Edited by Peter2k, 15 November 2018 - 10:58 PM.

[ForceUser]

Surprised no one mentioned picking up a Ryzen 7 2700x. Comes with a very respectable cooler that is more than enough for the CPU, even has RGB.

The 2nd gen motherboards B450 or X470 has some really great automatic boosting on the cores meaning there really isn't much, if any overclocking headroom. This is nice if you don't want to mess with OC. both MB can however overclock if you want to do that.

The 2nd gen MBs also have better RAM support out of the box than the previous gen. Grabbing 2 8GB sticks of 3200 or 3400 DDR4 ram means you'll get the most out of the Ryzen CPU and you can always grab 2 more 8GB sticks later if you need them although that's doubtful for the foreseeable future.

A GTX 1070/GTX 1070ti/RX590(just released) should be enough to max out all settings at 1080p and have well above 60 fps without running into any VRAM issues like I'm seeing on my GTX 970. I'd stay away from the latest 2070/2080 cards as they are ridiculously overpriced. Unless you want to get in on ray tracing for MW5 but it looks like the minimum you'll want to go for is a 2080 and that's a huge investment. The 2070 really has no place currently.

Also get a good case that is well known for good cooling/airflow. Look online for reviews from Hardware Canucks. By far the best reviews of cases in my opinion. You don't need to go overboard with fans but a few extra depending on the case won't hurt.

A solid PSU is important but because you wont be picking up an intel CPU you wont need a mini nuclear reactor. A silver/gold 600w or more PSU is more than enough.

Also an SSD has a pretty sizable impact on most games but especially for MWO. Get a decent samsung 960 Evo or heck, you can even get a m.2 SSD.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

ForceUser, on 16 November 2018 - 04:39 AM, said:

Surprised no one mentioned picking up a Ryzen 7 2700x. Comes with a very respectable cooler that is more than enough for the CPU, even has RGB.

The 2nd gen motherboards B450 or X470 has some really great automatic boosting on the cores meaning there really isn't much, if any overclocking headroom. This is nice if you don't want to mess with OC. both MB can however overclock if you want to do that.

The 2nd gen MBs also have better RAM support out of the box than the previous gen. Grabbing 2 8GB sticks of 3200 or 3400 DDR4 ram means you'll get the most out of the Ryzen CPU and you can always grab 2 more 8GB sticks later if you need them although that's doubtful for the foreseeable future.

A GTX 1070/GTX 1070ti/RX590(just released) should be enough to max out all settings at 1080p and have well above 60 fps without running into any VRAM issues like I'm seeing on my GTX 970. I'd stay away from the latest 2070/2080 cards as they are ridiculously overpriced. Unless you want to get in on ray tracing for MW5 but it looks like the minimum you'll want to go for is a 2080 and that's a huge investment. The 2070 really has no place currently.

Also get a good case that is well known for good cooling/airflow. Look online for reviews from Hardware Canucks. By far the best reviews of cases in my opinion. You don't need to go overboard with fans but a few extra depending on the case won't hurt.

A solid PSU is important but because you wont be picking up an intel CPU you wont need a mini nuclear reactor. A silver/gold 600w or more PSU is more than enough.

Also an SSD has a pretty sizable impact on most games but especially for MWO. Get a decent samsung 960 Evo or heck, you can even get a m.2 SSD.

Noone mentioned the top line ryzen 7 because you can get two pretty decent ryzen 5 for the same price (or a good ryzen + top line AIO liquid cooling).
The Wraith prism (the name of the stock cooler for the 2700x) is good if you want to run the cpu with stock setting. Noones gonna buy a 2700x (x being open clocking settings variant) and a b/x board and not overclock it. That's just wasting money.
Besides, the stock fan for the 2700x is loud, more then twice as loud as a decent AIO cooler.

Everything you mentioned is about twice as expensive as a decent alternative. Like a 1070 ti is like 400 bucks vs a 580 for 200 bucks (which also can handle MWO, and most current games with full specs at 1080p).
3400 mhz ram with decent timings is probably around 200 bucks for 16gb, that again ist twice as much as a 3000mhz kit.

I am not saying what you mentioned is bad, it's not, far from it. It's just not what OP asked for.
I can agree with everything you mentioned expect for the wraith prism stock cooler. Don't buy that cooler, it's loud and can't handle overclocking that well (why buying a cpu/board specific for overclocking in the first place).

November11th, on 14 November 2018 - 08:25 PM, said:

What would a good PC build that is realtively quiet, and has liquid cooling,

November11th, on 14 November 2018 - 08:25 PM, said:

Budget is unlimited, but Im thinking about building more than one unit, so the cheapest total cost while running full game textures/fx with atleast 60FPS would be awesome.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 16 November 2018 - 06:46 AM.

[Spheroid]

ForceUser, on 16 November 2018 - 04:39 AM, said:

Surprised no one mentioned picking up a Ryzen 7 2700x. Comes with a very respectable cooler that is more than enough for the CPU, even has RGB.

No one mentioned it because the OP asked for a build tailored around MWO specifically. MWO as a single threaded game would not perform better on AMD. Intel is better in this regard. Its not a matter of opinion. I am pro AMD and easily concede this point.

[InvictusLee]

Spheroid, on 16 November 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

No one mentioned it because the OP asked for a build tailored around MWO specifically. MWO as a single threaded game would not perform better on AMD. Intel is better in this regard. Its not a matter of opinion. I am pro AMD and easily concede this point.

and this is music to the ears of the tech ignorant like me! Lol

[ForceUser]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 16 November 2018 - 05:59 AM, said:

Noone mentioned the top line ryzen 7 because you can get two pretty decent ryzen 5 for the same price (or a good ryzen + top line AIO liquid cooling).
The Wraith prism (the name of the stock cooler for the 2700x) is good if you want to run the cpu with stock setting. Noones gonna buy a 2700x (x being open clocking settings variant) and a b/x board and not overclock it. That's just wasting money.
Besides, the stock fan for the 2700x is loud, more then twice as loud as a decent AIO cooler.

Everything you mentioned is about twice as expensive as a decent alternative. Like a 1070 ti is like 400 bucks vs a 580 for 200 bucks (which also can handle MWO, and most current games with full specs at 1080p).
3400 mhz ram with decent timings is probably around 200 bucks for 16gb, that again ist twice as much as a 3000mhz kit.

I am not saying what you mentioned is bad, it's not, far from it. It's just not what OP asked for.
I can agree with everything you mentioned expect for the wraith prism stock cooler. Don't buy that cooler, it's loud and can't handle overclocking that well (why buying a cpu/board specific for overclocking in the first place).

The OP said his budget is unlimited. That said I didn't suggest an Intel 9900K either so cool your jets.

Also you have a bunch of misleading or outright incorrect info in your post.

1st off misleading. A smaller CPU, say a 2600 or 2600x will cost the same as a 2700X if you buy a separate high end cooler for them. I suggested specifically the 2700x because the cooler that comes with it is probably worth a decent $50 cooler.

That said a 2600x is also a great purchase and if budget was a concern that or the 2600 would be the one I would suggest as those are the current best value per $ CPUs on the market.

False information: Both the X and non-X versions of the CPUs are overclockable. The X versions just have higher base and boost clocks and might be slightly higher quality silicone but that only equates to at most 100 or so extra GHZ if you manually overclock it with a high end AIO. The advantage of the X version is 1) better stock cooler and 2) less reason to overclock it as it already has higher base and boost clocks. Reading the thread the OP has never really overclocked, so that would be ideal, especially considering the margins for overclocking isn't really there with 2nd gen Zen. I mean you can, but the gains isn't great.

Misleading: You mention that you buy the wraith prism cooler (I think you misspoke but to clarify), it comes with the 2700X free and is a very good cooler, the OP can look at reviews of it. It'll handle the 2700X at it's stock and boost speeds without thermal throttling. That said the stock 2600X cooler should do the same. With the 2nd gen Ryzens they slightly downgraded the non X CPUs coolers so if he is going to pick up a 2700 or 2600 non X then a $50 air cooler (again no need for a $100 AIO) is more than enough even with overclocking.

Misleading: The RAM speed makes a difference, a big enough one to warrant getting at least 3200 speed RAM. That's just how Ryzen 1st and 2nd gen works and the price difference is not that big, especially with DRAM prices coming down currently.

Misleading: Overlcoking is not the only reason to buy a B/X Motherboard. There are additional features to do with the Boost 2.0 tech and other stuff that came with the 2nd gen Ryzen CPUs and MBs that make it worth picking up a decent B or cheaper X motherboard.

Again, I specifically listed what I did, instead of the rig I am currently running (R5 1600, 3200 RAM (REQUIRED), cheap B350 MB) because the op originally stated no budget so I don't really care about the objections regarding pricing. The components are all still close to best value for money. You get what you pay for. I even included the RX590 that's current going for $280 and includes 3 free AAA tritles. Reviews show it to be between the 1060/RX580 and 1070 in performance.

I know how MWO handles on the hardware I have and I can't guarantee 60fpd at all max settings at all times. It's usually 60fps+ but if I want to 60+ fps I had to turn down one or two settings. The build I suggested is in the right ballpark for what the OP wanted guaranteed 60fps at max settings and based on the no budget note without going stupid overboard.

Edited by ForceUser, 17 November 2018 - 03:52 AM.

[ForceUser]

Spheroid, on 16 November 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

No one mentioned it because the OP asked for a build tailored around MWO specifically. MWO as a single threaded game would not perform better on AMD. Intel is better in this regard. Its not a matter of opinion. I am pro AMD and easily concede this point.

This is not actually true, MWO does utilize more than one core and the 2700X does have both the highest boost speed and best potential overclock (of AMD CPUs). That said a 2600x is also plenty sufficient. Another reason for the picking the X in the 2nd gen instead of the non X like you would with 1st gen is due to the stock coolers. If you are going to spend $50 or $100 on cooling, sure pick up the non X variant.

Intel is stupid overpriced, you need top line MB to overclock and there is little to no future proofing. AM4 socket is going to be supported till 2020. I used intel my entire life so I have nothing against them, AMD is just a better buy at the moment.

Edited by ForceUser, 17 November 2018 - 03:50 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

ForceUser, on 17 November 2018 - 03:48 AM, said:

Intel is stupid overpriced, you need top line MB to overclock

No you don't.

[The Lighthouse]

justcallme A S H, on 17 November 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

No you don't.

In general Intel motherboard and CPU are usually more expensive than AMD AM4. It's far more severe these days.


The problem is that current Ryzen CPUs are very sensitive to RAM performance, and those RAM sticks that work well with Ryzen are tend to be very expensive, almost effectively canceling out price difference. Though these days Intel CPUs are so overpriced in street that even with expensive RAM Ryzen comes out top.




That said, it is not really a great idea to build a computer for a specific game. People change, games change, computer change. I have witnessed that those people would eventually get hit hard by buyer's remorse.

OP, unfortunately you are building computer at the worst time possible. Intel is overpriced, Nvidia is overpriced and their more reasonable GTX lines are gone now, and AMD GPU are in rather bad shape. Only saving grace is Ryzen.

I suggest you wait for about another 6 months and see new Zen 2 based Ryzen and maybe GPU price is stabilized at that time.

[dwwolf]

Expect to pay ~40$ more for a 16 gb RAM kit (samsung b die 3200 rated) to get the most out of a Ryzen CPU.
Easily ofset by lntel CPU rising cost due to production shortages.
And the pricier motherboards.

Midrange GPU are ruled by RX 580 and now the RX590. GTX 1060 is more expensive and generally performs a bit less than the RX 580. Nvidia GTX 1070 and 1080 are almost gone now and climbing in price again.

Does MWO really need something more than an RX 580 at 1920x1080 or 2560x1440 ?

Edited by dwwolf, 18 November 2018 - 01:43 AM.

[dwwolf]

Peter2k, on 15 November 2018 - 04:28 PM, said:

Well I think no one mentioned a custom loop, only AiO, and those are more a preference then a necessity, but still quite affordable.

Only one thing I would deviate from your opinion.

I think a 8700K would be better as this IS supposed to be a MWO centric build.

The 8700K boosts up to 4.7Ghz

The 7700K to 4.5
(7700 non K to 4.2)

The 6700K to 4.2
(6700 non K is only 4Ghz)

It does make a difference in MWO.
You can get away with a GTX 1060 even above 1080p (it's just that at this moment there might be more used 10xx cards on the market pushing the price down, why not take advantage while stock lasts?), but for MWO one shouldn't be cheap on the CPU.
I mean if the budget really isn't a problem to put in another 100 bucks into the CPU then I'd even go 8086K, 5Ghz boost.

I'd go only 7700K these days if I can get a really good deal on it, however a 8700K would be beneficial in more modern games as well.

Why on earth would you get a 1060 ? It more expensive than an RX 580 8gb and performs worse.

Edited by dwwolf, 18 November 2018 - 01:49 AM.

[Peter2k]

dwwolf, on 18 November 2018 - 01:42 AM, said:

Expect to pay ~40$ more for a 16 gb RAM kit (samsung b die 3200 rated) to get the most out of a Ryzen CPU.

Intel profits from better RAM speed as well, just not as much.

Spoiler

Of course Ryzen the most, because of the infinity fabric.
Wonder if AMD ever unlocks the speed of the fabric from the RAM speed, like Intel does on its HEDT with Mesh.

Also I wish one could buy B-Dies directly.
That said 3200 CL14 should be B-Dies.

dwwolf, on 18 November 2018 - 01:42 AM, said:

Midrange GPU are ruled by RX 580 and now the RX590. GTX 1060 is more expensive and generally performs a bit less than the RX 580. Nvidia GTX 1070 and 1080 are almost gone now and climbing in price again.

Again, depends on the deals you can find, I can still find some good deals here in Germany and Europe.
Of course while it lasts.

dwwolf, on 18 November 2018 - 01:42 AM, said:

Does MWO really need something more than an RX 580 at 1920x1080 or 2560x1440 ?

no
CPU is still more important

I had a GTX 1060 before, was more than enough in 2560x1080.

dwwolf, on 18 November 2018 - 01:48 AM, said:

Why on earth would you get a 1060 ? It more expensive than an RX 580 8gb and performs worse.

And?

I said you can get away with a 1060 above 1080p performance wise.
RX580 is actually better, so you are more agreeing with me then anything else.
While worth being mentioned that a 1060 isn't even middle class any more if you count all Nvidia offers.

10xx cards can also mean 1070 or 1080, just depends on the deal you can find.


I wouldn't buy any of those cards new at the moment anyway.
So it does highly depend on the deal you can find.

That said, in a build specifically mentioned "no money restrictions" I wouldn't even look below a 1070, probably not even a 1080 any more, as you can find some sweet used ones these days.


Or maybe your more triggered by me mentioning Nvidia instead of AMD, shrugs.

justcallme A S H, on 17 November 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

No you don't.

err, well.

For overclocking you need a Z board, doesn't work on another line of chipset.
I'm also not sure if you can get the full turbo boost on the other ones.

Or if we talk about multi core enhancement, boosting all cores to say 4.8 or more Ghz, that should only work on a Z board.


That said, Z boards don't need to be as pricey as 400 bucks of course.

Any "cheap" Z board will do, its a matter of features one wants really.

The Lighthouse, on 17 November 2018 - 04:25 PM, said:

snip

Well, guess depends where you live.

A 8700K is a good choice for any game though, MWO as well.

Sure Zen 2 will probably be interesting, but if you wait 6 months, then you could say why not wait another 6?
Its the nature of hardware that something better will come out.,

BTW, I would agree that the 9th gen Intel chips are not that interesting price/performance wise, either to a 8700K or an AMD chip.

Edited by Peter2k, 18 November 2018 - 08:52 AM.

[Peter2k]

ForceUser, on 17 November 2018 - 03:40 AM, said:

I can't guarantee 60fpd at all max settings at all times. It's usually 60fps+ but if I want to 60+ fps I had to turn down one or two settings. The build I suggested is in the right ballpark for what the OP wanted guaranteed 60fps at max settings and based on the no budget note without going stupid overboard.

fun fact.

My system handles Kingdom Come Deliverance beautifully at maxed settings, including some ini tweaks for better LOD. (actually hard locked at 75fps, as my "old Display" only has 75Hz, 2560x1080)

Look at the fps counter

Spoiler

Sure usually I'm well above 100fps in MWO, and yes its just some dips on that one map (but no stutter) but that Solaris City can get a RTX2080ti that far down does not speak well for MWO really.

November11th, on 16 November 2018 - 08:21 PM, said:

and this is music to the ears of the tech ignorant like me! Lol

Its actually quite simple for MWO.

If you had both AMD Ryzen and an Intel i5/i7 locked at 4Ghz, then the performance would be about the same (and the first generation of Ryzen had trouble reaching 4Ghz at all).

Intels advantage here is that it can reach up to 5ghz, depending on your choice of CPU.
Intel chips can more or less just brute force they`re way past AMD in his regard.

AMD Ryzen can perform better, but only if you can use all the cores it brings compared to an Intel chip at the same price.

And as you have a MWO specific build in mind, well MWO does not scale beyond 4 cores; 6 or 8 will not give you anything in return, except of course if you want to record your games (and content creation,like rendering your recorded games).


More modern games do scale very well with more cores.
And MWO is 6 years old now without any work being done into improving this problem.

Will see how MW5 will perform, using a newer engine.

Edited by Peter2k, 18 November 2018 - 09:12 AM.

[InvictusLee]

Peter2k, on 18 November 2018 - 09:00 AM, said:

fun fact.

My system handles Kingdom Come Deliverance beautifully at maxed settings, including some ini tweaks for better LOD. (actually hard locked at 75fps, as my "old Display" only has 75Hz, 2560x1080)

Look at the fps counter

Spoiler

Sure usually I'm well above 100fps in MWO, and yes its just some dips on that one map (but no stutter) but that Solaris City can get a RTX2080ti that far down does not speak well for MWO really.



Its actually quite simple for MWO.

If you had both AMD Ryzen and an Intel i5/i7 locked at 4Ghz, then the performance would be about the same (and the first generation of Ryzen had trouble reaching 4Ghz at all).

Intels advantage here is that it can reach up to 5ghz, depending on your choice of CPU.
Intel chips can more or less just brute force they`re way past AMD in his regard.

AMD Ryzen can perform better, but only if you can use all the cores it brings compared to an Intel chip at the same price.

And as you have a MWO specific build in mind, well MWO does not scale beyond 4 cores; 6 or 8 will not give you anything in return, except of course if you want to record your games (and content creation,like rendering your recorded games).


More modern games do scale very well with more cores.
And MWO is 6 years old now without any work being done into improving this problem.

Will see how MW5 will perform, using a newer engine.

interesting.
I might be interested in twitch streaming and video editing at some point.

[justcallme A S H]

Peter2k, on 18 November 2018 - 08:35 AM, said:

For overclocking you need a Z board, doesn't work on another line of chipset.
I'm also not sure if you can get the full turbo boost on the other ones.

Or if we talk about multi core enhancement, boosting all cores to say 4.8 or more Ghz, that should only work on a Z board.

That said, Z boards don't need to be as pricey as 400 bucks of course.

Any "cheap" Z board will do, its a matter of features one wants really.

Well yeah - but it doesnt need to be $$. Mine was $280AUD which is less than $200USD and I could've gone a $150USD board easily and clocked just as hard. I just wanted a few more features

[UnofficialOperator]

If budget is unlimited you need to build something which can run above 100 fps with a 144hz monitor.

FFS though, build your pc for some other game instead. I would give MWO until late 2019 or early 2020.