24 replies to this topic

[eminus]

just now I hop on my lurmer supernova....previously it was heat manageable

then now I suddenly shut down and the heat dissipation is abysmal.

and am I seeing it correctly? I only got 3HS out of 10?

Edited by eminus, 19 December 2018 - 06:18 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

I think they lowered heat-cap for higher heat-dissipation.

Also losing side-torso lowers max-heat. So if it's 28/30 heat, then you lose a side-torso, the heat becomes something like 28/24 and would overheat and shut down your mech.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 December 2018 - 06:19 AM.

[El Bandito]

The6thMessenger, on 19 December 2018 - 06:19 AM, said:

I think they lowered heat-cap for higher heat-dissipation.

Also losing side-torso lowers max-heat. So if it's 28/30 heat, then you lose a side-torso, the heat becomes something like 28/24 and would overheat and shut down your mech.

He is using Std engine.

He really should equip FF armor since he got the slots, and buff up his cockpit.

[eminus]

The6thMessenger, on 19 December 2018 - 06:19 AM, said:

I think they lowered heat-cap for higher heat-dissipation.

Also losing side-torso lowers max-heat. So if it's 28/30 heat, then you lose a side-torso, the heat becomes something like 28/24 and would overheat and shut down your mech.

I was perfectly healthy I mean around 85% to 90% that is still left on me and the damage was spread..suddenly I dont know but my heat wont dissipate

[eminus]

or can someone help post a link if there is a youtuber who tried to explain this new heat mechanic?

[The Image]

A LRM boat ASSAULT 'mech?

Really?

Pretty sure your heat penalty is because of that alone...

[kapusta11]

You might want to remove that laser ams of yours.

[eminus]

kapusta11, on 19 December 2018 - 06:38 AM, said:

You might want to remove that laser ams of yours.

it was turned off right from the start of the game since it was on tourmaline desert


I forgot to mention my ping was around 500+ could that be the case? but then my heat dissipation was like 1% per second

Edited by eminus, 19 December 2018 - 06:45 AM.

[Maddermax]

If you'd taken no damage, two options - heat bug (where heat dissipation doesn't occur correctly, has been a rare but known issue for a while), or you fired your weapons too quickly or alpha'd and got ghost heat, which would have severely heat spiked your mech.

You should be able to fire quite a few times before heat becomes an issue, due to the faster dissipation that's possible now. The lower heat cap doesn't make a huge difference, as long as you're chain firing and avoiding ghost heat.


edit:
Also, as you asked, the 3/(10) heat sink thing means you have 3 external heat sinks (in this case shown in the slots on the engine), and 10 internal engine heat sinks (which are not shown separately).

Edited by Maddermax, 19 December 2018 - 06:48 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Not much to explain, base heat cap is 50 now, extra double heat sinks (beyond the base 10 your mech requires by the construction rules) add 0.5 capacity each and ALL double heat sinks now dissipate 0.22 per second regardless of location on the mech. Also artemis conveys no bonuses other than missile spread and then only with line of sight to the target. So unless you're playing that supernova out in the open firing direct, you might as well remove the artemis and add more heat sinks. I run 16 DHS on my SNV-A.

Edited by Dee Eight, 20 December 2018 - 08:03 AM.

[Daggett]

eminus, on 19 December 2018 - 06:17 AM, said:

just now I hop on my lurmer supernova....previously it was heat manageable
then now I suddenly shut down and the heat dissipation is abysmal.
and am I seeing it correctly? I only got 3HS out of 10?

The display is correct, the first number simply shows your additional external heatsinks, the other your internal engine ones. So just add both numbers together, which is 13 in your case.

Heat dissipation was significantly improved in october patch, so if you think that dissipation is worse now than i can only think of those two possibilities:
- You encountered the rare but very real heat bug as Maddermax described
- Your laser AMS did more work than usual, resulting in more heat generation

Basically 4x LRM20 are very heat-efficient, so unequip the Laser AMS and try a few more matches. If heat dissipation is still bad then the most likely cause is that your memory fools you.
As stated above under normal conditions dissipation is way better than before october patch, but keep in mind that october patch also drastically reduced heat cap. So you can't simply compare how the heat scale behaved now and then. On your build 100% heat now relates to 36.5 instead of 54.5 like before. So a change of 1% is much different than before, which may cause your memory to fail.

Sudden shutdowns can be caused by the heat bug too but this should only occur very rarely. Other sources for your build are:
- alpha-striking and triggering ghost heat with all four launchers (check your weapon-groups)
- Laser AMS

TLDR: Whatever we say, the most important thing to do now is to play more matches to see if your heat issues were an exception or if they occur in every match.

Dee Eight, on 19 December 2018 - 06:57 AM, said:

Not much to explain, base heat cap is 50 now

Thats not correct, base heat cap was 50 before and now is 35 including the 10 DHS of the engine.

Edited by Daggett, 19 December 2018 - 07:51 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Daggett, on 19 December 2018 - 07:07 AM, said:

Thats not correct, base heat cap was 50 before and now is 35 including the 10 DHS of the engine.

Yes it IS correct...its not my fault you cannot comprehend the patch notes...
Heat System Overhaul

Based on the results of the recent PTS series and player feedback, this month we are releasing an overhaul of the current heat system. This overhaul will have 3 major impacts over the current heat system:

• Across the board increases to Heat Dissipation
  
• Reductions to Shutdown Threshold Scaling
  
• Unifying the behavior of all heatsinks

The net result of these changes will see higher heat dissipation rates across the board. However, for builds that exceed the initial 10 heat sinks, there will be a constriction of the total shutdown threshold. While resulting in higher overall DPS, heat spikes run a greater risk of shutting you down if they are not properly managed.

General:

• The first 10 Heatsinks equipped on a 'Mech will always provide a flat 20 total points of Heat Threshold (2 per heatsink) regardless of whether they are internally mounted in the engine, or must be externally equipped in crit slots on a 'Mech.
  
• When a heatsink must be externally mounted to meet the 10 heat sink requirement, its provided threshold is increased up to 2, overriding the stated value in the 'Mechlab.
  
• Any heatsink equipped passed the required 10 base heat sinks act as stated in the 'Mechlab.
  
• When a heatsink is destroyed, only the threshold value stated in the 'Mechlab is deducted from the total shutdown threshold pool. This is a buff over the previous behavior for when a heatsink from a sub 250 engine 'Mech was destroyed and ensures consistency in penalties regardless of which heatsink was destroyed in-match.

Heatsinks:

• Dissipation rate increased to 0.14 (from 0.13)
  
• Heat capacity reduced to 0.75 (from 1.3)

Double Heatsinks (Both Inner Sphere and Clan)

• Dissipation rate increased to 0.22 (from 0.15)
  
• No more division between engine and externally based heat sinks. All dissipation rates are now at a consistent 0.22 per-heat sink.
  
• Heat Capacity reduced to 0.5 (from 1.5)

Known Issues
Due to how these heat system changes alter fundamental interactions within the game, a number of known issues have been identified. We will be looking to address these issues in upcoming patches:

• Heat Containment Skill Tree Skills

[indent]
Through our investigations into these heat system changes, we have uncovered that there is a bug in the way that heat containment skills are distributing their benefits. As they currently operate, they are unevenly distributing their benefits towards external heat sinks over internal heat sinks. With us constricting external heatsink heat capacity values, these skill tree nodes will feel less impactful in the incoming heat system overhaul compared to what they are now, or through the PTS series. Although they will still provide some benefit over not taking them at all.
We will be looking to address this behavior and ensure that it's benefits will be more evenly distributed towards all 'Mechs in a future patch.
[/indent]

• Stealth Armor

[indent]
Because stealth armor completely negates dissipation and relies on a 'Mechs total threshold in order to effectively operate, the changes being pushed for heatsinks drastically affects the current mechanics regarding stealth armor. We will be targeting changes to the stealth armor in a future patch to ensure that it is better tuned to account for the new heat system overhaul.[/indent]

• Flamers

[indent]
Changes to shutdown thresholds as well as increases to heat dissipation will end up putting flamers, a weapon specifically tuned to the current heat system settings, directly under the microscope, and may need further changes to account for the new heat system. Unlike the previous two entries, we will not be targeting changes for the flamer immediately, but instead closely observe both it's post launch performance, as well as player feedback regarding it's role moving forward. We will be closely monitoring player feedback on this matter and won't rule out potential changes in the future if we feel they are needed.[/indent]

Further Design Notes: Observers of the previous PTS Roadmap and PTS testers will note that we make no mention of any base heat changes. We have decided to keep the base 30 heat and instead change the base 10 heatsink behavior to provide a flat 20 value regardless of source. This will still produce the total base 50 heat threshold that was observed during testing regardless of how heatsinks are assigned, but keeps a value tied to heatsinks for the purpose of threshold reductions through Heatsink destruction, and side torso destruction penalties for 'Mechs with either Inner Sphere light engines, or Clan XL engine's in their 'Mech. Due to the testing nature of PTS, these destruction penalties where not present in the PTS series, but will be present in the final release.

[Daggett]

Dee Eight, on 19 December 2018 - 07:18 AM, said:

Yes it IS correct...its not my fault you cannot comprehend the patch notes...

Okay i see. The problem is they hid the missing link under "further design notes" instead of clearly stating above that the 20 flat dissipation is added to another flat 30 dissipation. If you just read the important stuff nothing makes sense.

I guess also part of my wrong assumption is that smurfy is displaying wrong numbers, that fooled me hard. MechDB however is correct. If MechDB would only feature smurfys very useful weaponlab too...

Edited by Daggett, 19 December 2018 - 07:46 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

The6thMessenger, on 19 December 2018 - 06:19 AM, said:

I think they lowered heat-cap for higher heat-dissipation.

Also losing side-torso lowers max-heat. So if it's 28/30 heat, then you lose a side-torso, the heat becomes something like 28/24 and would overheat and shut down your mech.

Oh, my bad.

[Dee Eight]

Losing the side torso if you have a clan XL or an IS LFE engine that is. Although it would not surprise me if PGI screwed the code in such a way as to handicap standard engines also...

[FRAGTAST1C]

Maddermax, on 19 December 2018 - 06:44 AM, said:

If you'd taken no damage, two options - heat bug (where heat dissipation doesn't occur correctly, has been a rare but known issue for a while), or you fired your weapons too quickly or alpha'd and got ghost heat, which would have severely heat spiked your mech.

Could you explain this Heat Bug? I think I was having that but I thought it was my Laser AMS.

I mean, sure, I had no heat issues even with the Laser AMS but the heat dissipation suddenly didn't make sense. I was playing on Frozen City. My heat dissipation was around 1% every 2 seconds. Then, the same thing happened 2 matches later on the Mining Collective and Rubellite Oasis. Normally, my loadout of AC20, 2 MRM 30s and Laser AMS with full cool run and heat gen nodes doesn't pose a problem unless I fire all my weapons more than 5 times in a row or something like that. But suddenly, my mech just didn't cool down at all and was dissipating heat at the rate of 1% every 2 seconds. I thought it was my Laser AMS.

[justcallme A S H]

eminus, on 19 December 2018 - 06:17 AM, said:

just now I hop on my lurmer supernova....previously it was heat manageable

then now I suddenly shut down and the heat dissipation is abysmal.

and am I seeing it correctly? I only got 3HS out of 10?

The build is the issue. Not the heat system... There is no way that build was heat manageable prior to the heat changes as the heat changes saw BUFFS to cooling. Not the other way around.

This is how you build a LRM SNV-A in the current format of the game. Note just how many more DHS it has over your build...

SNV-A

^ that quite literally showing why LRM DPS is so broken after the heat / ammo buffs etc this year.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 20 December 2018 - 02:13 PM.

[Dee Eight]

And outside of faction boreal defence, where you are guaranteed to have long shooting lanes and can put direct fire folks ahead of you... I'd carry 3 tons less ammo to have some close in lasers.

[Koniving]

Also:
Did anyone else notice that with the heat change, they slipped in another little number?
Losing heatsinks "NOW" lowers your heat dissipation and threshold.

Note....
"Now."
Which this hasn't had an affect on cooling power or max heat since a change in 2013.
>.>
<.<
Everyone's gonna feel it now.

Edited by Koniving, 20 December 2018 - 09:30 PM.

[Appogee]

On principle, I don't think we should be helping anyone piloting LRM Supernovas

Koniving, on 20 December 2018 - 09:28 PM, said:

Also:
Did anyone else notice that with the heat change, they slipped in another little number?
Losing heatsinks "NOW" lowers your heat dissipation and threshold.

Yep, that is actually the most significant part of the change. I'm seeing highly experienced players now cooking themselves off because someone shot out a side torso while they were riding their heat cap.

But I gotta say: the new mechanic makes perfect sense from a 'sim' perspective.