40 replies to this topic

[Jun Watarase]

Okay, a normal ECM bubble can be disabled easily via UAV, BAP, counter ECM or tag (and narc, but almost nobody uses narc anyway). And the occasional PPC hit i guess.

But stealth armor seems to turn the mech's ECM into a godlike ECM bubble that is immune to all of the above.

I have seen multiple UAVs getting shut down just because a single stealth armor mech wandered into their range. This doesnt happen with normal ECM because the UAV's counter-ecm effect > normal ECM.

BAP doesnt protect you. I have waved the TAG laser at a stealth armor infront of me and it does absolutely nothing.

I cant tell if this is intended or not. The entire point of stealth armor was that it makes the mech itself harder to detect...you can eyeball it obviously, but it doesnt show on sensors. But it also has the side effect of making the ECM bubble...and the key part here, the BUBBLE...being immune to all counter-ECM.

It also means that all counter-ECM is instantly worthless if an ECM mech decides to use stealth armor instead. While numerous methods exist to negate ECM for streaks, atms or LRMs...none exist for stealth armor ECM other than "dont bother bringing those weapons at all, just boat lasers like everyone else".

So instead of teams bringing multiple ECM mechs to have an overlapping bubble, they can just bring one stealth armor ECM mech since the only way to "negate" the bubble is to destroy the stealth armor mech. Or crit the ECM suite (although im not sure if that functionality is in MWO).

[N0ni]

Did you try hitting the stealth armor mech with a PPC? That counters it 100% of the time. Not immune.

[Spheroid]

@NOni: That fact is not in dispute. He is calling attention to the fact that the cloak field which is slightly over 100m in radius provides ECM cloaking superior to that of standard ECM(or even old magic Jesus box ECM).

I imagine this was an oversight caused by the fact that ECM is a single state coding solution. A standard ECM Hellbringer confers its attributes with others via a bubble. I suspect as coded you can't double stack a stealth bubble inside a standard bubble(from a single mech). It maybe similar to how BAP and ECM can't operate at the same time in a single mech. That CECM code was done long, long ago and the involved personelle have most likely left the company. The obvious solution is to make the cloak skin tight with a radius of perhaps ten meters or less.

PGI is about to shut down for the better part of month so don't look for any big patches.

Edited by Spheroid, 18 December 2018 - 01:46 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

N0ni, on 18 December 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

Did you try hitting the stealth armor mech with a PPC? That counters it 100% of the time. Not immune.

That and Narc.

Spheroid, on 18 December 2018 - 01:33 PM, said:

PGI is about to shut down for the better part of month so don't look for any big patches.

about to you say.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Psst, try a couple flamers - its hilarious.

[Jun Watarase]

People have started abusing this in FP now. BAP + TAG couldnt negate the ECM on a stealth armor mech.

[Jun Watarase]

Xeno Phalcon, on 18 December 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

Psst, try a couple flamers - its hilarious.

Interesting idea...unfortunately not very practical as the ECM bubble is bigger than the range of flamers by far...and the stealth armor mech is usually small, fast, and surrounded by the whole enemy team....

[Dee Eight]

I pointed this out to tech support and had email back & forth with Bobby on it... oh.... August 30th of this year. Clearly fixing the bug isn't a priority. Hell if anything extending the ECM bubble from 90 to 120 in the same month's August 21st patch is likely what made the effect worse and more noticed, or where the bug was introduced because as pointed out above, the folks who originally coded ECM aren't there anymore.

I knew it was going to get exploited once more found out about it. A stealth mech with AMS can really shield a whole squad of backfield hiding LRM boats firing indirectly. Or if its got the speed to stay with a light rush, keep them from being hit by streaks. This new stealth/ecm fun also arrived the same month they eliminated the artemis benefits, and shrunk the missile lock target size area.

Edited by Dee Eight, 18 December 2018 - 06:28 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Jun Watarase, on 18 December 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

People have started abusing this in FP now. BAP + TAG couldnt negate the ECM on a stealth armor mech.

They aren't supposed to, IIRC. You need a NARC or a PPC hit to knock it out of Stealth. Or... bypass the problem altogether and use weapons that don't require locks.

[GeminiWolf]

Anything Anti-Lurmer makes my heart warm

[Shadowomega1]

N0ni, on 18 December 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

Did you try hitting the stealth armor mech with a PPC? That counters it 100% of the time. Not immune.

Actually starting to wonder if it is working as I nailed a stealth armor commando dead on with dual cERPPCs got the hit marker and it didn't knock him out of stealth, just 10 or so minutes ago. Not once but twice.

Spheroid, on 18 December 2018 - 01:33 PM, said:

@NOni: That fact is not in dispute. He is calling attention to the fact that the cloak field which is slightly over 100m in radius provides ECM cloaking superior to that of standard ECM(or even old magic Jesus box ECM).

I imagine this was an oversight caused by the fact that ECM is a single state coding solution. A standard ECM Hellbringer confers its attributes with others via a bubble. I suspect as coded you can't double stack a stealth bubble inside a standard bubble(from a single mech). It maybe similar to how BAP and ECM can't operate at the same time in a single mech. That CECM code was done long, long ago and the involved personelle have most likely left the company. The obvious solution is to make the cloak skin tight with a radius of perhaps ten meters or less.

PGI is about to shut down for the better part of month so don't look for any big patches.

So BAP and ECM doesn't work together at all? Then why does my ECM & BAP mech constantly get ECM counter points while my ECM is set to disrupt?

Dee Eight, on 18 December 2018 - 06:26 PM, said:

I pointed this out to tech support and had email back & forth with Bobby on it... oh.... August 30th of this year. Clearly fixing the bug isn't a priority. Hell if anything extending the ECM bubble from 90 to 120 in the same month's August 21st patch is likely what made the effect worse and more noticed, or where the bug was introduced because as pointed out above, the folks who originally coded ECM aren't there anymore.

I knew it was going to get exploited once more found out about it. A stealth mech with AMS can really shield a whole squad of backfield hiding LRM boats firing indirectly. Or if its got the speed to stay with a light rush, keep them from being hit by streaks. This new stealth/ecm fun also arrived the same month they eliminated the artemis benefits, and shrunk the missile lock target size area.

Sadly when they buffed ECM back to 120 they didn't buff Active Probes back to their original range value as well.

Edited by Shadowomega1, 18 December 2018 - 09:09 PM.

[OmniFail]

I have seen this horrible game breaking bug for like two months now. I am sure that it will be around for two more because it really only affects lock on weapons.

[Dee Eight]

Shadowomega1, on 18 December 2018 - 09:09 PM, said:

Actually starting to wonder if it is working as I nailed a stealth armor commando dead on with dual cERPPCs got the hit marker and it didn't knock him out of stealth, just 10 or so minutes ago. Not once but twice.




So BAP and ECM doesn't work together at all? Then why does my ECM & BAP mech constantly get ECM counter points while my ECM is set to disrupt?

Most likely something else PGI screwed up the coding of.

[Gen Lee]

Dee Eight, on 19 December 2018 - 08:27 PM, said:

Most likely something else PGI screwed up the coding of.

Wouldn't be surprised. How long did it take for them to acknowledge that there was an issue with Artemis and ATMs or Streaks? Long enough to come up with other ways to screw up missiles, locks, tracking, cones, etc.

[Khobai]

Shadowomega1, on 18 December 2018 - 09:09 PM, said:

So BAP and ECM doesn't work together at all?

Nope they dont work together. And they dont do what theyre supposed to either.

BAP is not supposed to counter ECM. BAP is supposed to give you 360 degree sensors that can see through terrain and obstructions. BAP is also supposed to let you use upto two remote sensor probes.

Guardian ECM is not supposed to grant stealth or prevent missile locks (and even Angel ECM doesnt prevent streaks from firing it lets them dumbfire still). ECM is supposed to cut mechs off from sharing sensor info with their team (an ability it used to have which was removed for no good reason) and have the ability to create ghost signatures among other things.

Would be nice if PGI actually made things do what theyre supposed to. But I guess thats too much to ask...

Edited by Khobai, 19 December 2018 - 11:41 PM.

[Black Ivan]

With most of the Dev Team working on MW5 asking for many things is regretably out of scope now

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Khobai, on 19 December 2018 - 11:30 PM, said:

ECM is supposed to cut mechs off from sharing sensor info with their team (an ability it used to have which was removed for no good reason)

That was removed? I'm under the impression it still works like that.

[Dee Eight]

Gen Lee, on 19 December 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

Wouldn't be surprised. How long did it take for them to acknowledge that there was an issue with Artemis and ATMs or Streaks? Long enough to come up with other ways to screw up missiles, locks, tracking, cones, etc.

Five years... give or take...

[Mole]

Why are we complaining about Stealth armor? The 'mech using it had to pay a heavy price to put that on their 'mech which means they cannot have ferro armor, which is honestly a must for most light 'mech builds, and it's not always on. They must choose to turn it on and in so doing their heat does not dissipate until it is turned off. I have played around with stealth armor before and it is quite possible to overheat yourself without ever firing a shot just by the heat being generated by running around. Frankly, I find the cost of stealth armor not worth the benefits because anyone with a pair of mk1 Eyeballs can and will shoot me even if I'm not showing up on their sensors.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

you're not up to date, Mole, as of the last patch, stealth armour does not shut down dissipation anymore, but instead generates 1.5 heat/s.