14 replies to this topic

[juxstapo]

And by "good place" I mean performing alright within their roles, with no special whatsis that causes players to cry OP?

What led to this internal debate was my Wolfhounds...
These past two weeks have marked my first stretched return to MWO in quite a while, and I was pleased to find my wolfhounds were still performing admirably since the embiggening.

(Gifted myself a Grinner for Christmas; as an aside I didn't realize Stealth armor killed Your radar as well and skylined my rear armor to the enemy team on Canyon with the NGNG crowd livestreaming... dead within 40 seconds of match start... yay. It got better afterward.)

And yet they have enough caveats that they aren't considered broken. Even with my rusty, lackadaisical skills they reward good positioning, etc. And die when they're supposed to.

Oddly, I personally find my Jenners to also be in a good spot. They are still fragile, but dumping points into survival and mobility has made them pleasant to play and I get consistently "decent" damage and match scores with a strict adherence to shoot and scoot.

So what mechs would you consider balanced? Not skewing to the "too good" or "rather suck" sides of the spectrum? (i.e. which ones should PGI leave firmly alone henceforth)

I haven't tested mine in awhile, but seeing them in game leads me to believe Victors could be added to this list.

I've always adored my Blackjacks, too strong or weak? I think balanced.

Griffins suffer from 55-ton stretch disease, but I don't think it affects them too badly. Overall I'd call them good. Shawks still drive like trucks, so I don't know on that one.

Atlai are right were I personally want them. Scary and intimidating, but perfectly killable (soloable) with each weight class with good tactics.

Ooo! Since the shrinking I think Catapults are kewl. Their survivability is increased, but they aren't be-all insta-takes due to weapon limitations and so forth.

Cataphracts are..... I'm... not sure. I don't want to speak out of turn and incur the nerf hammer again. (wistful sigh at poptarting 3D's, ). Their current durability is offset by low weapon mounts I feel.

Jagers are still glass cannons, but they're really supposed to be..

[tutzdes]

It is a pretty tough question to answer.

Let's take your Wolfhound Grinner as an example. It is not super-dooper-QP-meta, so we don't see Alpha lances consisting of Grinners. Yet this mech was always present in "Mechs that are utterly OP and destroy all opposition in QP" list, composed by top-tier players. Average puggie doesn't consider it OP as he is able to hit and deal minor damage to it (unlike it is with Fleas or Piranhas) and in the hands of good player it is an absolute monster, that carries games easily (on par with best Piranha variants).

Some mechs are generally considered best of the best, but for me those are just average.

Some mechs, considered average, but I like them a lot. For me it may seem that some of these are actually top-tier hidden gems, but ok, let's consider those being "in a good place" ^___^
If not stated otherwise, "Locusts" should be read as "some Locust variants", same with other chassis.
These are very good and fun to play:

Lights: some Osiris variants, Fleas (majority), Locusts, Commandos, Urbanmech, Mist Lynx
Mediums: Cicada, Vulcan, Wolverine, Arctic Wolf, Viper, Huntsman
Heavies: Dragon, Catapult, Thunderbolt Top Dog, Grasshopper, Mad Dog, Linebacker, Summoner
Assaults: Atlas, Victor

Overall I like current mech balance (in QP at least), outliers are here but not heads above the competition. Some mechs are still bad, but it looks like PGI is trying to make those more viable with quirk therapy. So, there is some hope that every chassis will be viable and will have its fans.

[The Lost Boy]

The Rifleman is in a good spot for lightweight heavy. The Bushwacker is solid for tanky AF mediums. The Inner Spere Marauder for tanky AF heavy.

[tutzdes]

The Lost Boy, on 16 December 2018 - 11:12 AM, said:

The Rifleman is in a good spot for lightweight heavy. The Bushwacker is solid for tanky AF mediums. The Inner Spere Marauder for tanky AF heavy.

That's a bit weird for me to read ^___^

That's because I was always thinking that Rifleman is underperforming chassis (compared to many 55t-65t mechs) and both Bushwacker and Marauder are on somewhat overperforming side of the spectrum.

[justcallme A S H]

Are you asking a Question OP or just general commantary?

I can give a list of decent chassis in each weight class if people want.

tutzdes, on 16 December 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

That's a bit weird for me to read ^___^

That's because I was always thinking that Rifleman is underperforming chassis (compared to many 55t-65t mechs) and both Bushwacker and Marauder are on somewhat overperforming side of the spectrum.

IMO the RLF-5D is strong if played correctly. The others are mostly rubbish. The loyalty one is OK as well for 5 ERL, it is a little hot but can work.

Marauder IMO is avearge, it just isn't great with the hardpoint locations. The Bounty Hunter Hero is ok though with the new quirk.

Bushie is excellent, has been since its release.

[juxstapo]

justcallme A S H, on 16 December 2018 - 02:19 PM, said:

Are you asking a Question OP or just general commantary?

I can give a list of decent chassis in each weight class if people want.

A question; and then added my commentary.
And yes, please do, as long as 'decent' doesn't just mean 'the most bestest'

I suppose the dip and thrust of my thought process was "What chassis do you feel need neither nerfing or buffing? What do you feel PGI can safely leave alone?"

as tutz said:

tutzdes, on 16 December 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

So, there is some hope that every chassis will be viable and will have its fans.

[tutzdes]

justcallme A S H, on 16 December 2018 - 02:19 PM, said:

IMO the RLF-5D is strong if played correctly. The others are mostly rubbish. The loyalty one is OK as well for 5 ERL, it is a little hot but can work.

Currently there are 4 energy hardpoints on loyalty one, just checked in-game. I suck with peeps, so may be a little biased towards mechs that are good with those, but not so with average joe loadouts.

[Steel Raven]

The Hellbringer and Warhammer are my two current strongest mechs, I do my best work in heavies.

[juxstapo]

Steel Raven, on 20 December 2018 - 11:51 AM, said:

The Hellbringer and Warhammer are my two current strongest mechs, I do my best work in heavies.

K, but are they nerfable? Or do they have enough caveats that they aren't "too strong"?

The more I play with it the more I have to admit the Grinner is kinda easy mode and the JR-7s feel more like stretching your legs.

[The Basilisk]

Mechs that are "strong enough" but not the "one klick try hard" or "loughingstock of the day"

Black Knight and Grasshopper both servicable heavys but not good or meta. On Clan side Orion IIC, Mad Dog and Timberwolf.

Battlemaster, Banshee, Warhawk and Direwolf all serviceable but not good or exceptional.

Shadowhawk, IS Hunchback+HBK IIC, Griffin, Stormcrow and Shadowcat.

Jenner+ IIC, Kitfox, Urbanmech and Raven

This is my list of serviceable but not good or exceptional mechs.

[Steel Raven]

juxstapo, on 23 December 2018 - 11:26 PM, said:

K, but are they nerfable? Or do they have enough caveats that they aren't "too strong"?

I got the Hellbringer when it had zero quirks and Clan weapons have gone through a number of nerfs, it's still one of my strongest mechs thanks to decent hotboxes and plenty of loadout options.

Likewise the Warhammer just fits my play style.

[Mister Maf]

The IS Orion and several but not all variants of the Cataphract are in a very good spot, IMO. The CTF-1X, -2X, and -3L with MASC in particular are good because they have strong quirks and high energy mounts to make up for the low... everything else mounts. If you want a build for your 3L, I'd be happy to share mine.

The Vindicator-1X can only really mount some slight variants of one particular build, but it does the build really well without being OP. Actually, that's part of the reason why it does well, because people don't consider it as big of a threat as the mech it's standing next to when they really probably should. The Roughnecks are all great and I don't know the last time I heard anyone say the Sun Spider was particularly overpowered or underpowered since its hitboxes were redone. I'd also say the Crab and Victor are also pretty solid without necessarily standing out compared to, say, the Bushwacker or Cyclops.

The Commando stands out for being tanky as heck for a light but it comes with the drawbacks of limited firepower and using an IS XL, so I'd say it's balanced as well. I've also heard a lot of secondhand love for the Javelin but have never had a particularly hard time dealing with enemy Javelins, so make of that what you will. Urbanmechs are also very good but not OP because they're slow and have no torso weapon mounts. Can't particularly complain about the Kit Fox, either.

As for hero mechs, the Griffin Ares is pretty all-around solid as a line medium and can mount a lot of firepower with above-average Griffin survivability thanks to its structure quirks and shield arms — but it has to mount a relatively slow engine to do it (by my standards anyway), and most of its weaponry is mounted on one side and thus is easily disarmed. Fair tradeoffs, IMO. The Centurion YLW isn't seen very often but if you actually take the time to pilot one you'll find that its quirks perfectly synchronize an AC20 with medium pulse lasers for reliable burst damage, and its speed (XL 300) and survival quirks combined with an improved torso twist rate for the shield arm make it a strong but by no means undefeatable flanker (not to mention the extremely loud paintjob that makes it stand out in a crowd).

That's my two cents from personal experience, anyway.

Edited by Mister Maf, 25 December 2018 - 10:06 AM.

[juxstapo]

These... are exactly the sorts of replies I wanted. Thanks guys.

and I love seeing a Yen-Lo in the mix. First hero makes me smile.

[Yiryi-Sa]

Vindicator 1AA is in a really good place; can do a variety of interesting builds on it. I find it tankier than my BSW at times.

[TripleEhBeef]

I'd put the Roughneck on the list of "mechs in a good spot". It's not the supreme mech in its weight class, but it's got solid hitboxes, some high mount hardpoints, and enough open tonnage to run solid ballistic/missile mixes.