12 replies to this topic

[The pessimistic optimist]

Yea I just wanted to know how velocity worked on RACs or even if it dose at all. Tell me if I am missing something here. Ok so RAC are kind special as far as ballistic weapons go. There kind like MG in that they fire a constant stream but there not hit scan like MGs So if my RAC rounds are getting to my target quicker should it not die faster or am I missing something? I know it not firing any more rounds but the round take less time to get to the target so should it not yup time to kill? I ask because I took the loyalty Riflemen put targeting computer 6 and max fire skill velocity so it got 52.5 velocity to my ACs. So I put two RAC 5s just not sure if that 52.5 is doing anything useful.

Edited by SirSmokes, 04 December 2018 - 09:02 AM.

[Daurock]

In general terms, increasing the velocity means that you don't have to lead your target as far. Instead of aiming a half second ahead of your target, you only need to aim .4 seconds ahead instead. It's really not that dramatic for most weapons unless you're using them at the edges of your range.

It will NOT help you DPS down a target any faster in the pure sense of it. However, you may become more Accurate due to that smaller lead you use, which may help you do more damage indirectly.

Personally, i find Velocity perks only particularly valuable on very slow weapons, like LRMs, which spend a lot of time in the air before they hit their target.

Edited by Daurock, 04 December 2018 - 09:02 AM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Daurock, on 04 December 2018 - 09:02 AM, said:

In general terms, increasing the velocity means that you don't have to lead your target as far. Instead of aiming a half second ahead of your target, you only need to aim .4 seconds ahead instead. It's really not that dramatic for most weapons unless you're using them at the edges of your range.

It will NOT help you DPS down a target any faster in the pure sense of it. However, you may become more Accurate due to that smaller lead you use, which may help you do more damage indirectly.

Personally, i find Velocity perks only particularly valuable on very slow weapons, like LRMs, which spend a lot of time in the air before they hit their target.

I was a little confused because of the way RAC work vs the other ACs. Normal ACs have cool down after firing RACs do not. So if I am holding down the fire button and I aiming my damage on a target and the bullets get from point A to point B faster should that not up time to kill? 52.5% in speed is pretty big I get the aim is easier for sure with velocity it easier to hit were I aim. But I just not sure I am getting that full 52.5% that really a lot faster. If the math is right I took the 1025 velocity up to 1563. Guess I don't know how much faster 1563 is vs 1025 I guess I should test more.

Edited by SirSmokes, 04 December 2018 - 09:22 AM.

[Spheroid]

No your math is way off. A velocity node is only +3% base value. Also cooldown is completely unrelated to velocity. Cooldown has no effect on RACs at all.

Edited by Spheroid, 04 December 2018 - 09:21 AM.

[Peter2k]

SirSmokes, on 04 December 2018 - 09:08 AM, said:

I was a little confused because of the way RAC work vs the other ACs. Normal ACs have cool down after firing RACs do not. So if I am holding down the fire button and I aiming my damage on a target and the bullets get from point A to point B faster should that not up time to kill? 52.5% in speed is pretty big I get the aim is easier for sure with velocity it easier to hit were I aim. But I just not sure I am getting that full 52.5% that really a lot faster. If the math is right I took the 1025 velocity up to 1563.

But it's the cooldown of the weapon that is limiting your DPS.
And the cooldown starts when the last projectile has left the weapon (clan UAC and clan LRM are obvious in this).

The travel time of the projectile does not matter for cooldown.

And since RAC does not have a cooldown they dont work together with that skill node

Edited by Peter2k, 04 December 2018 - 09:23 AM.

[Daurock]

SirSmokes, on 04 December 2018 - 09:08 AM, said:

I was a little confused because of the way RAC work vs the other ACs. Normal ACs have cool down after firing RACs do not. So if I am holding down the fire button and I aiming my damage on a target and the bullets get from point A to point B faster should that not up time to kill? 52.5% in speed is pretty big I get the aim is easier for sure with velocity it easier to hit were I aim. But I just not sure I am getting that full 52.5% that really a lot faster. If the math is right I took the 1025 velocity up to 1563. Guess I don't know how much faster 1563 is vs 1025 I guess I should test more.

The fault you're having is that RACs DO in fact have a very short cooldown in-between shells, as do Machine guns. A machine gun fires 10 rounds per second, which gives a cooldown of 0.1 seconds. RACs I'm not of the exact number, but I think its in the 0.2s to 0.3s cooldown range. That cooldown defines how many rounds you can fire over a given time, and thus, how fast you can DPS down a target. The only thing unique about "cooldown" and these weapons is that the skill tree nodes do not affect them, because "reasons." The only way to get a faster firing MG or RAC is to go out and find a mech with a quirk that does so.

Velocity, does indeed reduce the "A" to "B" time for each individual shell. However, it does not change the time between when each shell leaves your barrel, and you can't magically have more shells hit the enemy than are coming out of your barrel.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Peter2k, on 04 December 2018 - 09:22 AM, said:

But it's the cooldown of the weapon that is limiting your DPS.
And the cooldown starts when the last projectile has left the weapon (clan UAC and clan LRM are obvious in this).

The travel time of the projectile does not matter for cooldown.

And since RAC does not have a cooldown they dont work together with that skill node

Well with loyalty Riflemen get flat 10% velocity out of the gate no skill tree. If you max skill tree velocity it adds up to 25% velocity add targeting computer 6 that goes up to 52.5%. Also if take RAC jam duration that goes up to 25% too. So yea I not really doing anymore DPS then if another mech had that 25% jam duration. I am not really doing anymore damage but my damage is getting there a lot faster.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Daurock, on 04 December 2018 - 09:30 AM, said:

The fault you're having is that RACs DO in fact have a very short cooldown in-between shells, as do Machine guns. A machine gun fires 10 rounds per second, which gives a cooldown of 0.1 seconds. RACs I'm not of the exact number, but I think its in the 0.2s to 0.3s cooldown range. That cooldown defines how many rounds you can fire over a given time, and thus, how fast you can DPS down a target. The only thing unique about "cooldown" and these weapons is that the skill tree nodes do not affect them, because "reasons." The only way to get a faster firing MG or RAC is to go out and find a mech with a quirk that does so.

Velocity, does indeed reduce the "A" to "B" time for each individual shell. However, it does not change the time between when each shell leaves your barrel, and you can't magically have more shells hit the enemy than are coming out of your barrel.

Ok I get it so they do and they don't work like other ACs. So cool down quirks have 0 effect on them got it.

[Mcgral18]

Daurock, on 04 December 2018 - 09:30 AM, said:

The fault you're having is that RACs DO in fact have a very short cooldown in-between shells, as do Machine guns. A machine gun fires 10 rounds per second, which gives a cooldown of 0.1 seconds. RACs I'm not of the exact number, but I think its in the 0.2s to 0.3s cooldown range. That cooldown defines how many rounds you can fire over a given time, and thus, how fast you can DPS down a target. The only thing unique about "cooldown" and these weapons is that the skill tree nodes do not affect them, because "reasons." The only way to get a faster firing MG or RAC is to go out and find a mech with a quirk that does so.

Velocity, does indeed reduce the "A" to "B" time for each individual shell. However, it does not change the time between when each shell leaves your barrel, and you can't magically have more shells hit the enemy than are coming out of your barrel.

Strictly speaking, not cooldown
A unique attribute called "rof" or rate of fire

<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\RotaryAutoCannon5.png" descTag="@RAC5_desc" nameTag="@RAC5"/>
<WeaponStats maxDepth="10.0" gravity="0,0,-9.8" volleydelay="0" speed="1025" lifetime="10.0" duration="-1" tons="10" ammoPerShot="1" ammoType="RotaryAC5Ammo" cooldown="0" heat="4.0" impulse="0.04" heatPenaltyID="11" minheatpenaltylevel="3" heatpenalty="6.0" heatdamage="0" damage="1.5" numFiring="1" projectileclass="bullet" type="Ballistic" slots="6" Health="15" spread="0.23" RampDownDelay="0.3" rof="7.275" JammedTime="10" JammingChance="0.037" jamRampDownTime="9.5" jamRampUpTime="6.0" rampDownTime="2.0" rampUpTime="1.0"/>

Same, but different; how many per second.
They're coded with a 0 Cooldown, so 0 times 0 is still 0

Velocity would affect that speed attribute.

[MechTech Dragoon]

Velocity wont effect your dps at all. It will however effect the time between when your bullet goes from point a to point b

[panzer1b]

velocity is very useful for any missiles and the clam uac10+uac5 combos, mostly because that particular weapon combo works effective at 600-700m with range skills, and at that distance velocity REALLY helps you out. That and clam ERPPCs cause they have a max damage raneg in excess of 800m, and you are gonna have issues connecting rounds with smaller targets much past 600m.

otherwise, if you have ballistics and have spare skill points, go for it, but its not going to be all that noticable imo.

[Daggett]

SirSmokes, on 04 December 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

Yea I just wanted to know how velocity worked on RACs or even if it dose at all. Tell me if I am missing something here. Ok so RAC are kind special as far as ballistic weapons go. There kind like MG in that they fire a constant stream but there not hit scan like MGs So if my RAC rounds are getting to my target quicker should it not die faster or am I missing something? I know it not firing any more rounds but the round take less time to get to the target so should it not yup time to kill? I ask because I took the loyalty Riflemen put targeting computer 6 and max fire skill velocity so it got 52.5 velocity to my ACs. So I put two RAC 5s just not sure if that 52.5 is doing anything useful.

As others said velocity helps with leading the target and you also may more often hit targets before they can get back into cover (faster projectile speed = less time for target to escape).
For skills the velocity nodes are worth taking if you already invest into nearby nodes like heat gen, range or the AC-specific ones.

The TC however is way too much tonnage to invest. You are way better off to just learn how to lead your target reliably and invest those whopping 7t into more weapons, DHS, ammo or whatever else helps you to increase your total damage output.
Even just getting 20+ kph from a better engine can work wonders because speed usually enables more or better firing opportunities.

BTW: As far as i know crits are not increased on RACs by TCs. It's not excluded in the tooltips like LBX but those tooltips have probably never been updated since the new weapons arrived.

Edited by Daggett, 04 December 2018 - 03:50 PM.

[LordNothing]

racs spew out enough rounds so you can do corrective aiming. you dont need high velocity rounds to do this, so i find the velocity tweaks a little lacking with that weapon. on a weapon with much slower rates of fire you usually need velocity to minimize the error in best guess deflection shooting.