30 replies to this topic

[Yiryi-Sa]

Darakor Stormwind, on 30 December 2018 - 10:26 PM, said:

They are also extremely powerful against SRM and SSRM.

SRMs, no. Their velocity and short optimal range negate AMS. Streaks, on the other hand, have a much slower velocity time. AMS is also really powerful against NARCs.

[Viagra Rage]

Darakor Stormwind, on 30 December 2018 - 10:26 PM, said:

If you say so. Because your Jarl's List stats sure do not show it. IIRC, 7 missiles shot down should yield one match score. So your 1600 missiles shot down per match should bring you ca. 225 MS. From AMS alone. Which your stats reflect in no way. So I can only conclude you do not actually play with AMS all that often. Or that it is not all that useful all that often.

Moving on to my next point...



They are also extremely powerful against SRM and SSRM. However, you always have AMS on that Mech and you will have it on you, whether you encounter missile boats or not. You can end up playing on Polar and getting your AMS' worth. But you may as well end up on Solaris City and have wasted 3 tons. ***EDIT: That ammo of yours will run out pretty quickly under heavy lurming. While lurm boats tend to bring 6-10 tons worth of ammo.*** You also - ideally - need to be between the enemy and your team to make the most of the firing rate. This is pretty suicidal on a number of maps. Your team is also rarely deathballs tighly enough to cover enough of them. You will ever only be able to protect parts of your team.

And I would like to re-iterate. I am not an "anti-AMS party". I do bring AMS on a number of my Mechs. But since I am often the only one, the effects are not nearly as strong as people advocate on this thread. I spent the time and did research on AMS. Also:

Weapon Matches Fired Hit Accuracy Time Equip. Damage

AMS 551 24,148 0 0.00% 2 days 16:59:48 0
LASER AMS 93 1,805 0 0.00% 11:57:20 0
C-AMS 179 17,030 0 0.00% 22:03:39 0
C-LASER AMS 28 1,317 0 0.00% 03:40:32 0

I am just saying: As an Anti Missile boat, the Kitfox is superior to the Nova, because the ECM does bring more to the table than the ROF buff.



I do not consider myself a better pilot in this scenario. But the problem is that you bringing AMS only does so much. It kinda reminds me of being the only one immune during a zombie apocalypse. It only does so much. "Solving" the problem of AMS "weakness" would already be done if everybody was bringing 1 AMS. Instead of one person trying to cram as much as possible on their Mech. But you cannot affect what other people bring in their builds. And the majority of people do not bring AMS in any shape or form.

I have often wondered how match score is derived from AMS damage. That explains it. And you are partially correct on my stats. Depends on which mech I am using. Still trying to figure the optimum. The pir does better for ams damage whereas the nova does better as far as putting out pure damage. The kitfox falls in between. The damage I put out is limited in that I can only use one hand to play so lately I have stuck to the pir though I may have to relook at the kitfox as I prefer the jump mobility for positioning. Thanks for the insight.

Edited by Viagra Rage, 31 December 2018 - 06:06 AM.

[NRP]

So after a few matches in the Nova S, I am somewhat underwhelmed by 3 AMS. Even with the 30% ROF quirk, it doesn't really feel like it offers much protection. I did like the boost in match score though.

I'll try the Kitfox next. I think I already own that one too.

[Phoenix 72]

Something else you might want to try out. I found that for most applications, the Crab 27 works better than either the Kitfox or the Nova, mainly because it can take more of a punishment. It only fields 2 AMS and no ECM, but the surviveability is pretty good. And for most, non-extensive lurm days, 2 AMS should be good enough.

For me, it usually puts out more damage than the Nova because of that. However, that comes at the cost of lower AMS protection. Also, "more damage than the Nova" is often relative. I found my successes were due more to the fact that the Crab can take a lot of punishment and remain active. So I could often lead pushes and survive. And my team had an easier time mopping up when the red team spent a significant amount of heat in taking me down. But your damage numbers will never be spectacular, unless you live very very long.

[NRP]

Thanks for the tips. Yeah I was originally gonna get the Crab 27 when I thought of building an AMS mech because it has 2 AMS and I had forgotten about the Nova and Kitfox. Crabs are definitely better suited for more aggressive players.

[UnkerZ]

Hmm no mention of the Wolfhound here? I was pretty happy with the wolfies extended dual AMS range - at the same time he can be loaded with 2 large lasers and still do decent light support in addition to a relatively huge AMS umbrella.

My quad PIR has almost stopped an entire ATM12x2 volley, but the last 3-5 missiles still goes through. It effectively wipes out nearly all of a C-LRM20x2 volleys overhead, but still not quite the missile eating bot I'm dreaming of cause of the IS LRM bundles.

Nova has been my best show all round - he can load triple ams cover with dual ppcs or a swarm of mini lasers for close combat. The PPCs have been reliable, dealing about 400 dmg on an average round with the JJs in support and some armor. Ive had bouts of my PIR exploding after eating a random shell meant for the assault im trying to cover..

[Joshua McEvedy]

NRP, on 30 December 2018 - 09:39 AM, said:

I've been thinking about building an AMS mech too. Forgot about the Nova and Kitfox. I'll see if I already own these.

I'd also like to know the answers to the OP's questions.

I saw a Piranha last week with 4 AMSs and a heavy medium laser, and it just eat up the LRMs thrown its way.

[Koniving]

KassimBaba, on 30 December 2018 - 07:43 AM, said:

AMS ROF Quirks - Assuming it applies for both AMS and LAMS - does this mean LAMS shoots more and thus heats up more as well? Or does it follow its stats heat? Faster rate of fire consumes more ammo, it would make sense it would generate heat just as fast (I don't use Laser AMS much).

AMS Damage - Assuming that it applies to both AMS and LAMS, this would be amplified by any ROF quirk?

AMS Range - Is damage constant at all range, or falls off from effective to max? At what range does AMS attempt to fire? Max range or effective? If so, is it spending more ammo/heat to kill a missile at max range?

Projectile Speed - ??? I thought AMS fire is technically instant, so this should be irrelevant?

Also random question, does each AMS target a different missile or all target one for faster killing? Possible scenario is SRMs when each AMS doesn't have enough time to shoot down within the travel time, but four to one theoretically should.

Not gonna read through the thread to see if these are actually answered as its faster to just answer them.

AMS ROF Quirks - Assuming it applies for both AMS and LAMS - does this mean LAMS shoots more and thus heats up more as well? Or does it follow its stats heat?

Yes.

AMS Damage - Assuming that it applies to both AMS and LAMS, this would be amplified by any ROF quirk?

The skill tree "Overload" skill/quirk only increases the damage per second per "unit" of AMS, if AMS is given a rate of fire quirk to consume units faster, then yes your damage per second would go up by the rate of fire percentage.

AMS Range - Is damage constant at all range, or falls off from effective to max? At what range does AMS attempt to fire? Max range or effective? If so, is it spending more ammo/heat to kill a missile at max range?

AMS has no concept of damage falloff. Its literally a proximity ticker. Something enters the proximity, it ticks numbers until the proximity is clear.

Projectile Speed - ??? I thought AMS fire is technically instant, so this should be irrelevant?

This refers to the particle effect like machine guns. It is, but is included because every other weapon that generates a "particle" or "projectile" other than an actual laser has it and it is just part of how the UI works.

Also random question, does each AMS target a different missile or all target one for faster killing? Possible scenario is SRMs when each AMS doesn't have enough time to shoot down within the travel time, but four to one theoretically should.

All AMS units target the closest missile first and ticks it off. It then instantly transitions to the next, and the next, and the next.

If there's a constant stream of 5 to 20 missiles with only half a second in between, there's a chance that AMS will hang too long on a missile that's already been destroyed and gradually stop being effective (as the next one it targets will have already hit you, etc). Having two or more AMS and AMS Overload will most certainly reduce any issues with this.

As for a question you didn't ask:

AMS ignores walls, and based on AMS rewards given when it shoots through walls, one may assume it destroys missiles. Need confirmation though.

Edited by Koniving, 03 January 2019 - 11:41 AM.

[frumpylumps]

PGI please increase score and credit rewards for playing AMS support roles.

[crazytimes]

frumpylumps, on 03 January 2019 - 10:15 PM, said:

PGI please increase score and credit rewards for playing AMS support roles.

You feel the reward for someone sitting there passively destroying someone elses almost passive missile firing should be rewarded even better? I am not comfortable that that would move the meta in a more desirable direction.

[FireStoat]

During the most recent lootbag event I was running the 3 AMS Purifier with 2 standard and 1 laser AMS, and then short ranged lasers and machine guns for the rest. I did use AMS Overload x2 from the skill picks, and it did speed up the AMS rate of fire substantially - which is the reason I only took a single energy AMS. My goal was to consistently get 2 lootbags per match, every match, to finish out the event as quickly as possible and it did the job without issue.

I'd run off to my Charlie lance in a Quickdrop, stick next to whichever 2 of them would actually fight next to each other, and just rake in the missile fire for the match. I'd reposition at times to be fully forward of them by a margin so I'd shoot down more missiles. Around the time of the midgame I'd be out of AMS ammo or nearly out but by then I was facing enemy mechs with open armor. Easy Peasy. The heart of the matter is events and quickdrops = tons of missiles on the weekends so the build works fine for that. Outside of weekend events, I wouldn't bother.