28 replies to this topic

[Dee Eight]

...that the only solution at this stage to the solo queue matchmaker issue is to dump the whole notion of tiers, elo, psr or any sort of skill based team matching and just go with one bucket where folks are totally random selected ??? There simply isn't the player pool even during NA peak times any longer for anything else to work. ASH's rejigging the formula and global reset idea might have worked in May when the population nearly equaled the peaks from 2 years ago, and when the population was 50% higher than it is currenly..but now... not a chance.

When the peak NA time only has a couple thousand players online at once, and not all of them are even in the Solo queue, then its time to try something radical and new. Because repeating the same tier matching over and over that everyone has shown doesn't work, while expecting a different result is the very definition of insanity. And its pretty obvious how sparse the player pool of Tier 1s is when so many of any particular streamers viewers can sync drop matches with them successfully match after match after match. I've done strings of a dozen drops in a row with Sean "Phil" Lang and/or Violent Blue in the solo queue. Phil's ranked 145, Violent's 9,399 and I'm currently 11,811 on Jarl's overall leaderboard. I've also had strings the past week with E N D O R U S H who's ranked 7th overall with no effort at all to trying to sync. Matchmaker is just pulling from whats available with Tier 1s before moving onto 2s and 3s.

The only other solution is to disable voice comms and team/lance chats once a solo queue match gets underway to eliminate "coordination" where the top players rally the crap ones. This will also serve a goal of eliminating the salt that spews after X player doesn't like how Y, Z and whoever else played, which turns off many new players and sees them uninstall the game never to return.

[tutzdes]

Is it trolling, sarcasm or what?

Why do you want to totally destroy the small influx of the new players the game still has?

No tiers, no ELO = in every game there will be there Tier 5 puggies, stomped by several Tier 1's and leaving after first dozen of games or so, due to inability to kill anyone and dying almost instantly.

Due to the absence of chat/comms they will stand no chance vs even bad vets, as vets know what tactics works for any map already. So, a couple of Top 1000 dudes will just find each other and form the lance naturally without saying a word. They'll kill whole enemy team without problem as there will be no chance for newbies to react to the threat. Comms/chat helps newbies more than vets, as vets can have coordination without much communication.

Sync dropping is not an issue as for me. It occurs naturally a lot, when players just press "fight now" match after the match. It works for any online game.

Chat salt is a "feature" of any PvP game. Nobody, except for extremely dumb people, will leave the game due to salty comms/chat.

TLDR: All you points are invalid and you should feel sorry for starting the tops ^___^
PS: Salt for the Salt God! Hostility for the Forums!

[Dee Eight]

tutzdes, on 25 November 2018 - 04:51 AM, said:

Why do you want to totally destroy the small influx of the new players the game still has?

Are you one of those naive people who believes it when PGI says they're not mixing tier 4s in with the 1s already, or that doesn't understand that the current method of mixing crap players with good players, simply because they're the same "tier" is a failure ?

Quote

No tiers, no ELO = in every game there will be there Tier 5 puggies, stomped by several Tier 1's and leaving after first dozen of games or so, due to inability to kill anyone and dying almost instantly.

How is that any different than what is happening already ? At least there'd be less frequent mixing of five top 100 players on one team and nobody better than top 1000 on the other as is currently occuring far too frequently to be a coincidence.

Quote

Due to the absence of chat/comms they will stand no chance vs even bad vets, as vets know what tactics works for any map already.

I regularly end up in matches with "vets" who still don't understand how the maps are played. Bad vets are just bad players with more time in the game. If they're still bad after 5000 matches, they're going to remain bad players forever.

[tutzdes]

Dee Eight, on 25 November 2018 - 05:31 AM, said:

How is that any different than what is happening already ? At least there'd be less frequent mixing of five top 100 players on one team and nobody better than top 1000 on the other as is currently occuring far too frequently to be a coincidence.

Coincidence? What kind of coincidence? Bad Tier 1's vs good Tier 1's? That's how matchmaking works, it is not a secret, an issue or something. Matchmaking doesn't pit bads vs goods. I have an equal chance to meet a top 100 player in my team and in opposing team. That's pretty fair and that's why bads will have W/L<1 and goods >1 anyway.

Currently new players are pitted vs bad players for first several hundreds games. What you propose is to make them meet T1's every game. Even the totally inept T1 will seal-club 99% of sub-100-games newbies.

After removal of the Tier-rating buffer zone for newbies the game will suffer catastrophic loss of players.

For Top 1000 vets there will be game after game without an real opposition, which is extremely boring. In fact, most good players are very glad to see the equal in opposing team and they hail each other happily. With the dilution of tiers this won't happen often. So they will quit or all move to GQ/FP.

Newbies will go away, bc they will see stomps every game while being unable to do anything even vs 50% percentile tactically inept old-timers.

It will only favour very-very bad T1's, who want to destroy puggies, but are forced to fight equal or better players all the time. They will happily to hunt down the newbies for a bit before the game withers due to the absence of new players.

Someone should be a terrible person and player to want this. That's weird, as according to stats, you are not the best player, but can at least pull your weight in QP. So, why would you want to destroy PuG-ies in no-opposition boring-fest is beyond me. Unless you don't really understand the repercussions of the things you're proposing. And you're posting it here without much thought process involved and it is just a temporal delusion.

Edited by tutzdes, 25 November 2018 - 06:00 AM.

[IronWatch]

The matchmaker could use some work but these suggestions are terrible. Balance by removing coordination? Seriosuly?

[Lightfoot]

move along...

[Dogstar]

Personally I think Dee's right. The matchmaker does nothing at all to separate good from bad players and the tier system is only marginally better then a count of number of games played and is abandoned anyway as soon as queue times go up.

and we discussed, at length, about how unlikely you are to run into a really good player in the 'for £$%^'s sake allow two man group into the quick play queue' threads a couple of months ago.

[Tarl Cabot]

This suggestion is about working within the current setup.

• Realignment/Reseed of Tiers, not a total reset, utilizing active players. Then seed inactive players into appropriate tier.
  
• Solo / Group queue PSR - If keeping it combined and if not able to show separated stats for each, an indicator the player has dropped x amount of drops in Group queue for last 30-45 days.
  
• PSR range - either make the MS thresholds dynamic or increase the static thresholds on a win. Not sure if MS thresholds on a lost should be any change should be made but if so a slight decrease on thresholds.
  
• Show KMMD
  
• Combine portions of Tiers into segments. Have MM use AMS for upto the last 300? games while breaking it up into segments, Tier 1 to Tier 2.5 and Tier 2.49 to Tier 3.25, Tier 3.49 to Tier 4.25, Tier 4.49 to Tier 5.
  
• Consider adding one more tier then group tiers while doing the previously notated items, and new players would start in Tier 6.
  
• In 6 months review for adjustments.

Though Jarl's List currently does not have the ability to limit the number of seasons to calculate some items, Players by Average Match Score With > 500 Games could show how a realignment would look like.


https://leaderboard....tats#scorechart

[razenWing]

you guys know that when there's not enough players, PSR doesn't kick in, right?

So... when you have 20 min que time in solo drop, it's not that there aren't 24 tier 1-3 players, it's that there are literally not 24 players...

(sigh, now I am sad thinking about it...)

[Escef]

Dee Eight, on 25 November 2018 - 04:25 AM, said:

...that the only solution at this stage to the solo queue matchmaker issue is to dump the whole notion of tiers, elo, psr or any sort of skill based team matching and just go with one bucket where folks are totally random selected ???

I feel dumber for having read that.

[Tarl Cabot]

razenWing, on 25 November 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

you guys know that when there's not enough players, PSR doesn't kick in, right?

So... when you have 20 min que time in solo drop, it's not that there aren't 24 tier 1-3 players, it's that there are literally not 24 players...

(sigh, now I am sad thinking about it...)

By the time it would possibly reach that point PGI would have already closed down MWO, as they would be working on purchasable DLC for MW5, and no actionable central location to link people up. Others may create something but it would not be MWO...

[Khobai]

Dogstar, on 25 November 2018 - 07:48 AM, said:

Personally I think Dee's right. The matchmaker does nothing at all to separate good from bad players

Theres also absolutely zero evidence that fixing the tier system will even improve the quality of matches.

Consider that stomps happen even at the highest levels of play, so we can conclude that the problem isnt disparity of player skill, but rather inherently bad gamemodes like skirmish which promote stomps by having a snowball effect once a team loses 2-3 mechs.

Its the gamemodes that need to be fixed. The tier system isnt the main reason stomps happen. Skirmish is a crap gamemode and should be replaced with a "real" gamemode like other games have.

razenWing, on 25 November 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

you guys know that when there's not enough players, PSR doesn't kick in, right?

But it still makes you wait several minutes until the release valve opens. its still increasing the queue times as opposed to if it just let the game happen immediately.

The tier system has become utterly pointless. They should just get rid of it.

Edited by Khobai, 25 November 2018 - 12:38 PM.

[x Deathstrike x]

Mixing all tiers of players works in other games because of respawn.
If there was respawn then new players would have little wait time when dying and could adapt quicker.
Yet we dont have respawn and thus everytime a new guy mixed with elite people is killed he has to wait 5+ min to play another game and thus a chance to get better.
If you died and you would be back in the game within 10 sec then there would be no issue with being killed 10 times in a single game.

Heck imagine you could log into a game and constantly play the same map/mode till you are fedup but when you die you only have to wait 10 sec to continue playing.
The 4 mech faction selection screen would simply allow you to pick one of the four mechs you prepared over and over again.
Over the thousands of games I played in MWO I guess my wait time in queue is equal to the actual play time maybe even more than that.
When I played respawn games I had to load a map once and then could play until I was fedup with it or the map was cycled by the server.

Edited by x Deathstrike x, 25 November 2018 - 12:33 PM.

[Dee Eight]

IronWatch, on 25 November 2018 - 06:13 AM, said:

The matchmaker could use some work but these suggestions are terrible. Balance by removing coordination? Seriosuly?

How, again, would you who hasn't played the game at all, until this month, in nearly 2 1/2 years... know anything about balance, one way or another ??

[Vellron2005]

I think that the removal of Matchmaking would be the worst thing ever..

In fact, we need matchmaking to be omni-present, not removed.. but alas.. it's not meant to be..

[Dee Eight]

Tarl Cabot, on 25 November 2018 - 11:34 AM, said:

By the time it would possibly reach that point PGI would have already closed down MWO, as they would be working on purchasable DLC for MW5, and no actionable central location to link people up. Others may create something but it would not be MWO...

Are you new here ? PGI is not going to shut down as long as people keep spending dollars on virtual content to their game.

[Tarl Cabot]

Dee Eight, on 26 November 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:

Are you new here ? PGI is not going to shut down as long as people keep spending dollars on virtual content to their game.

Only as long as it is enough to pay the bills. By that time though it will only be Paul and Russ left as they will have stripped the numbers of employees down to nada....... /shudders...

[Dee Eight]

Well they're selling enough to build all those pods, give away money at mechcon, and have moved to a bigger venue.

[DisasterTheory]

Greetings from Old School land, Some of you may know who I am and some won't and that's fine so I'll get to the point here and that is none of this would have ever been a problem if PGI wouldn't have been lazy and attempted an "auto-matchmaker" system to begin with.

Back in Mechwarrior 3 we had the MSN Gaming Zone that was also used in Mechwarrior 4 with great success. In MW3 you hosted a game room, when it filled up with 8 players the host launched the game into an interior lobby that allowed the host to set matchmaking options according to what the rules of the match were. Worked excellent.

In MW4 something similar was used but in this case you could actually host "servers" with map rotation ect. This too worked Excellent.


This is what this game lacks and as far as I'm concerned is the only way to revamp multiplayer.

Forcing players into a match with strangers does nothing for Comradery.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Doesn't the Private Lobby work the way as you've described? I, too, am from the "old" days but I played games like CS 1.6, Quake 3 Arena and UT 2004, among others.