8 replies to this topic

[DodgerH2O]

I am far from a new player but I have a new desire to understand the heat system in actual usable numbers, not this useless mechlab "Heat Mgmt" scale. Having recently purchased a Black Knight and found I can boat SHS viably I am beginning to wonder what the tradeoffs are especially after the recent changes.

Patch notes said (and Mechlab agrees) that SHS have a Dissipation of 0.14 and Capacity of 0.75
And that DHS Have a Dissipation of 0.22 and Capacity of 0.5

It also said some things about Heat Threshold. Which is presumably the same as Capacity but not actually stated to be? If all mechs have a base Heat Threshold of 50 due to the patch behavior, does that mean in general that mechs close to the base 10 required heatsinks benefit more from DHS due to increased dissipation while mechs with lots of heatsinks may have a reason to use SHS due to more capacity (if it indeed means Heat Threshold) before shutting down?

If there's an explanation already out there my searches don't show any recent (2018) posts, but links are welcome if I'm missing something obvious.

Edit: Also I'm assuming that Heat for weapons is identical scaling (1 point for 1 point) of Heat Threshold / Capacity. It's a big assumption to make, now that I think about it. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Edited by DodgerH2O, 14 December 2018 - 05:53 PM.

[Koniving]

Scale of heat to cooling is 1 to 1 so if something generates one heat and you cool 1 heat it's good.

Something to warn unless you are factoring heatsinks in decimals, you're factoring them per ten seconds. I.e. the double heatsinks cooling 2...is 2 in ten seconds for one DHS (or 0.2/s) Just an example.

Before you get too far mechs have a base of 30+ the value of threshold added by the heatsinks plus any percentage bonus to threshold.

Old style:
30 base plus 10 DHS(coming with a 250 engine) plus (DHS added) + percentage skill tree = threshold.
Now

Quote

The first 10 Heatsinks equipped on a 'Mech will always provide a flat 20 total points of Heat Threshold (2 per heatsink) regardless of whether they are internally mounted in the engine, or must be externally equipped in crit slots on a 'Mech.
When a heatsink must be externally mounted to meet the 10 heat sink requirement, its provided threshold is increased up to 2, overriding the stated value in the 'Mechlab.
Any heatsink equipped passed the required 10 base heat sinks act as stated in the 'Mechlab.
When a heatsink is destroyed, only the threshold value stated in the 'Mechlab is deducted from the total shutdown threshold pool. This is a buff over the previous behavior for when a heatsink from a sub 250 engine 'Mech was destroyed and ensures consistency in penalties regardless of which heatsink was destroyed in-match.

It is worth noting that the quote is referring to DHS as in the past DHS had different behavior depending on if it came with the engine or not.

Anyway new formula. Also note the below is DHS. For SHS just swap values with SHS across the board.
Threshold
30 base + first (10*2) + (#added * 0.5) + skill tree heat containment/quirks applicable = threshold. Threshold = 100% heat shutdown temp.

Cooling.
10(0.2) + #(0.22) + skill tree and quirks applicable = cooling per second. (If you used whole numbers just divide by ten.)

Note these are affected by environment settings too.
For example Terra therma reduces your threshold by -20% and cooling by -25%.
Alpine gives you +25% to both cooling and threshold.

These apply at the skills and quirks portion of the formula.

Common mistake:
Threshold use whole numbers (aside from the 0.5 thing)
Cooling use decimals if you want per second (whole numbers if you want to compare to tabletop / ten seconds)

[TheCaptainJZ]

DodgerH2O, on 14 December 2018 - 05:48 PM, said:

...
It also said some things about Heat Threshold. Which is presumably the same as Capacity but not actually stated to be? If all mechs have a base Heat Threshold of 50 due to the patch behavior, does that mean in general that mechs close to the base 10 required heatsinks benefit more from DHS due to increased dissipation while mechs with lots of heatsinks may have a reason to use SHS due to more capacity (if it indeed means Heat Threshold) before shutting down?

Edit: Also I'm assuming that Heat for weapons is identical scaling (1 point for 1 point) of Heat Threshold / Capacity...

Koniving covered the maths so I'll answer your points more concisely with that reference in place.

Threshold and Capacity is the same thing. This is just one of those times PGI uses one word and the players use another, like "Heat Scale" and "Ghost Heat."

As for you main question, yes it is possible that single heat sinks may be better for your build than double heat sinks. In most cases, no, but it is possible.

Yes, the heat threshold number works the way you'd expect. If a laser generates 5 heat, that is 5 heat of your 50 capacity (or whatever your situation is).

[Horseman]

DodgerH2O, on 14 December 2018 - 05:48 PM, said:

Edit: Also I'm assuming that Heat for weapons is identical scaling (1 point for 1 point) of Heat Threshold / Capacity. It's a big assumption to make, now that I think about it. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Mostly correct, unless you have a heat reduction quirk or points in heat reduction in your weapons tree.
Also, keep in mind that the heat gauge is described in percentage of your heat capacity

Edited by Horseman, 17 December 2018 - 09:58 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Yes, important note--your weapon's heat values are affected by quirks and things (which Kon covered). You can see the adjusted values in the mechlab if you hover over the weapon on your mech. The map will also affect it though and there isn't a tooltip for that.
Also, the % gauge is based on your mech's current threshold value so if you lose a heatsink, it will be changed to be your new threshold without any indicators other than Betty saying a heatsink was destroyed. Same with a side torso destruction.

[Koniving]

(Destruction of any limbs with heatsinks will reduce your overall max heat [capacity threshold] as well as your cooling ability. Side torsos got a specific mention because of Light Fusion Engines and Clan XL engines, which can survive losing one but not two side torsos, as such part of the engine is destroyed in the process. Among the myriad of issues this causes such as reduced speed, your max heat will take a hefty ding too with the heatsinks destroyed and I believe you lose a certain percentage of the base 10 heatsinks too.)

Can someone refresh me on what the percentage was (or if that is gone)? PGI's newest patch didn't include mention of it.

STD and IS XL engines do not suffer this issue. (IS XL engines also die when losing a side torso).

[TheCaptainJZ]

I saw in another thread cxl was 40%?

[Koniving]

TheCaptainJZ, on 17 December 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

I saw in another thread cxl was 40%?

Thank you. That's a hefty hit. With heatsinks now mattering (for the first time since before January's patch 2013 when loss of heatsink affecting cooling/threshold was turned off due to a big that apparently was never addressed til recently?) perhaps 25% would be better.

Though if that hit exclusively hits the initial 10 DHS that isn't too bad.
I personally only have like 2 IS light engines among my 291 Mechs... So aside from my Clan Mechs I am barely affected by this.

(Wonder how many noticed this? At the same time they announced the engine change that they also snuck in that they made it so that the loss of heatsink will actually affect you now... (Because they turned it back on))

Edited by Koniving, 17 December 2018 - 02:41 PM.

[DodgerH2O]

I appreciate all the information, gonna do some number crunching now that I'm more certain of the system.