40 replies to this topic

[Spheroid]

@Mole: You are really out of the loop. Stealth is great and ferro is junk especially on 20 ton mechs. A meager 12% weight savings of an already small value for fourteen slots is a terrible deal. No piece of I.S. equipment is less than half a ton so none of the that meager weight savings can do anything. With rational armor application the legs and torso already are at their optimal levels. The ferro doesn't change the build.

A 190XL PB should always take stealth over ferro.

190XL with max ferro is 19.4 tons with two slots available for 2B and 1 AMS. Effect = no upgrade available
190XL with max light ferro is 19.6 tons with nine slots available. Effect = insufficient free mass for additionally equipment.

The PB doesn't in anyway need another DHS and twin machine guns are a joke, certainly not worth completely stripping the arms and a large portion of the head.

Edited by Spheroid, 20 December 2018 - 10:09 AM.

[Chris Lowrey]

So lots of assumptions being thrown around here so poking in to provide some clarity.

First off to address the OP. Yes we have looked into this claim, and we have not been able to replicate the behavior posted in the original post. From our testing, Stealth Armor does not provide it's stealth benefit to team mates. But with a sever caveat that as currently implemented, Stealth Armor and ECM are treated as completely separate pieces of equipment with the only interaction between them being that you need a functional ECM system in order to utilize Stealth armor.

This means that currently, if you activate Stealth Armor, your ECM is still functioning as it normally does, since it is a pre-requisite to both enable and continually use the Stealth Armor. So you are still broadcasting a standard ECM bubble that will reduce detection ranges from everyone within the bubble with the identical functionality as a standard ECM system. The stealth armor benefits in these cases would only affect the 'Mech that is actively using Stealth Armor, while team mates within the ECM bubble will gain the standard ECM effects.

In the case of BAP or the UAV, if you where to get them within the effective range of the 'Mechs, those 'Mechs under the ECM bubble but not equipped with stealth armor should be countered and targetable, but the 'Mech with active Stealth armor engaged should not since one of the perks of Stealth armor is immunity from various "auto detection" systems. In that specific case, you would need a PPC or NARC hit to disable the ECM and knock the 'Mech out of Stealth, or TAG him to make him targetable despite the active stealth armor.

This behavior has been tested internally and we are currently not seeing any deviation from what has been described above. We won't dismiss that it may be a possibility if something is not working as intended but so far we have not been able to replicate that specific behavior internally. So feel free to forward any examples along and we will look into them, but please be mindful that it is currently designed to function as described above.

Regarding this:

Khobai, on 19 December 2018 - 11:30 PM, said:

ECM is supposed to cut mechs off from sharing sensor info with their team (an ability it used to have which was removed for no good reason)

It does. This functionality was never removed. When in a Low signal state, your detection range is significantly reduced, and you do not share any targeting info with any other 'Mech within your network. The only thing they would see is that their team mate would have a "low signal" icon next to their hud info.

Additionally, Active Stealth armor puts the Stealth Armor user into a perpetual self inflicted low-signal state as long as the armor is active, which means that their own sensors are greatly diminished, and they can no longer relay targeting info to team mates.

[Spheroid]

@Chris: Log on right now. I can demonstrate the stealth bubble effect quite easily in private lobby. Only three mechs are required. A stealth mech, a non-stealth mech and an enemy attempting to lock the non-stealth mech.

The wide area stealth field exceeds the abilities of standard ECM. Bring whatever equipment you deem appropriate for the locking mech including TAG and or BAP. Somebody will be eating humble pie today.

Edited by Spheroid, 20 December 2018 - 11:28 AM.

[Shadowomega1]

Chris Lowrey, on 20 December 2018 - 10:37 AM, said:

So lots of assumptions being thrown around here so poking in to provide some clarity.

First off to address the OP. Yes we have looked into this claim, and we have not been able to replicate the behavior posted in the original post. From our testing, Stealth Armor does not provide it's stealth benefit to team mates. But with a sever caveat that as currently implemented, Stealth Armor and ECM are treated as completely separate pieces of equipment with the only interaction between them being that you need a functional ECM system in order to utilize Stealth armor.

This means that currently, if you activate Stealth Armor, your ECM is still functioning as it normally does, since it is a pre-requisite to both enable and continually use the Stealth Armor. So you are still broadcasting a standard ECM bubble that will reduce detection ranges from everyone within the bubble with the identical functionality as a standard ECM system. The stealth armor benefits in these cases would only affect the 'Mech that is actively using Stealth Armor, while team mates within the ECM bubble will gain the standard ECM effects.

In the case of BAP or the UAV, if you where to get them within the effective range of the 'Mechs, those 'Mechs under the ECM bubble but not equipped with stealth armor should be countered and targetable, but the 'Mech with active Stealth armor engaged should not since one of the perks of Stealth armor is immunity from various "auto detection" systems. In that specific case, you would need a PPC or NARC hit to disable the ECM and knock the 'Mech out of Stealth, or TAG him to make him targetable despite the active stealth armor.

This behavior has been tested internally and we are currently not seeing any deviation from what has been described above. We won't dismiss that it may be a possibility if something is not working as intended but so far we have not been able to replicate that specific behavior internally. So feel free to forward any examples along and we will look into them, but please be mindful that it is currently designed to function as described above.

Regarding this:


It does. This functionality was never removed. When in a Low signal state, your detection range is significantly reduced, and you do not share any targeting info with any other 'Mech within your network. The only thing they would see is that their team mate would have a "low signal" icon next to their hud info.

Additionally, Active Stealth armor puts the Stealth Armor user into a perpetual self inflicted low-signal state as long as the armor is active, which means that their own sensors are greatly diminished, and they can no longer relay targeting info to team mates.

Might want to also double check the PPC knocking people out of stealth, as of yesterday I had a match with an enemy Stealth armor commando and I nailed him twice with cERPPCs and he didn't get knocked out of ecm or stealth, got hit markers on both shots. (wish I got the match ID number).

[Chris Lowrey]

Shadowomega1, on 20 December 2018 - 11:27 AM, said:

Might want to also double check the PPC knocking people out of stealth, as of yesterday I had a match with an enemy Stealth armor commando and I nailed him twice with cERPPCs and he didn't get knocked out of ecm or stealth, got hit markers on both shots. (wish I got the match ID number).

Just tested and seems to be working fine, but this might be a case where I would need to see specifics of the match. As you may have knocked out the Stealth / ECM of the 'Mech, but he was also under the bubble of another friendly ECM and was there for receiving benefits from that.

If he was bending and weaving behind cover, radar dep might also play a role in it as well depending on the situation. Would have to see a more direct example.

Spheroid, on 20 December 2018 - 11:14 AM, said:

@Chris: Log on right now. I can demonstrate the stealth bubble effect quite easily in private lobby.

I'll hang out in client, but I'm going to be heading off to lunch at noon PST, so you've got either a half an hour window from when this post goes up, or it will have to wait till I get back from lunch. PM me on the forum or in-client.

[Spheroid]

Lobby is up. Invite sent. I need a third player for the experiment. Shadowomega1 are you logged on?

Edited by Spheroid, 20 December 2018 - 11:47 AM.

[Spheroid]

Chris and I are in lobby. We need a third player. Anybody is welcome. We need you now though.

[Shadowomega1]

Chris Lowrey, on 20 December 2018 - 11:39 AM, said:

Just tested and seems to be working fine, but this might be a case where I would need to see specifics of the match. As you may have knocked out the Stealth / ECM of the 'Mech, but he was also under the bubble of another friendly ECM and was there for receiving benefits from that.

If he was bending and weaving behind cover, radar dep might also play a role in it as well depending on the situation. Would have to see a more direct example.



I'll hang out in client, but I'm going to be heading off to lunch at noon PST, so you've got either a half an hour window from when this post goes up, or it will have to wait till I get back from lunch. PM me on the forum or in-client.

He was the last mech alive, and was inside of 250m of me on the second shot which also I know hit for sure as his right torso started smoking. First shot was a blind shot at the control point on Caustic valley, which caused him to run into direct view of my mech.

If you can reverse look up the match data, I was in my Blood Asp Rancor on Caustic valley, and I think it was my only win on it late last night.

[Spheroid]

Shadow can you log on now or are you away from your computer? I sent you a friend request.

[Shadowomega1]

I need a few minutes as I am actually waiting on a few things to get done.

[Spheroid]

The test is over.

The covered mechs were able to be locked. This was not the behavior I observed one day prior to Tuesday's patch. Apparently changes other than heat were made to stealth in that patch.

The involved mechs in this just concluded test were a stealth Stalker-3Fb no ECM nodes and a stealth Locust full ECM nodes against Chris's streak Artic Wolf. In the test he was able to lock both a non-ECM Javelin and an Archer Tempest with ECM while both were in close proximity to my stealth mechs.

Edited by Spheroid, 20 December 2018 - 12:49 PM.

[Chris Lowrey]

So as indicated by Spheroid, we tested this and in our testing, it works as described in my first post in this thread.

Now I want to make it clear that this does not mean we are dismissing the concerns brought in by the original poster or others who have claimed to observe this behavior in this thread. But as I have said, we will need examples of it not behaving appropriately forwarded to us so we can observe and attempt to create a reproduction method in which we might encounter potentially bugged behavior.

If we do observe and can reproduce the behavior outlined by the original poster, then we will look into rectifying it, as that is not the intended behavior for the equipment.

[Astrocanis]

Mole, on 20 December 2018 - 09:26 AM, said:

Why are we complaining about Stealth armor? The 'mech using it had to pay a heavy price to put that on their 'mech which means they cannot have ferro armor, which is honestly a must for most light 'mech builds, and it's not always on. They must choose to turn it on and in so doing their heat does not dissipate until it is turned off. I have played around with stealth armor before and it is quite possible to overheat yourself without ever firing a shot just by the heat being generated by running around. Frankly, I find the cost of stealth armor not worth the benefits because anyone with a pair of mk1 Eyeballs can and will shoot me even if I'm not showing up on their sensors.

1. They just changed it again so you are unlikely to overheat just by running it.
2. The OP isn't about stealth armor giving electronic invisibility to the mech. It's about it giving complete invisibility to any friendly within it's 240M diameter. Not ECM cover. Total stealth. That's a bug.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Spheroid, on 20 December 2018 - 11:14 AM, said:

Somebody will be eating humble pie today.

I imagine spheroid going OM NOM NOM, for some reason though I also imagine him as the TF2 heavy.

(IIRC So far my stealth wolfhound has not had this bug when iv been baby sitting people today from Lurmado 2019.)

[LordNothing]

i ran into a ghillie yesterday. had bap and a tag on it at point blank range and still couldnt get a lock. i kind of think tag should be one of those things that can break stealth. tag in general is so anemic that its not really worth taking.

Edited by LordNothing, 20 December 2018 - 01:32 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I have been out of the game for a while so there might have been changes but correct me if I am wrong here. Isn't Stealth armor basically physical armor that hides any emissions from the mech using it at the expense of not being able to vent waste heat? If so hitting it with a PPC wouldn't/should do anything special. ECM is Electronic Counter Measures which means instead of a physical mechanism concealing the mech, you're using various electronic signals and such to mask or disrupt the enemy sensors. This is also why a PPC disrupts the ECM.

So if nothing changed, using stealth armor should pretty much conceal a mech from any sort of detection by anything except for the Mk I Eyeball and if that is the case, what is being described it is working as intended.

[Angel of Annihilation]

LordNothing, on 20 December 2018 - 01:01 PM, said:

i ran into a ghillie yesterday. had bap and a tag on it at point blank range and still couldnt get a lock. i kind of think tag should be one of those things that can break stealth.

Actually what should happen with TAG is that your missiles hit whatever surface your TAG Laser happens to be targetting. It should not, however, allow you to technically "Lock" a target. Basically your missiles are homing in on the laser designator not the actual target, hence why is shouldn't be a "lock".

[LordNothing]

Viktor Drake, on 20 December 2018 - 01:16 PM, said:

Actually what should happen with TAG is that your missiles hit whatever surface your TAG Laser happens to be targetting. It should not, however, allow you to technically "Lock" a target. Basically your missiles are homing in on the laser designator not the actual target, hence why is shouldn't be a "lock".

this should totally be a thing. and buff narc as well, like it should make lock nearly instantaneous, even make it so that missile home in on the location where the beacon sticks.

Edited by LordNothing, 20 December 2018 - 03:29 PM.

[Grus]

Remember, its not a bug, its a feature...

[Variant1]

No it was most likely your imagination or a bug. ECM is now trash and stealth armor is very situational in its uses compared to good old ecm.