31 replies to this topic

[Xulld]

The problem is how long it takes to get into a match and how long you end up shooting and basically engaging in combat vs. Rotating to stay alive and just marching across the map.

If there was a General Play option to run 8v8 on only small maps with 4 respawns this game would be 1000% more fun to play.

Just my two cents.

---

Also objectives are lame, at least make them realistic. Assault what? and why cannot we take it back? How about you loose respawns until you take it back? That would be fun and dynamic.

Dominate what? Why is the center of the map important? How about repair bays are there? That would again make it dynamic.

[Darian DelFord]

I actually timed it once. From the time I hit quick play match to the time I was able to move my mech was well over 5 minutes

[YueFei]

Yes, it'd be nice to have such a game mode. It provides players with a much higher volume of practice, compared to the normal game mode. This is especially important for new players as they climb the learning curve.

Imagine you wait 5 minutes to start marching your mech around. You then spend another minute getting in position. You make a mistake and explode within 15 seconds of engaging. Now you gotta wait another 6 minutes to try again.... this is a action-time:wait-time ratio of 1:24. If you played for 4 hours, you'd only be in combat for about 10 minutes.

A different game mode where players are able to take risks more often, get more practice peeking, cornering, shielding, etc., where you can play for 4 hours and be in actual combat action for 2 hours, would really help.

[Mechteric]

we'll agree to disagree on any respawns, but i certainly agree on the 8v8 part for casual play. 12v12 only need apply for the group queue.

[HammerMaster]

Xulld, on 23 January 2019 - 03:12 PM, said:

with 4 respawns

[LordNothing]

Xulld, on 23 January 2019 - 03:12 PM, said:

The problem is how long it takes to get into a match and how long you end up shooting and basically engaging in combat vs. Rotating to stay alive and just marching across the map.

If there was a General Play option to run 8v8 on only small maps with 4 respawns this game would be 1000% more fun to play.

Just my two cents.

---

Also objectives are lame, at least make them realistic. Assault what? and why cannot we take it back? How about you loose respawns until you take it back? That would be fun and dynamic.

Dominate what? Why is the center of the map important? How about repair bays are there? That would again make it dynamic.

one of the things i love about living legends, ffa mode, is the fights around the repair bays. you got 10 guys in damaged mechs trying to use the same repair bay while trying to kill eachother. and the first guy that gets there usually gets slagged on his way out. fun mechanics are fun. pgi should stop avoiding them out of fear of stepping on a few special snowflakes.

i also like fp because of the decks, building a good deck is as important as building a good mech. you have to fight in waves to be effective. you throw a deck and a longer clock at conquest and something magical happens, you get a match where the objectives matter. and on top of that you really dont have time to use all of the mechs in your deck, so you tend to fight a little more aggressively because you dont have to worry about having to sit out the rest of the match when your mechs are gone. theres a reason its the best mode in the game right now.

Edited by LordNothing, 23 January 2019 - 05:01 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

Yep, I will never understand the hardcore blowback against (well implemented) respawns. Esp considering the LL does it.

[El Bandito]

Jackal Noble, on 23 January 2019 - 05:06 PM, said:

Yep, I will never understand the hardcore blowback against (well implemented) respawns. Esp considering the LL does it.

That's cause LL maps were huge. In small maps OP is suggesting people can spawn camp the base easily after smashing one side.

[YueFei]

El Bandito, on 23 January 2019 - 05:39 PM, said:

That's cause LL maps were huge. In small maps OP is suggesting people can spawn camp the base easily after smashing one side.

I'm not suggesting that the normal game modes (with no respawn) be replaced.

Just the addition of a new game mode with respawns.

Spawn camping is easily solved by having the respawning mechs be invulnerable for a few seconds, and able to shoot immediately. Spawn campers would get wrecked.

The idea behind such a game mode is to help get new players into the flow of the game's basic mechanics, and reward them with lots and lots of instant action. A new player won't mind dying in 15 seconds if he can respawn in 5 seconds and be back into the fight again in 30 seconds. Better than waiting another 6 minutes. There'd be less of a problem with lack of aggression or risk taking in such a game mode.

The C-bill and XP rewards could be made really crappy so as to still incentivize players to participate in the no-respawn game modes we currently already have.

Yes, such a respawn game mode is silly and mindless and stupid, but even the wisest men enjoy some silliness now and then, and a respawn game mode has its place to introduce new players to the gameplay. Hell, even a veteran player might find it has utility to let them cram in a stupendous volume of raw practice for the basic mechanics.

Give new players a taste of mindless fun first, and then they'll be more likely to stick around for the more considered and deliberate no-respawn game modes.

[LordNothing]

im all for dropdecks everywhere just on the grounds that you dont have to wait several minutes between drops. you make a mistake, you got another mech to work with, if you make the same mistake four times, that's on you. had a bad wave one, take vengeance in wave 2. playing the game is a lot more fun that watching icons spin.

[Wil McCullough]

YueFei, on 24 January 2019 - 02:21 AM, said:

I'm not suggesting that the normal game modes (with no respawn) be replaced.

Just the addition of a new game mode with respawns.

Spawn camping is easily solved by having the respawning mechs be invulnerable for a few seconds, and able to shoot immediately. Spawn campers would get wrecked.

The idea behind such a game mode is to help get new players into the flow of the game's basic mechanics, and reward them with lots and lots of instant action. A new player won't mind dying in 15 seconds if he can respawn in 5 seconds and be back into the fight again in 30 seconds. Better than waiting another 6 minutes. There'd be less of a problem with lack of aggression or risk taking in such a game mode.

The C-bill and XP rewards could be made really crappy so as to still incentivize players to participate in the no-respawn game modes we currently already have.

Yes, such a respawn game mode is silly and mindless and stupid, but even the wisest men enjoy some silliness now and then, and a respawn game mode has its place to introduce new players to the gameplay. Hell, even a veteran player might find it has utility to let them cram in a stupendous volume of raw practice for the basic mechanics.

Give new players a taste of mindless fun first, and then they'll be more likely to stick around for the more considered and deliberate no-respawn game modes.

That means you'll be increasing the number of buckets.

Increasing the number of buckets will make it harder to, and cause it to take longer for players to find games. Not only will it not help, it'll make the problem that op outlined even worse.

[Angel of Annihilation]

CapperDeluxe, on 23 January 2019 - 04:11 PM, said:

we'll agree to disagree on any respawns, but i certainly agree on the 8v8 part for casual play. 12v12 only need apply for the group queue.

Respawns aren't a bad idea at all but I will agree that with the current quick play environment, it probably wouldn't work. For myself I still wish they would have used MW:LL for the game play model and game up with a game design that encouraged you to keep your mech alive rather than fight to the death. However that ship sailed a long time ago.

[Xulld]

Nothing is going to stop a dominate team from destroying the other team, that is a problem of match maker and not respawn mechanics. If the entire team respawns at once and quickly, has cover fire from the drop ship it could allow a flip if the aggressive team is too aggressive. That is a fun dynamic in my book.

There is no unsolvable problem if its implemented right. My main beef is time in combat, not time to live. That is my point, no one is playing this game to march around a map or wait in a queue alive or dead waiting for repawn. We want to shoot the enemy and in quick play people are passive because they hate dying quickly for making a mistake.

I mean we could bring back sensors worth a **** as well so you are not surprised by the whole team over a hill 200 meters away. But given the way sensors work and how easy for an aggressive player to be surprised by the entire 12 man its easy to die quick in this game and be sent back to the re-loading screen just to wait again for 5+ minutes for the next game and stompy march time getting back into range to shoot and have fun again.

Angel of Annihilation, on 24 January 2019 - 05:49 AM, said:

Respawns aren't a bad idea at all but I will agree that with the current quick play environment, it probably wouldn't work. For myself I still wish they would have used MW:LL for the game play model and game up with a game design that encouraged you to keep your mech alive rather than fight to the death. However that ship sailed a long time ago.

That is why I say they should add an additional QP mode for respawns, give us options. 8v8 and 12v12. Where 8v8 has respawn mechanics. They could even make it a check mark like servers where you can queue for both or not so queue times are not adversely effected if you q for both.

Edited by Xulld, 24 January 2019 - 02:05 PM.

[Wil McCullough]

Xulld, on 24 January 2019 - 01:48 PM, said:

Nothing is going to stop a dominate team from destroying the other team, that is a problem of match maker and not respawn mechanics. If the entire team respawns at once and quickly, has cover fire from the drop ship it could allow a flip if the aggressive team is too aggressive. That is a fun dynamic in my book.

There is no unsolvable problem if its implemented right. My main beef is time in combat, not time to live. That is my point, no one is playing this game to march around a map or wait in a queue alive or dead waiting for repawn. We want to shoot the enemy and in quick play people are passive because they hate dying quickly for making a mistake.

I mean we could bring back sensors worth a **** as well so you are not surprised by the whole team over a hill 200 meters away. But given the way sensors work and how easy for an aggressive player to be surprised by the entire 12 man its easy to die quick in this game and be sent back to the re-loading screen just to wait again for 5+ minutes for the next game and stompy march time getting back into range to shoot and have fun again.


That is why I say they should add an additional QP mode for respawns, give us options. 8v8 and 12v12. Where 8v8 has respawn mechanics. They could even make it a check mark like servers where you can queue for both or not so queue times are not adversely effected if you q for both.

See the problem i mentioned above.

There's also additional problems that will arise.

1. Tonnage limits
Are players allowed to bring whatever mechs they want? If yes, everyone will bring assaults. That makes for boring gameplay and assaults are expensive to purchase and optimize. That means newer players get shafted because they are the ones that need to acquire space bucks. Veteran players are already space rich. If there's a tonnage limit, there is no difference between your idea and fp. You might as well allow players to queue for both qp and fp at the same time. That is a far more elegant and effective solution.

2. Drop restrictions
Once you commit and drop with your 4 mechs, you can't drop in another match with any of those 4 mechs until the match is over. There are matches that will result in stomps. This happens because of the nature of the game - finite resources lead to snowballing. Players will be trapped in the match until the snowballing team decides to stop farming. The salt levels will be off the charts because now you're gonna be farmed 4x as long.

3. The previous mentioned point about bucket splitting. Players will be forced to wait even longer for matches because buckets will be split. Long wait times is a result of a small player base. Unless your idea somehow causes total player numbers to rise, it's only going to make the wait longer.

[Monkey Lover]

Turn this isnt 8 man cw? Ewwwh ...... agggg.. throw up a little there...


No thank you.

[adamts01]

Wil McCullough, on 24 January 2019 - 05:16 AM, said:

That means you'll be increasing the number of buckets.

Increasing the number of buckets will make it harder to, and cause it to take longer for players to find games. Not only will it not help, it'll make the problem that op outlined even worse.

It's not like CW, group que, or Solaris could be much worse. Rrspawns/tickets/whatever could replace CW and group qie at least. CW and group qie should be merged somehow anyway,.

[YueFei]

Wil McCullough, on 24 January 2019 - 05:16 AM, said:

That means you'll be increasing the number of buckets.

Increasing the number of buckets will make it harder to, and cause it to take longer for players to find games. Not only will it not help, it'll make the problem that op outlined even worse.

That's probably the biggest problem, and it may be too late now, but PGI really should've offered such a game mode early in the game's release, especially for the Steam release bringing in an influx of new players.

If we had enough population to support it, more additional game modes would not be a problem. Also, queueing systems already do exist in other games that allow players to queue up for multiple game modes, and choose to enter whichever one pops up first.

Short time-to-live is not necessarily a problem on its own. See CS:GO, where you die in seconds, but you quickly re-join the action in the next round.

Anyway, another possibility instead of introducing a new game mode that players queue for would be to allow a private match setting with infinite respawns, with the spawn locations being placed closer to the map center. Vets could use it for raw practice of base mechanics. You don't get paid in a private match anyway.

Not sure how to funnel a newb into that type of game mode unless there's a separate bucket for it. Maybe if PGI can make a decent AI, and newbs get to choose infinite respawn modes against AI or something.

[Grus]

El Bandito, on 23 January 2019 - 05:39 PM, said:

That's cause LL maps were huge. In small maps OP is suggesting people can spawn camp the base easily after smashing one side.

ARE huge servers still active.

Also, objectives are rewarding and have meaning. Unlike what we have in MWO. If we had the same quality of maps and rewarding objectives in MWO, you would see a shift in builds and mech choise big time.

[Nameless King]

Xulld, on 23 January 2019 - 03:12 PM, said:

The problem is how long it takes to get into a match and how long you end up shooting and basically engaging in combat vs. Rotating to stay alive and just marching across the map.

If there was a General Play option to run 8v8 on only small maps with 4 respawns this game would be 1000% more fun to play.

Just my two cents.

---

Also objectives are lame, at least make them realistic. Assault what? and why cannot we take it back? How about you loose respawns until you take it back? That would be fun and dynamic.

Dominate what? Why is the center of the map important? How about repair bays are there? That would again make it dynamic.

Nope, please stop trying to ruin the game with these horrible ideas.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Grus, on 25 January 2019 - 10:31 AM, said:

ARE huge servers still active.

Also, objectives are rewarding and have meaning. Unlike what we have in MWO. If we had the same quality of maps and rewarding objectives in MWO, you would see a shift in builds and mech choise big time.

Yeah as I have mentioned multiple times over the years, I really don't understand why PGI didn't model the game off of MW:LL instead of WoT. MW:LL, a fan mod, has much more depth and realism than a game PGI spent millions on, go figure.