38 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

To be completely fair, the Annihilator only ended up being good because they quirked its armor to high heaven and then gave it some weapon quirks on top of that.

It has since been nerfed, and they are now far less prevalent.

[Grus]

Bombast, on 18 January 2019 - 05:35 PM, said:

No, you can't have your {Godwin's Law}/Maus mech.

NIEN! VE HAZ TO HAVEZ ITZ NOW!! MAUS gives no F***s!!

But seriously, IMO, the majority of clan mechs dont have any sort of personality. What personality they do have is dictated by he weapons they carry not the behavior or flow of the mech.

Y E O N N E, on 18 January 2019 - 09:43 PM, said:

Clan 'Mech releases are lucky in that they don't have to pull double-duty as MW5 content, so we can get neat Clan 'Mechs like Bane or Stone Rhino.

IS are stuck with 'Mech releases that are gimpy because, according to Russ, they are trying to maximize resources and use them in both games. Hence no IS Omnis or other 3067+ 'Mechs for the foreseeable future.

Stone Rhino would be an in-game Clan-equivalent Annihilator and that could be pretty awesome. But then the DWF has another sad.

The dire has its place as a huge weapon platform/area denial. When you can place a 103 alpha pinpoint and not shut down, NO ONE wants to be hit by that.

And to be fair Bombast, I think the SR is more Russian than German... the bane how ever... all American.

[jjm1]

Y E O N N E, on 19 January 2019 - 01:19 AM, said:

To be completely fair, the Annihilator only ended up being good because they quirked its armor to high heaven and then gave it some weapon quirks on top of that.

It has since been nerfed, and they are now far less prevalent.

Well yeah. It goes to show how mechs can be as good or bad as PGIs balance dartboard decides. It's no use anyone looking at engine caps and geometry and making DOA/OP declarations.

If quirks and per-chassis agility variables didn't exist you could make performance predictions.

[FLG 01]

jjm1, on 19 January 2019 - 06:48 AM, said:

Well yeah. It goes to show how mechs can be as good or bad as PGIs balance dartboard decides. It's no use anyone looking at engine caps and geometry and making DOA/OP declarations.

I think it is the other way around: it is no use hoping for PGI to save a design from being doa.

Assessing the potential of a Mech in MWO is fair, and usually it is quite accurate. For every Annihilator there is a number of Mechs which performed more or less like predicted. Uziel, Hellspawn, Cougar and Thanatos e.g. were deemed below average pre-release, and they are.
That's because usually PGI does not hand out god quirks, so that a Mech will have to rely as much as on quirks as it relies on geometry, hardpoints, and engine cap. And if we are talking about a Clan Mech I certainly would not put any faith in PGI giving it good quirks.

[Grus]

FLG 01, on 19 January 2019 - 07:38 AM, said:

I think it is the other way around: it is no use hoping for PGI to save a design from being doa.

Assessing the potential of a Mech in MWO is fair, and usually it is quite accurate. For every Annihilator there is a number of Mechs which performed more or less like predicted. Uziel, Hellspawn, Cougar and Thanatos e.g. were deemed below average pre-release, and they are.
That's because usually PGI does not hand out god quirks, so that a Mech will have to rely as much as on quirks as it relies on geometry, hardpoints, and engine cap. And if we are talking about a Clan Mech I certainly would not put any faith in PGI giving it good quirks.

I know asking for good quirks on a clan mech is like asking Paul, Chris, Phil, ext. To not consume coffee and alcohol for a month but, for this mech I hope it would be a exemption.

[Y E O N N E]

jjm1, on 19 January 2019 - 06:48 AM, said:

Well yeah. It goes to show how mechs can be as good or bad as PGIs balance dartboard decides. It's no use anyone looking at engine caps and geometry and making DOA/OP declarations.

If quirks and per-chassis agility variables didn't exist you could make performance predictions.

We don't make "DoA/OP" declarations, we make "DoA/OP if XYZ conditions aren't met" declarations.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Y E O N N E, on 18 January 2019 - 09:43 PM, said:

Clan 'Mech releases are lucky in that they don't have to pull double-duty as MW5 content, so we can get neat Clan 'Mechs like Bane or Stone Rhino.

IS are stuck with 'Mech releases that are gimpy because, according to Russ, they are trying to maximize resources and use them in both games. Hence no IS Omnis or other 3067+ 'Mechs for the foreseeable future.

Stone Rhino would be an in-game Clan-equivalent Annihilator and that could be pretty awesome. But then the DWF has another sad.

I don't know about that. There are still a ton of good IS mechs they could add from the earlier TRO. I went through the list and there are 25 IS mechs not yet added from the 2750 and 3025 Technical Readouts. Here is a list.

Mongoose
Crocket
Flashman
Exterminator
Guillotine
Thug
Lancelot
Mercury
Thorn
Husser
Sentinal
Wyvern
Bombardier
Wasp
Stinger
Valkyrie
Ostscout
Clint
Hermes
Withworth
Hatchetman
Dervish
Ostroc
Ostsol
Crusader


Now I probably wouldn't be all that excited about most of them but there are some on that list I would love to see like the Flashman, Crusader, Exterminator and a few others.


As far as the Stone Rhino, at least it would look cool but its Clan and we all know what that means. Yeah no quirks and without quirks the hit boxes don't stand a chance. Actually if you think about it, the Stone Rhino has a double whammy going against it. Not only is it Clan but it is a Clan Battlemech. Honestly if PGI won't give the Direwolf with its horrible hit boxes a durability quirk, it sure the hell isn't going to give a 100 ton Clan Battlemech durability quirks.

[Y E O N N E]

Angel of Annihilation, on 19 January 2019 - 12:41 PM, said:

I don't know about that. There are still a ton of good IS mechs they could add from the earlier TRO. I went through the list and there are 25 IS mechs not yet added from the 2750 and 3025 Technical Readouts. Here is a list.

Problem is, none of them are terribly interesting this late in the game. None of them offer new build puzzles or loadouts that can't be decently replicated on another 'Mech of the same or similar weight. Do we really need another Rifleman in the Lancelot? Do we really need another Black Knight in the Penetrator? Yeah, the new ones might be slightly faster for the loadouts or have better mounts, but it's nothing that's going to shake-up how the game plays. Stinger and Wasp are 20 tonners with JJs and that would be novel, but I look at the hardpoints and just forehead.

IS Omnis, on the other hand, give us big energy hardpoint counts that only one BattleMech can replicate (Komodo, also not in the game), give us locked equipment to build (and quirk) around. That's why I'm not enthused about IS releases going forward and why I want IS Omnis. It's new and exciting.

[Grus]

Y E O N N E, on 19 January 2019 - 12:49 PM, said:

Problem is, none of them are terribly interesting this late in the game. None of them offer new build puzzles or loadouts that can't be decently replicated on another 'Mech of the same or similar weight. Do we really need another Rifleman in the Lancelot? Do we really need another Black Knight in the Penetrator? Yeah, the new ones might be slightly faster for the loadouts or have better mounts, but it's nothing that's going to shake-up how the game plays. Stinger and Wasp are 20 tonners with JJs and that would be novel, but I look at the hardpoints and just forehead.

IS Omnis, on the other hand, give us big energy hardpoint counts that only one BattleMech can replicate (Komodo, also not in the game), give us locked equipment to build (and quirk) around. That's why I'm not enthused about IS releases going forward and why I want IS Omnis. It's new and exciting.

Why get excited about free birth garbage when you can be thrilled about the Stone Rhino!!

[Y E O N N E]

Grus, on 19 January 2019 - 12:59 PM, said:

Why get excited about free birth garbage when you can be thrilled about the Stone Rhino!!

Because I don't play Assaults much, lul.

I want a Grendel. I could have fun with that. Also Locust IIC. And Rifleman IIC. And Glass Spider...

Wrong thread for me!

[Grus]

Y E O N N E, on 19 January 2019 - 01:02 PM, said:

Because I don't play Assaults much, lul.

I want a Grendel. I could have fun with that. Also Locust IIC. And Rifleman IIC. And Glass Spider...

Wrong thread for me!

The SR is no mere assault mech. With 19 tons of armor it's a walking battleship!!

[FupDup]

jjm1, on 19 January 2019 - 06:48 AM, said:

Well yeah. It goes to show how mechs can be as good or bad as PGIs balance dartboard decides. It's no use anyone looking at engine caps and geometry and making DOA/OP declarations.

If quirks and per-chassis agility variables didn't exist you could make performance predictions.

In theory yes, quirks can make anything meta. In practice, PGI is very frequently stingy when it comes to giving out proper quirkage to gundams in need. PGI's adamant refusal to help bad robots is the reason why forumwarriors typically look at the innate, unchangeable variables like geo and tonnage in order to make performance predictions.

If our Balancing Overlords™ overcame their flaming hatred of the mere idea of strong quirks then you'd be right. I won't hold my breath on it though.

[Toothless]

Stone rhino fires both gauss out of one dorsal cannon...How exactly do you expect that to translate into MWO restrictions/art?

[Grus]

Toothless, on 20 January 2019 - 09:01 AM, said:

Stone rhino fires both gauss out of one dorsal cannon...How exactly do you expect that to translate into MWO restrictions/art?

Split the cannon to left and right torso hitboxes.

Actual art vs what comes out of them is an easy thing. Just put htt the gauss/ac/lbx cannon art there but both can fire from the same point.

Edited by Grus, 20 January 2019 - 09:17 AM.

[Toothless]

So if you want two different ballistic weapons they fire out of a dual center mounted cannon?

[Vellron2005]

As this mech was my favorite in MW2, I would love to see it in game..

Seeing that even in MW2 it had a huge problem with it's arms getting blown off, it would probably suck.

Regardless, I would much rather we get more quality maps than more mechs.

[Grus]

Toothless, on 20 January 2019 - 09:47 AM, said:

So if you want two different ballistic weapons they fire out of a dual center mounted cannon?

Precisely

Vellron2005, on 21 January 2019 - 02:40 AM, said:

As this mech was my favorite in MW2, I would love to see it in game..

Seeing that even in MW2 it had a huge problem with it's arms getting blown off, it would probably suck.

Regardless, I would much rather we get more quality maps than more mechs.

PGI's maps, while beautiful, have too much cover and are too small. Objectives arnt rewarding enough as it is so everything just devolves into a brawl. They have many things to fix on that front before I'd hope to see a new map.

Edited by Grus, 21 January 2019 - 06:00 AM.

[Grus]

Grisbane, on 21 January 2019 - 09:29 AM, said:

why would you want the Stone Rhino when the game is using Dark Age mechs (Mad 2 6s is a Dark Age design) I would be asking for things like the Mad Cat 3, Jupiter, Deimos, Cygnus, Jade Hawk, or Shrike

because who on clans wouldn't want this?




or this

Eww... just... ew..