5 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

Happy new year everyone!

So, being that the Corsair is the first non-factory produced Frankenmech into MWO (despite the clearly standard production model nomanclature depicting the variants as 5th through 7th iteration models) (Cataphract doesn't count, its made in several factories and is churned in large scale production)...and as far as I know the only Frankenmech (battlefield improvisation) to be featured in a Mechwarrior title.. I thought it'd be fun to play a game of count the (full) arms.

By this I mean an arm going from upper to hand.
Those with a lower arm actuator as well will also get special mention.
It is worth noting unless the mech has both lower arm actuators, its left/right aiming ability with the arms is limited to 10 degrees until PGI does something about that rule. If it has neither it will have no left/right capability with the arms independent of the body.

The main image is of course a mech with one full arm. Note even if it is used to show different patterns, it is not indicative of the arms for the hero. As the Hero has a left arm and the image has a right arm.

Lets continue.
Note: PGI's named the mechs based on Star League Nomanclature for reasons completely unknown and is somewhat inconsistent with it (for many of these "R" variants should be "V" to fit with the weaponry supplied).
As such I've decided to poke a bit of fun at them by spelling out what the Star League Nomanclature used on them means so as to show why its unfitting of not only pirate-made improvised battlefield salvage but also of what they even are equipped with:
(It would have made more sense to name them akin to the Fire Ant variant of the Flea by giving them actual names).

1) Corsair 5R (5th iteration direct-fire Ranger)
Right arm full.
Cbill cost (Megamek, 3063)
8,692,808 C-bills (this differs from Sarna's listed price)
Cost of this 'Mech in US dollars in real world 2016 value to BT 3062 value if it were produced in a factory:
$62,588,217.60*
*Does not include US taxes.
(Pirates can totally afford to mass produce this! ....Not.)

2) Corsair 6R (6th iteration direct fire Ranger)
Right arm full.

3) Corsair 7A (7th iteration prototype)
No full arms.

4) Corsair 5T (5th iteration Tactical artillery)
Two full arms.
Has no artillery weaponry at all, defying the logic of the Star League name. Is instead an AC/2 boat.

5) Corsair 7R (7th iteration direct fire Ranger)
Has no full arms.
Is the Corsair missile boat, which "T" is the Star League nomanclature for missile boats. In fairness, all the missiles equipped are rocket launchers.

6) "Ravager"
Left arm full.
"The original Corsair."
Pilot: Jake Kalmar
Cost in cbills if produced in a factory:
19,917,008 C-bills
Cost in USD if produced in a factory:
$143,402,457.60*
*Does not include US taxes.

7) Unnamed hero.
Both arms full.
Pilot: Unnamed.

No Corsair has a lower arm actuator without a hand.
Note: All cbill prices are in Megamek set at 3063.
MWO cbill prices are based on a culmination of parts at a discount (otherwise that 17 million blood asp would be 29 million+)

Edited by Koniving, 01 January 2019 - 12:07 PM.

[Koniving]

Link (due to an issue with the forums posting PGI's SVG format, I can't get it to display, and converting it to a gif gets me a blank white screen, but using the link gets you a big image so enjoy.)
Art for the main Corsair hero's pattern scheme concept. (Note again: The Ravager will NOT have a right arm but instead a LEFT arm).
(Ravager will be distinct from the rest in being the only one with a full left arm without a full right arm.)

Art for the Holiday Bonus unnamed Corsair hero. Note: This one will have two arms according to the table.

(Side note: I like the color scheme on this second one. I hope this art holds up in the final version in terms of the scheme/pattern).

Worth noting: It is very likely that the Corsair's arms will be of assymetrical length. Though it is doubtful their physical appearance will change across variants with the full arm equipped. (I doubt, though would love, if one right arm had the fine actuators as shown, another had a battlefist or Thunderbolt-esque claw, etc.)

[Kaeb Odellas]

I'm curious what the different arm/hand actuator situation for each variant means in terms of the mech's appearance. Do the 7A and 7R variants get two tiny gimp arms since neither arm has lower or hand actuators? Does the 5T get two full arms? Does the Ravager have a reverse-sized setup to the 5R and 6R because of the reversed actuator placement?

It would totally fit the background of the mech if each variant was wildly different in appearance and hitboxes from the others. I'd be pretty stoked if this was the case.

[Koniving]

Kaeb Odellas, on 01 January 2019 - 06:44 PM, said:

I'm curious what the different arm/hand actuator situation for each variant means in terms of the mech's appearance. Do the 7A and 7R variants get two tiny gimp arms since neither arm has lower or hand actuators? Does the 5T get two full arms? Does the Ravager have a reverse-sized setup to the 5R and 6R because of the reversed actuator placement?

It would totally fit the background of the mech if each variant was wildly different in appearance and hitboxes from the others. I'd be pretty stoked if this was the case.

Such would be awesome, but given patterns and the like, its probable that the arm in question will be more like the shoulder we see on the image's left arm. Though what we see has some kind of odd little stub coming down from it as if whatever was there is now lost with time.

It could be as different as Catapults once were, with C1 (and A1), C4 and K having three entirely different arms before MWO homogenized the C1 and C4 arms.

Me and a friend in the C1 (left) and C4 respectively.

(For these two, the "pattern" artwork for things like Buccaneer were different for each arm, so while one said "Incoming Missiles" the other said something like "Missiles Everywhere!")


So PGI does have that ability.
But with so many paint patterns, it is likely we'll see 3 different arms. "Right arm" "Left arm" and "No arm". As opposed to "Right Arm, Right Arm 2", etc.
I sincerely doubt we'll see different side torso looks for example.
If we do get unique arms, then you should expect this phenomena:

The legs of these two Timber Wolves are different as one is the Invasion version with unique leg geometry. Both are using the same pattern and same "Titanium White" paint on the entire machine.

In terms of fluff, each Corsair should have wildly different weights ranging from 60 to 100 tons, but such would be too much to expect here as well.
95 ton mechs in Battletech are the rarest weight (that isn't above 100 tons and below 20 tons).
(If you include industrial mechs, there's just as many 15 ton mechs as there are 95 ton mechs... More if you keep it under 3080. The Flea itself, formerly the "Trooper" didn't get its name until the 15 ton Flea 14, which was a 15 ton 'Mech that acted as an APC to carry troops [standard or battle armor] on its hind section with the ability to jump twice in the same time it took any other mech to jump once... thus came the name "The Flea." Sadly this 1980s gem seems to have been retconned by the Flea 4 which carries the Flea name despite being a 4th iteration, where the "Trooper" had originally gone through 13 prior redesigns before landing at what became known as the Flea 14. [Kinda think its a shame that a hero Flea didn't get jumpjets as a nod to the 14].)
Beyond that, to say space pirates made all Corsairs is...unlikely. But given that it is fluffed as a Periphery term for heavy to assault frankenmechs, pretty much any insignificant kingdom could have one to several Corsairs of various tonnages. (But this is further reason that the nomanclature doesn't make sense).

[Lugin]

Just out of curiosity, is there a source on the Star League nomenclature for variants? Or just observation of patterns over the years?
Been digging into how it shifted on and off over the years, but never seen a distinct list for League-era coding.
Succession Wars and later are fairly easy based on faction.

[Koniving]

Lugin, on 02 January 2019 - 04:02 AM, said:

Just out of curiosity, is there a source on the Star League nomenclature for variants? Or just observation of patterns over the years?
Been digging into how it shifted on and off over the years, but never seen a distinct list for League-era coding.
Succession Wars and later are fairly easy based on faction.

Observation and collective research of about a dozen and a half BT lore enthusiasts, unfortunately.

The Star League Sourcebook addresses everything except that. Planets, religion, social structure, nobility, every unit that ever existed and which ones joined the exodus, comments from chancelors, and even uniform descriptions of every job from custodian to commander, as well as the 12 principles of command (in which the 12th principle is mercy).

In general they don't openly spell it out but they are fairly consistent as long as the mech wasn't added after 2007, from there consistency is thrown out the window in the face of retcons and additions. (Far easier to understand is post-Star League nomenclature as the letters generally refer to the faction that wanted its production and the number to the physical model. For example in Shadow Hawks, there's the 2K which uses the 2nd iteration model customized on the line to fit Kurita's needs. But after the 5th iterations are on the field [with a fluffed sized change to accomodate a number of bulkier things in the same weight], Kurita gets a 3K model based on the 3rd iteration which is smaller in size before the Phoenix project and the mass redesign that led to the 5th iteration).

Some examples of the Star League nomanclature lower case b represents royal guard. T almost always sports long range missiles in large quantities of 2 or more large launchers (Awesome 8T for example), V is usually something that crosses two other variant's long and close range capabilities for something that can do a little bit of everything but focuses on nothing. R has always has some sort of ballistic weapon (including PPCs).

(Note: Warhammer 6R is the mainstay of the Star League era, with letter variants made of the same physical model but customized to order with D being Davion, K being Kurita, L being Liao. The 4 and 5 are added by the retcons, so naturally they're inconsistent, especially with 4 being "3080". Unless they used a much older blueprint, hard to imagine why they would do this. Though in many cases, earlier Star League era designs were superior in terms of targeting, sensors, etc. Or perhaps there's a fluff reason for why that specific base model is being churned out at that time, such as an old abandoned factory or an old blueprint, being unable to secure something newer. It is the Dark Ages Era after all.)

R isn't actually used by the 3030+ ages for anything but old relics. Even given that the Corsairs are being made from old relics, there's no reason to use the names. Personally I'm gonna call my first non-hero Corsair "Gary."
Now I just need a warhorn that does nothing but say "Ha ha, Gary... Gary? Garrry!"

Edited by Koniving, 02 January 2019 - 09:41 AM.