26 replies to this topic

[Navid A1]

Chris Lowrey, on 18 January 2019 - 06:32 PM, said:

I was specifically asked to comment on this subject by Navid himself.

And I appreciate the response.

Yet, would have been good if someone who knows how it works under the hood exactly could comment.
You've stated that this is not how it works.
And you are probably right.

Yet this is an attempt based on observation and measurement, to extract the core mechanics. Thats all. Look at it as a question that is asked.
Nothing will change with regards to gameplay if you don't (or not allowed to) provide an answer, or if you do provide one.

[justcallme A S H]

The core issue as I see it though as the in-game tooltip says the number it says. Yet in the backrground it looks to be 1.6x faster. That changes things as it is misleading.

Then suddenly 10% velocity from skill tree for instance. On 220m/s isn't a lot. On 350m/s then that's really head into a different argument, especially say over 500m. Talking a difference of 165m/s - almost the base value of LRMs!

I mean people are basing game play and calculations on the numbers provided and 165m/s is a whopping difference. If the numbers are different in the back end to the front end - then that absolutely needs addressing.

Thanks for the replies either way Chris. We aren't meaning to give you a hard time - more so get to the bottom of it all, and we all just passionate peeps!

[Kamikaze Viking]

If I were in Chris's shoes at this point i would say

"Please bear with me, I'll ask and get back to you"


Then I'd Ask permission,
Check any internal documentation,
Check with engineers while minimizing any distraction from their other jobs.


And then come back to comment.

Either way, Thank you Chris for engaging in this thread.

justcallme A S H, on 18 January 2019 - 11:16 PM, said:

The core issue as I see it though as the in-game tooltip says the number it says. Yet in the backrground it looks to be 1.6x faster. That changes things as it is misleading.

Then suddenly 10% velocity from skill tree for instance. On 220m/s isn't a lot. On 350m/s then that's really head into a different argument, especially say over 500m. Talking a difference of 165m/s - almost the base value of LRMs!

I mean people are basing game play and calculations on the numbers provided and 165m/s is a whopping difference. If the numbers are different in the back end to the front end - then that absolutely needs addressing.

Thanks for the replies either way Chris. We aren't meaning to give you a hard time - more so get to the bottom of it all, and we all just passionate peeps!

I'm curious as to what point in the equation the Velocity nodes get applied. And does it even make a difference to the final result? Its been a long time since i did math's properly but it looks like it works out the same either way.
Hence whether its applied to V Actual or V Stats the in game result is still the same % reduction on missile time to target.

[Monkey Lover]

I personally dont care how accurate the numbers are. If they fix it later thats great. I just want to see a buff to direct fire and a nerf to indirect. Reward the mechs sharing armor and playing with the team.

[Paul Inouye]

The flight path of LRMs from day one followed a messy algorithm of calculating time to target and then adjusting arc from there. Yes.. kinda funky but dealt with most cases. This has not changed over the years.

We recently added the LRM direct/indirect trajectory differential. Due to the way the previous algorithm calculated based on time instead of arc/distance and applying speed... the direct lower trajectory was not reaching target faster even though distance to target is shorter.

To compensate for this, we calculated a distance and arc based multiplier that would work a lot better than a straight up bug of lower trajectory = same time to target. Taking a general approach of using a perfect arc (half-circle) and reducing the distance of circumference to a flat line, this is basically 1/2 pi.

A multiplier of 1.5 was created and applied to missile speed. Now with this value, it's assumed that from now on missile speed gets a 1.5x multiplier to make up for the lack of arc. However, direct fire trajectory is not a flat line. But with this new base value for a speed multiplier, we could actually make the new arc become a factor of that speed multiplier. Because of this new low level arc, it is now calculated/simulated and results with a 0.1 speed reduction due to the increase in distance resulting in a 1.4x multiplier taking arc and speed into consideration from high trajectory to lower trajectory.

TL;DR:
What you see on the battlefield is missile speed x 1.4 when it is a direct line of fire, low trajectory flight.

[Galenthor Kerensky]

for the short time I tried lrms in the pts, I felt that when it was outside potential locking range, the game treated the lrms like they were mrms... which I found rather frustrating... As missiles are the only weapons system that requires a lockon to hit effectively, perhaps the lockon range could be increased a bit? and that way the "get your own locks" crowd will calm down a bit...

[Navid A1]

Paul Inouye, on 23 January 2019 - 04:36 PM, said:

The flight path of LRMs from day one followed a messy algorithm of calculating time to target and then adjusting arc from there. Yes.. kinda funky but dealt with most cases. This has not changed over the years.

We recently added the LRM direct/indirect trajectory differential. Due to the way the previous algorithm calculated based on time instead of arc/distance and applying speed... the direct lower trajectory was not reaching target faster even though distance to target is shorter.

To compensate for this, we calculated a distance and arc based multiplier that would work a lot better than a straight up bug of lower trajectory = same time to target. Taking a general approach of using a perfect arc (half-circle) and reducing the distance of circumference to a flat line, this is basically 1/2 pi.

A multiplier of 1.5 was created and applied to missile speed. Now with this value, it's assumed that from now on missile speed gets a 1.5x multiplier to make up for the lack of arc. However, direct fire trajectory is not a flat line. But with this new base value for a speed multiplier, we could actually make the new arc become a factor of that speed multiplier. Because of this new low level arc, it is now calculated/simulated and results with a 0.1 speed reduction due to the increase in distance resulting in a 1.4x multiplier taking arc and speed into consideration from high trajectory to lower trajectory.

TL;DR:
What you see on the battlefield is missile speed x 1.4 when it is a direct line of fire, low trajectory flight.

Thank you for the response Paul.

Here is the final estimation I managed to verify with tests:


Using that the following trajectory plots versus range can be obtained





And here are some in game tests for consistency:
1000m





500m




250m

Edited by Navid A1, 24 January 2019 - 01:51 PM.