13 replies to this topic

[War Kitten]

Greetings All,

I have been wondering how the armor v damage work. If I have a weapon that does 10 dam and armor on one spot that has 20 pts, when its hit ( direct hit, not spread all over the place), does the weapon take off 10 armor leaving 10 or is there some equation where the weap does 10 dam, but the armor absorbs 5 before 5 comes off leaving 15 or some such?

On a side note: I have been seeing reversed decals...how do you do that? I have a #2 shark grin decal I would like to flip or do I need #1?

Thank you all for any help!

War Kitten
"You guys are sleeping together?!"
"Only *after* we have sex....."

[Spinosapper]

War Kitten, on 27 December 2018 - 02:11 AM, said:

...If I have a weapon that does 10 dam and armor on one spot that has 20 pts, when its hit ( direct hit, not spread all over the place), does the weapon take off 10 armor leaving 10 ..

Correct

War Kitten, on 27 December 2018 - 02:11 AM, said:

On a side note: I have been seeing reversed decals...how do you do that? I have a #2 shark grin decal I would like to flip or do I need #1?

I think you press "F" to flip decals. You can find some instructions in blue on the right side of your screen when you are placing the decal.

Cheers

[Bloodwitch]

War Kitten, on 27 December 2018 - 02:11 AM, said:

Greetings All,

I have been wondering how the armor v damage work. If I have a weapon that does 10 dam and armor on one spot that has 20 pts, when its hit ( direct hit, not spread all over the place), does the weapon take off 10 armor leaving 10 or is there some equation where the weap does 10 dam, but the armor absorbs 5 before 5 comes off leaving 15 or some such?

No easy answer, it depends on variables.

All weapons have a maximum range, how far out that is depends on the weapon itself. Beyond maximum range a weapon will do no damage.

Half the weapons have an optimal range. If it does 10 damage for example, it will do full 10 damage as long as it not goes over the optimal range, from optimal range to maximum range the damage it can do will fall off.

Some weapons have a minimal range, they either will do no damage at all below minimal range ((PPC) or have a damage rising curve (Clan LRM).


Then there is the damage migration, which means that, if a part of a mech is already destroyed, only a portion of the damage applied will transition to the next undestroyed component. (example destroyed arm will get hit by ac10, 4 damage will migrate to attached sidetorso and 6 damage will be negated. Likewise, destroyed arm(stump) will get hit by ac10, 4 damage will be moved to attached but already destroyed sidetorso, from there 1,6 damage will be migrated towards center torso)

[TheCaptainJZ]

Yes, both the above answers. At the most fundamental level, it is 1 damage = 1 armor (or internal, though internals are more complicated--iirc, any hit to internals always does a small amount of bonus damage regardless). But there's other variables in play such as critical hits (no armor), weapons fired outside of its optimal range, hits on components that are destroyed (damage transfer), Clan ER PPC splash damage, minimum ranges, etc. etc. etc. Skills also play a role here, but whereas there used to be modules that increased weapon damage, we now have skills that increase the amount of armor a mech has, not to mention quirks. Still, even with more armor, it's still a 1 to 1 point system at the core. Even Ferro fiberous armor does not increase any armor protection, it just weighs less (this was a common question long ago).

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 27 December 2018 - 08:46 AM.

[Koniving]

War Kitten, on 27 December 2018 - 02:11 AM, said:

Greetings All,

I have been wondering how the armor v damage work. If I have a weapon that does 10 dam and armor on one spot that has 20 pts, when its hit ( direct hit, not spread all over the place), does the weapon take off 10 armor leaving 10 or is there some equation where the weap does 10 dam, but the armor absorbs 5 before 5 comes off leaving 15 or some such?

Against armor, its a simple 1 to 1.
Weapon doing 10 damage will do 10 damage to armor.
There are two exceptions:

1} If the spot has a "door", such as a missile door or Crab/King Crab Claw and it is closed, there's a 20% damage resistance and as such you'd do 9 damage to the body section that has the door/claw. Kodiak's claws do not count.

This is only functional if the door light in the cockpit is red. As the door light is removed if there is no equipment in the door and the door will not function manually or automatically if there is no weapon inside the door, it was suspected and later tested to find that the damage resistance (aka armor strength) does not apply if the hardpoints for the door are empty. (Destroyed does not matter, only if one is installed).

2) If there's an armor strength quirk involved. These quirks are still in game, however no mech currently has it. Unlike additional armor which gives more points per ton, armor strength gives damage resistance.

To note: A missile door / Crab claw while closed gives an armor strength quirk of 20% on that body part until it is opened by firing or manually, which restores once it is closed. When applied to mechs in the past before it was changed to just additional armor, it functioned identically to what doors do except without an off (open door) switch.

--------

Damage against structure is a little more complicated.

If there's no equipment (including actuators, engine, etc.) then you do 1 to 1 damage.
If there is equipment then there's a dice role to see if you do equipment damage (which is a separate type of damage)
If you don't, then its still 1 to 1 damage.
If you roll a single crit, then you do equipment damage equal to your weapon's base damage (unless its LBX then you do double), and that damage (lets say 10) now has 15% of that total amount (1.5) added to your actual damage to structure (so you do 11.5 damage instead of 10).
You can also do double crit and triple crit, which to structure would be (+3 = 13 damage) and (+4.5 = 14.5 damage).

---

I've kept the answer as simple as I can, I hope this helps.

Edit: See also Kunato's post for additional factors in regards to the weapons themselves and destroyed body parts. JZ's post vaguely refers to what I've posted in addition to adding the Clan ER PPC scripted 'splash' (its not genuine splash as that got removed from the game long ago due to a damage multiplying effect the cry engine has for splash damage).

Quote

On a side note: I have been seeing reversed decals...how do you do that? I have a #2 shark grin decal I would like to flip or do I need #1?

"F" when placing it will flip it.

Edited by Koniving, 27 December 2018 - 09:25 AM.

[Mister Maf]

Koniving, on 27 December 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

explanation

Are you sure? It was my understanding that while the missile bay doors provide a damage resistance, the crab claws do not because they open instantly and are just cosmetic.

[Koniving]

Mister Maf, on 27 December 2018 - 02:59 PM, said:

Are you sure? It was my understanding that while the missile bay doors provide a damage resistance, the crab claws do not because they open instantly and are just cosmetic.

Sounds like something to test but I can safely say that losing my arms in crabs and king crabs is so rare that many have never lost them (aside from st loss).

This said that's pretty meaningless as no one in their right mind would aim for those arms.

Maybe I can get someone to come with me to test this weekend.
Also need to find out if resistance applies to structure.

[Horseman]

Mister Maf, on 27 December 2018 - 02:59 PM, said:

Are you sure? It was my understanding that while the missile bay doors provide a damage resistance, the crab claws do not because they open instantly and are just cosmetic.

They do not open instantly as far as I know.

[TheCaptainJZ]

The claws should give a damage resistance bonus based on what I remember hearing long ago when they were put in the game. As for them instantly opening, it's actually that they instantly fire when opening whileas missile doors wait .5 secs to fire. Maybe because the claws are more complicated of a piece to open and this is a programming decision, maybe because they house ballistic or energy weapons only. I doubt this would prevent the bonus from applying though.

[Koniving]

Horseman, on 28 December 2018 - 01:33 AM, said:

They do not open instantly as far as I know.

When firing, the claws open instantly to let the shot out and immediately close. There's no functional advantage to leaving them open other than for fun. I think it was more of a programming decision. Claw arms are exceptionally large arms compared to those of other mechs of similar weight.

I do know it was specifically written by PGI that the Kodiak's claws would not provide the same damage resistance and would be purely cosmetic. (Its arms are not much bigger than an Atlas's, and there's no vital role that the arms play in the mech's ability to function in MWO, where a King Crab would be virtually neutered. Crabs.. I think they got it just because they're crabs, but in general most only have a single claw with I think one having no claws and one having having two)

(Also fun is some Cosairs will have a full left arm, some will have a full right arm, one has both and one has neither).

Would anyone be up for testing claw and door damage resistance Saturday morning EST?

[Horseman]

Tested the delay

Koniving, on 28 December 2018 - 07:19 PM, said:

When firing, the claws open instantly to let the shot out and immediately close.

Tested in training grounds... you're right, there's no delay now (strangely, I remember it being there a few years back)

[Koniving]

Horseman, on 29 December 2018 - 04:24 AM, said:

Tested the delayTested in training grounds... you're right, there's no delay now (strangely, I remember it being there a few years back)

Why do you think Rabies works so well in fish hunting?


Insta-doors.

Spoiler

Ignored the Piranha because I had an assault at 180 meters right in front of me hammering me hard. I've got a fair bit of back armor so it didn't concern me too much. In many of the Piranha is OP threads, I've got about 14 screens dedicated to scores while hunting them down. Claws pop open instantly for my LBXs/Gauss, and they stay open when my MGs fire. Even if the MGs are outside of the claws, so there's that issue.

If you're still up, I'm in game if you wanna test the damage resistance of claws / doors.

Edited by Koniving, 29 December 2018 - 10:05 AM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

AFAIK, Claws (Crab & King Crab) provide 10% damage reduction in their closed state.

[Koniving]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 02 January 2019 - 01:38 AM, said:

AFAIK, Claws (Crab & King Crab) provide 10% damage reduction in their closed state.

I actually recall seeing this before when first discovering the missile doors got bumped up to 20% from 10%.