16 replies to this topic

[TELEFORCE]

I like the stealth armor changes made in the most recent patch. This is closer to how I picture stealth armor working on tabletop. The tweaks to how it affects heat dissipation really make it more useable on 'mechs with hot weapons, like energy and missile systems. I'll be playing around with my Raven and Cataphract for a bit and see what evil things I can do even better now!

[El Bandito]

Making stealth armor better is not what I would recommend but as long as people are having fun...

[JediPanther]

Depending on the build and map you can run it almost indefinitely. It can be fun to use and I imagine the nanosuit voice going 'cloak engaged' when I turn it on. Stealth 3l with a lrm 10 and smls is a fun weird mech combo.

[Felbombling]

Pro tip... remove any war horns you may have mounted. Kinda counter-productive to be stealthed out with the war horn blaring away on your kill confirmations.

[crazytimes]

On cooler maps my LCT-PB can stay in stealth all match now. I only drop it to help with spotting. Doesn't mean I'm any good at it, but am enjoying the experience.

[Khobai]

all they need to do now is remove stealth from ECM and change it so stealth armor is the only way to get stealth

[Sjorpha]

Khobai, on 17 December 2018 - 04:33 AM, said:

all they need to do now is remove stealth from ECM and change it so stealth armor is the only way to get stealth

There is already a big difference though, ECM isn't actually that stealthy in the game right now. Sometimes it's even less stealthy than not having ECM because of the low signal warning, this is true for close range backstabbing for example. It's nowhere near how it used to be.

It would also be quite problematic to nerf it further since it's already just barely worth the tonnage.

Edited by Sjorpha, 17 December 2018 - 04:57 AM.

[Vellron2005]

When Stealth armor was coming out, they basically said they know it's gonna be OP, so they made it so that you don't cool off while using it..

That was the negative to offset the OP positive..

Now there's only the OP positive, no downside..

Lemme just say this - I know for a fact that most people won't use it or large mechs.. Stealth armor is meant for fast moving lights and mediums..

I use it most on the Pirate's Bane - and I never have to turn it off... on Terra Therma.

How is that not OP?

Now imagine what I could do if my Fiancee was in a LRM80 Supernova.. and I was in a full stealth Raven with Narc?

Still not OP for you?

Edited by Vellron2005, 17 December 2018 - 05:08 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Felbombling, on 16 December 2018 - 03:25 PM, said:

Pro tip... remove any war horns you may have mounted. Kinda counter-productive to be stealthed out with the war horn blaring away on your kill confirmations.

only remove the loud ones... the ones you can barely hear yourself are fine, so is the fool's horn... it only goes off when you die.

[Khobai]

Sjorpha, on 17 December 2018 - 04:56 AM, said:

There is already a big difference though, ECM isn't actually that stealthy in the game right now. Sometimes it's even less stealthy than not having ECM because of the low signal warning, this is true for close range backstabbing for example. It's nowhere near how it used to be.

It would also be quite problematic to nerf it further since it's already just barely worth the tonnage.

ECM still should not grant stealth.

Instead ECM should create fake radar contacts. Thats actually an ability its supposed to have.

[Daggett]

Vellron2005, on 17 December 2018 - 05:08 AM, said:

When Stealth armor was coming out, they basically said they know it's gonna be OP, so they made it so that you don't cool off while using it..

That was the negative to offset the OP positive..

Now there's only the OP positive, no downside..

Lemme just say this - I know for a fact that most people won't use it or large mechs.. Stealth armor is meant for fast moving lights and mediums..

I use it most on the Pirate's Bane - and I never have to turn it off... on Terra Therma.

How is that not OP?

In my experience it's not really OP because all mechs able to run stealth are either hardpoint-starved or have to downgrade range and/or dps in order to compensate the stealth's 1.5 heat per second. A pirates bane for example needs a lot of time to core an assault from behind, which probably only succeeds against novice players.
You will likely influence a match much more and backstab mechs much easier/faster with a masc FLE-17 and it's 7 energy hardpoints. Not to speak of the infamous PIR...

Stealth basically is a decision to sacrifice DPS and/or range for better protection as well as the chance to get to better firing positions. This may suit some playstyles more (it does make fun!) and can be quite annoying to the opponent, but i have yet to see an objectively OP stealth build that can do much more than just trolling unaware players. The Pirate's Bane does not cut it for me.

Vellron2005, on 17 December 2018 - 05:08 AM, said:

Now imagine what I could do if my Fiancee was in a LRM80 Supernova.. and I was in a full stealth Raven with Narc?

Still not OP for you?

I'd say that a properly piloted Narc Raven does not really need stealth, ECM already should let it get close enough to the slow-moving targets that need some lurming. Heck, when i play lurms i consistently narc my targets with much slower and bigger mechs like Mad Dogs or Sun Spiders. Should be a child's play for any fast mech, even without ECM.

BTW: In case you and your fiancee would sync-drop in solo QP then you would be what's OP. On it's own a Narc Raven is very unreliable and therefore weak in solo QP, it would be you gaming the system who make it more powerful that it is.
In group play however stealth should not make that much of a difference as stated above. With the absence of MM i expect that most of the time you either have opponents who could be fooled with ECM alone or those experienced 12-mans who are able to quickly spot and dispatch an easy-to hit stealth raven.

Edited by Daggett, 18 December 2018 - 08:04 AM.

[PocketAces]

Khobai, on 18 December 2018 - 06:07 AM, said:

ECM still should not grant stealth.

Instead ECM should create fake radar contacts. Thats actually an ability its supposed to have.

Only if you have BAP, ECM was the counter to BAP, not the other way around......... in lore.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Vellron2005, on 17 December 2018 - 05:08 AM, said:

Now imagine what I could do if my Fiancee was in a LRM80 Supernova.. and I was in a full stealth Raven with Narc?

Still not OP for you?

Not for the bums who think you and your fiancee should get to roll together through the solo queue.

[Spheroid]

Khobai, on 18 December 2018 - 06:07 AM, said:

ECM still should not grant stealth.

Instead ECM should create fake radar contacts. Thats actually an ability its supposed to have.

I have to stop you right there and explain to you why such suggestions are ill considered and impractical. What does "ghost targets" even mean? I rely on my human vision. No amount of alteration to the mini map or dorito position is going to convince me that what I am shooting is not real. All that work would be wasted for no appreciable change to aiming behavior.

Lets go even further. Lets say that it was visual fakery. Do you have any idea how bad you would tank the fps if you doubled the number of rendered objects? Look at how the game was downgraded going from eight to twelve players. If player controlled holograms were added the number of mechs rendered would potentially rise to 48!

Your suggestion is overly ambitious and not realistic given the late stage of the game's life. Paper doll delay and missile lock delay are easy to code easy to test effects.

Finally why are you complaining about ECM now? ECM is in the weakest state it has ever been in. Where were your criticisms when they were relevant?

ECM needs to provide sufficient benefits for its cost or it will just be unused junk like command console. Reconsider your position.

Edited by Spheroid, 18 December 2018 - 09:23 AM.

[Khobai]

Spheroid, on 18 December 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

What does "ghost targets" even mean? I rely on my human vision.

Simple it should create a holographic projection thats otherwise indistinguishable from a regular mech.

Spheroid, on 18 December 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

Lets go even further. Lets say that it was visual fakery. Do you have any idea how bad you would tank the fps if you doubled the number of rendered objects?

Why would it double the number of rendered objects? That implies every mech would be using ECM and that every mech with ECM would also be using ECM ghost mode. Thats highly unlikely.

Besides ive always said the game should go back to 8v8 anyway.

Spheroid, on 18 December 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

Your suggestion is overly ambitious and not realistic given the late stage of the game's life. Paper doll delay and missile lock delay are easy to code easy to test effects.

Perhaps. But its what ECM should actually do because its what it does in battletech. Whereas ECM does not grant stealth at all in battletech.

Spheroid, on 18 December 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

Finally why are you complaining about ECM now? ECM is in the weakest state it has ever been in. Where were your criticisms when they were relevant?

my criticism of ECM is nothing new. its been ongoing for years. I have always been against ECM granting stealth.

also ECM is not currently at the weakest state its ever been in because they just buffed ECM stealth radius not too long ago. ECM was weaker before that buff.

Edited by Khobai, 18 December 2018 - 12:57 PM.

[Jun Watarase]

Stealth armor is broken now. The ECM field it generates cannot be negated via UAVs, TAG or BAP. There is no longer any need to bring multiple ECM mechs for an overlapping ECM bubble...one stealth armor mech is all you need. It even jams ALL UAVs in the area....I think thats the only way to jam UAVs as well.

[Vellron2005]

Mister Glitchdragon, on 18 December 2018 - 08:06 AM, said:

Not for the bums who think you and your fiancee should get to roll together through the solo queue.

Well solo que is difficult to sink-drop into, so I guess we can't roll together there..

Luckily, the game is not played only in Solo Que Quick Play..

Other things matter too.. and in the mode where Stealth Armor can have the biggest impact - Invasion - yeah, it's OP A.F. right now..