24 replies to this topic

[Lux Monolithic]

I was playing my loyalty LBK with 6 JJs and I thought to myself... The JJs really don't offer a great benefit compared to not having them, obviously you actually lose a lot of power in exchange for some mobility. Taking 6 slots and 6 tons.

In exchange for that loss of firepower/cooling, why not give a sizeable armor bonus? If you're going to have some fun with JJs, why not make the mech more survivable? It's not like you're gonna be op with 6 JJs, really the opposite. But adding survivability would at least make it more fun and usable.

What do you guys think? How do you use the JJ LBK?

I know it doesn't make sense to lore, but that doesn't matter to me because I'd rather have the game be more fun to play.

And by bonus I mean something like for all mechs, each JJ you equip boosts armor in some way.

Edited by Illuminous Owl, 19 November 2018 - 05:04 AM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

hm... so jump snipers are not only difficult to hit, they also eat more hits. Seems legit.

[Sjorpha]

If you don't think 6JJs are worth the tonnage it you can change the torso omnipods so have 3 or 0 jjs whichever you find optimal.

It's a pretty good 2erppc jumpsniper with the 6jjs though.

Sure you could put some durability quirk specifically on those omnipods but IMO that's not warranted as the option to put jjs on you mech is pretty good in itself.

[Foxfire kadrpg]

I am still salty over the 2012 nerf to jumpjets, where heavy and assault jumpjets became so ineffective at even terrain navigation.

My proposal;
reduce recharge to 1/3 the rate
increase thrust to about 300% of current rate
if "poptarting' is still something people are uncomfortable with, remove the ability to fire weapons while airborne if jumpjets have been fired.
modify maps so that all terrain can eventually be reached or fired upon by non-jumpjet mechs.

that would make jumpets worth it, in my opinion. As a strict maneuver tool.

[El Bandito]

Canonically it was nigh impossible to hit a target while jumping in a mech, so yeah I say bring back the old JJs at the expense of accuracy. Which will hurt the poptarts all the while improving jump brawling--a win win for me.

[Battlemaster56]

Rather have good jj's and poptarting left unhurt, if people don't like that's their problem no need to curbstomp a playstyle. Plus it the only useful thing the Summoner got left that hasn't been done better by other mechs.

[El Bandito]

Battlemaster56, on 19 November 2018 - 07:04 AM, said:

Rather have good jj's and poptarting left unhurt, if people don't like that's their problem no need to curbstomp a playstyle. Plus it the only useful thing the Summoner got left that hasn't been done better by other mechs.

5xSRM6 Summoner can be a good jump brawler. PGI can quirk it up more anyway. I'd rather sacrifice the Summoner and long range poptarting playstyle than have my Assaults and Heavies run with crap JJs. History shows PPFLD + good JJ combination has never been good for this game. Heck, if good JJs return to Assaults/Heavies without shake penalties while free falling, then we are risking another round of nerfs for long range PPFLD weapons.

[Nightbird]

Unless you also make any JJ rattle apply to missile locks, it'll turn into LRM rain poptarters paradise

[Racerxintegra2k]

MASC reticle shake while in the air. Unlock the jump jets after that.

Edited by Racerxintegra2k, 19 November 2018 - 08:00 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

El Bandito, on 19 November 2018 - 07:42 AM, said:

5xSRM6 Summoner can be a good jump brawler. PGI can quirk it up more anyway. I'd rather sacrifice the Summoner and long range poptarting playstyle than have my Assaults and Heavies run with crap JJs. History shows PPFLD + good JJ combination has never been good for this game. Heck, if good JJs return to Assaults/Heavies without shake penalties while free falling, then we are risking another round of nerfs for long range PPFLD weapons.

Pretty much the Phaket beats the Summoner doing that with more fire power while being 20 tons lighter, and better jj's. So let's go with your idea of stomping out the Summoner poptarting playstyle, for better jj's for assaults and heavies. As you said it can do srm brawling but then again the Phaket exist, even with out the hero pods it can still do 6x srm6 bomber build. Laser vomit you can do but their 4 heavies that can do it better plus a medium, Guass Night Gyr, Ballistics Night Gyr again, LURM's/ATM's Mad Dog pretty much dominates it while the Timberwolf, Summoner, Huntsman, and Hunchie IIC just sit in second with the Supernova A nuke just there existing.

Well I mean players complain about any ppfld meta that's why we lost guass/ppc combo because everyone complain about it the last time it was on top, when lasers was making a huge comeback.

[Gristle Missile]

Nightbird, on 19 November 2018 - 07:48 AM, said:

Unless you also make any JJ rattle apply to missile locks, it'll turn into LRM rain poptarters paradise

Im not saying his idea is good, but I abuse this on the TBT-7M with LRMS and Phaket with streaks - it works pretty well but not thinking its blatantly op

Edited by Gristle Missile, 19 November 2018 - 06:02 PM.

[Nightbird]

Gristle Missile, on 19 November 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

I abuse this on the TRB-7M with LRMS and Phaket with streaks - it works pretty well but not thinking its blatantly op

Can your TBT or PHK run LRM80 or ATM48?

[Brauer]

El Bandito, on 19 November 2018 - 07:42 AM, said:

5xSRM6 Summoner can be a good jump brawler. PGI can quirk it up more anyway. I'd rather sacrifice the Summoner and long range poptarting playstyle than have my Assaults and Heavies run with crap JJs. History shows PPFLD + good JJ combination has never been good for this game. Heck, if good JJs return to Assaults/Heavies without shake penalties while free falling, then we are risking another round of nerfs for long range PPFLD weapons.

ATMx27 Summoner is a blast too. Though I admittedly haven't run it much since the lock on nerfs.

[Gristle Missile]

Nightbird, on 19 November 2018 - 12:13 PM, said:

Can your TBT or PHK run LRM80 or ATM48?

No but neither can anything else that can get decent jump height

[El Bandito]

Nightbird, on 19 November 2018 - 07:48 AM, said:

Unless you also make any JJ rattle apply to missile locks, it'll turn into LRM rain poptarters paradise

LRM lock area has been significantly reduced already so I think the current shake, if retained on the way down, will be enough to throw off the lock. Besides, it will mean those LRM boats will need to expose themselves to counter fire since locks are not instant. Which is why min-max LRM boats with 4000 ammo want to avoid getting hit the first place by relying on Narcers.

I am not worried about LRMtarts.

[General Solo]

more nerf suggestions
no thanks

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Foxfire kadrpg, on 19 November 2018 - 06:38 AM, said:

I am still salty over the 2012 nerf to jumpjets, where heavy and assault jumpjets became so ineffective at even terrain navigation.

My proposal;
reduce recharge to 1/3 the rate
increase thrust to about 300% of current rate
if "poptarting' is still something people are uncomfortable with, remove the ability to fire weapons while airborne if jumpjets have been fired.
modify maps so that all terrain can eventually be reached or fired upon by non-jumpjet mechs.

that would make jumpets worth it, in my opinion. As a strict maneuver tool.

That could actually improve things in terms of JJs for larger mechs (classes III-I): trade better thrust for longer reload. Big boys could jump too, just too rarely to rely on poptarting alone to win. Summoners and the like could have jump cooldown quirks.

[Nightbird]

El Bandito, on 20 November 2018 - 03:15 AM, said:

LRM lock area has been significantly reduced already so I think the current shake, if retained on the way down, will be enough to throw off the lock. Besides, it will mean those LRM boats will need to expose themselves to counter fire since locks are not instant. Which is why min-max LRM boats with 4000 ammo want to avoid getting hit the first place by relying on Narcers.

I am not worried about LRMtarts.

I respectfully disagree. You can easily lock targets on the way up today while JJing (already shakes when JJ engaged), and ATM/Streak poptarting is already a thing. If we completely undernerf JJs (a Supernova can jump to the top of HPG Manifold wall with one jump), then we'd need a feature like you can't lock targets will in midair. If the community is willing to accept that then I'd be all for it... otherwise the gameplay will devolve into jump lock missiles which would be completely ridiculous.

[El Bandito]

Nightbird, on 20 November 2018 - 02:51 PM, said:

I respectfully disagree. You can easily lock targets on the way up today while JJing (already shakes when JJ engaged), and ATM/Streak poptarting is already a thing. If we completely undernerf JJs (a Supernova can jump to the top of HPG Manifold wall with one jump), then we'd need a feature like you can't lock targets will in midair. If the community is willing to accept that then I'd be all for it... otherwise the gameplay will devolve into jump lock missiles which would be completely ridiculous.

Even back in 2013 and 2014, when JJ boost were not nerfed and there was no shake, and LRMs had 2x more damage + splash, LRMtarting wasn't popular. Why would it be popular now? And I say that as a person who mained JJ capable LRM boats such as the A1 and the 733 during those days.

Not to mention Narcers do their job so well in organized play nowadays thus minimizing the need for LRM boats to expose themselves to counter fire. I have yet to see any good unit pulling off LRMtarting as strat. ATMs + Streaks are generally used in 150-350 meter range with JJs, which is why the shake is not too much of a factor for locks, but if a LRM dedicated Assault wanna LRMtart from 600-800 meters away, the shake will be severe enough to break the lock, especially if the target is moving.

TBF, I am completely fine even if PGI disables weapon fire during a jump, if that means we are bringing the old JJs back. Would be nice to introduce DFA though.

Edited by El Bandito, 20 November 2018 - 04:26 PM.

[Nightbird]

El Bandito, on 20 November 2018 - 04:15 PM, said:

Even back in 2013 and 2014, when JJ boost were not nerfed and there was no shake, and LRMs had 2x more damage + splash, LRMtarting wasn't popular. Why would it be popular now?

Especially since Narcers do their job so well in organized play? I have yet to see any good unit pulling off LRMtarting as strat.

Supernovas, MCIIs, ATMs didn't exist then? Also, JJ direct fire would obviously be superior if both are available..

Edited by Nightbird, 20 November 2018 - 04:26 PM.