30 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

Mkay, I gave everyone a pretty ridiculous amount of time for tweaking. I'm free tonight so I'm getting started.
There's been an additional contender.

Zoan, on 15 February 2019 - 10:32 AM, said:

This sounds like an interesting topic, though I am at work so my ability to look up weight values are pretty limited. As such, this is more of just throwing out an idea or two and see what may be useful.

With the drawbacks the mech has, I think a melee weapon and some sort of smoke projection (either smoke grenades, or a flamer-esque piece of equipment that can be used to project smoke to a location) would probably be the most effective. Anything with good enough sensors to target it through smoke is going to have enough guns to cut it apart due to the commercial armor. Anything without those optics (infantry, improvised armored vehicles, industrial mechs, etc) would be at a disadvantage. Smoke could be used to give it cover to close into a target, or to disengage/cover surrounding units.

Lets see what we can do.
On the surface the Zoan variant isn't going to be much different than the others so far. Smoke grenade or missile launcher (being an open air cockpit -- where the pilot's head is behind the faceplate when/if its down -- may present a problem), but between this and a few other mentions perhaps this is less of an easy modular loadout and more of a special change akin to the K-Guard or the Billy, potentially as a unique. I also want to avoid yet another version with yet another flamer. So no flamers.

So lets assume that every mech needs a hero/notable pilot with a unique design. Zoan might be in a custom-modified Asuka sporting a

Mele weapon:

(Pick the two most preferred out of the following melee weapons: Buzzsaw (4 tons), Chainsaw (5 tons), Hatchet (1 ton), Lance (3 tons), Mace (2 tons), Sword (2 tons). [There's other choices such as a wrecking ball but such would probably ruin any advantages smoke might provide]. Not going to give you a shield option so that this variant is unique. If the melee weapon is under 3 tons you can opt for 2 but that seriously limits your smoke dispensing options as well as deprives you of being able to climb buildings/walls unless one is dropped. Also no mech mortar if you carry 2 hacky-slashy-whackies.)

and a Smoke Dispensing weapon

(insert choice of smoke dispensing weapon here: Mech Mortar 1 (2 tons + 1 ton ammo giving 24 uses and really good range), SRM-2 (1 ton + 1 ton ammo provides 50 uses) SRM-2-OS (1.5 tons, single use), Vehicular Grenade Launcher (0.5 tons with ammo, single use per launcher but can carry more than one). Non-single use setups can have deadly results if the ammo is hit.)
....
while sporting Environmental Sealing and Advanced Fire Control Software or at least some sort of advanced sensor suite (for an industrial mech). The latter seems a bit unnecessary given the lack of projectile weapons mentioned for it, but is necessary for thermals and other sensor abilities.

This has led to the discovery of another factor that's been secretly affecting weight, as coming with a Basic Fire Control System adds 5% weight to all weapon systems equipped....stacked with the power amplifier, yep it adds up.

So Zoan's mech can be done one of two ways. The Advanced FCS for the sensors isn't gonna weigh much as aside from a smoke emitting system and a melee weapon, it has no other mention of weapons. Would probably up the engine to be able to take better advantage of the idea, given that it's a unique mech.

The other way would be construct its skeleton uniquely as a Battlemech, still with the commercial armor (sure there's better resistance to through armor crits with industrial or standard armor, but far fewer points of armor can be had). This automatically throws in environmental sealing and the advanced fire control system (and thus the advanced sensors). This also ups fuel consumption, but in turn saves weight.

So here's what you can work with.

For both mechs, the default is walkspeed 3, run speed 5 (6 if pushing the engine). It can be enhanced further with a super charger. 2 heatsinks installed. 1.5 tons of armor (that's 0.5 tons more than the base model and is on par with my SWAT variants). I'm considering the Mechanical Jump Booster with a Defective quirk, so as to give this mech a very unique flare in being able to jump without jumpjets...and that each jump has an increased chance of causing the system to fail. Combined with the Asuka's ability to climb, this means the pilot could pull off some interesting surprise attacks in the smoke.

Zoan's Asuka as just a modified (security mech) Asuka has:
No ejection system (as is standard with Asuka).
Environmental sealing.
No jump system.
2.5 tons free.
Cost: 676,346 cbills unequipped.


Zoan's Asuka as a rebuilt (as Battlemech) Asuka:
Broken Ejection System (this ensures that regardless of whether quirks are being used or not, there's no ejection possible, plus it eats weight).
Jump system (note it weighs nothing as its part of the legs.).
5.5 tons free.
Cost without equipment: 751,410 cbills.

Up to you which you wanna do. I'm inclined to recommend the battlemech option; as a unique mech you may as well go all out.

In the mean time, the other guys are having their designs tested in the field. Results either later tonight or tomorrow.

[Koniving]

(Side note if you go the buzzsaw or chainsaw option, you lose a hand. But for a 15 ton mech, since the weapon's strength doesn't seem to be affected by the weight of the mech, it's a nasty bit of damage for a mech of its size. Also given that it's unique, I'm assuming that this variant isn't in law enforcement).

[Koniving]

Quick note: It took me about 5 hours to set everything up. I didn't think it would take that long, but since my old Megamek with all the saved "civilian" compositions to quickly populate maps and subsequently the saved units such as "Crowd" 1 through 5, "traffic", in both grouped as well as individual civilian vehicles, etc... all had to be recreated from scratch. There's another couple of hours left of this, too, as AI tweaks can't exactly be saved and must be done uniquely to each map.. Between that and my wife playing FF 6 on my PC, I've had minor delays.

[Zoan]

Now that I have time to actually look this over again (Thanks Kon for the high level of detail!). The Battlemech re-build would be more effective for sure. However the over-hauled security version is probably a bit more "accurate" to the intent on this topic. Just going to throw loadout options for both here. The security re-build version seems like something that could be scraped together in short order using whatever leftover materials may have been around. I know there are more options listed here, but you give way to many ideas to try and pick one!

Asuka as a rebuilt (as Battlemech) Asuka:
Broken Ejection System (this ensures that regardless of whether quirks are being used or not, there's no ejection possible, plus it eats weight).
Jump system (note it weighs nothing as its part of the legs.).
5.5 tons free.
Cost without equipment: 751,410 cbills.
(Screw it fun version)
Buzzsaw (4t)
3 vehicle grenade launcher (1.5t)

(slightly more serious version)
Mech Mortar (2t+1t ammo)
Mace (2t) (while the sword may have more "theoretical" utility, the mace could be field-fabricated if needed from misc junk/spare parts)
1 vehicle grenade launcher (.5t)

Asuka as just a modified (security mech) Asuka has:
No ejection system (as is standard with Asuka).
Environmental sealing.
No jump system.
2.5 tons free.
Cost: 676,346 cbills unequipped.

Hatchet (1t)
SRM-2 OS (1.5t)

[Koniving]

Wish Megamek worked on android... Got my wife a Switch to get her OFF the computer and monitor.
.....She's playing the switch on the TV that I use as a monitor.

But will plug this all in tonight as well as get the results and post 'em.

[Koniving]

Not completely done, but the results so far have been fun. Will share soon.

In the meantime I worked on scale.

When seeing these, note that Battletech's scale and MWO's are...wildly different.
For example, when looking at scaled models of BT mechs...
Here we have a Jupiter (Clan assault mech) at 36 feet tall and 100 tons.


At 1/55 scale, that puts this guy at 7.8 inches or so tall? But in meters, that makes it 10.9 meters tall. Dire Wolf is 12.4 meters. Timber Wolf is 12.6 meters. (Note the Dire Wolf and Timber Wolf are to the tallest point, even including antennae, earpods, etc.)


Here we have a Forestry mech at 25 feet tall and 25 tons.


This thing would be 7.62 meters tall.

Now the tallest mech in BT until 3070+ is 14.4 meters tall, the Executioner (in MWO its over 19 meters tall, for comparison, the Goustaff custom Zaku in 08th MS team is 18.2 meters tall.. a Zaku in a Gundam series is shorter than MWO's Atlas while it would dwarf BT's Atlas...). According to Catalyst's new book, mechs range from 7 meters to 16 meters. (Though I know of some 6-ish meter references, one of which being the Firefly.)

Then there's other things, like the Spider.

Despite the common belief, it is rare that anything more than half the human torso actually appears in any cockpit and legs are often below the "glass." More often than not, its usually chest, shoulders and head that actually appears in any visual of the "glass." Some mechs actually have the pilot standing rather than sitting, and some have the pilot laying down.

Pilot inside a Dragon.


Griffin, Hatchetman, guy.


This said... Here's the scale I worked out.
Average male height taken from here.


Now, I know these heights mean nothing as we're so acclimated to MWO, so here we are but with MWO heights.


And for Urbie enthusiasts..

I wanted to do it as one long image, but since it fits the scale into a window, everything shrinks to make sure the biggest one fits.. Frustrating.

And in looking for models of mechs, I found the scale of the Destroid Tomahawk (Warhammer). But that clearly isn't what BT used as it'd tower over the Atlas, so I found the schematic of the Warhammer which has a scale ruler and a female figure standing, and as per that pose, 5 feet tall.


Destroid Tomahawk is scaled out to 13.80 meters tall. The BT version is 10.58 meters tall. MWO's rescaled Hunchback is there on the right at 13 meters. The pre-rescale MWO Hunchback was 13.6 meters and you m
Anyway, figured some of you might enjoy this.

Btw Zoan, the Buzzsaw joke build... was perhaps the deadliest Asuka ever built. Used one as a sort of jumpscare in the training course. ....No one survived it.

Edited by Koniving, 24 February 2019 - 02:34 AM.

[Koniving]

Apparently while working on refits...

"
Kell Hounds Disband

(3015-07-13)
Tharkad [TBC] - The Kell Hounds are known throughout the Lyran Commonwealth as an elite mercenary regiment, led by the legendary brothers Morgan and Patrick Kell. However, today that has changed. Reports indicate that nearly two-thirds of the Hounds have disbanded and are seeking work with other commands, apparently at the request of Colonel Morgan Kell, who has himself gone into exile. There is no explanation from the Hounds and Colonel Patrick Kell declined to comment when TBC asked what caused the collapse of the Kell Hounds."

Sadly, without the weapons already being equipped, I cannot set the weapons to be modular/jettison capable. So a small snag was hit.

So for the first test I mentioned, instead of seeing how quickly they can be equipped as if they were modular, we'll see instead how quickly they are equipped if these setups had to be permanently installed.

These are being performed as Refit kits, which significantly cuts down the time to make it happen.
Alright:
So converting to each mech. Each starts as an Asuka Base (no equipment, 5.5 tons free.) Note: All parts required for each modification is already in my warehouse. After getting half way through, I decided nope, screw it there isn't much point unless I gotta get the stuff.

Asuka Base

Value: 661,821 C-bills
Small notes:
Salary of (Elite Tech) Chief Seitero: 3,072 cbills/week. (Able to dedicate 420 minutes per shift.)
Salary of (Regular Tech) Shigeo: 800 cbills/week. (Able to dedicate 450 minutes per shift.)

Salary of a Veteran Mechwarrior, 2,880 cbills/week
Salary of a Regular Mechwarrior, 1,500 cbills/week
---------

Note: All mention of "Days" under "Done in X days" is referring to shifts...

6th Mess and Bombast are done at the same time.

6th Mess. Class D refit kit warning. Refit kit cost - Free.
Time estimated: 3,390 minutes.
Takes nine days (regular shifts) for Cheif Seitaro (Elite Mech Tech) and 6 astechs to complete this task with all parts in inventory. No problems.
Cost of equipment (not including manpower or the kit)
66,550

Bombast. Class D refit kit warning. (Finding this refit kit is listed as impossible, once I figured out what was going on it worked.)
Refit kit cost - 1,100 cbills
Time estimate: 1,800 minutes.
Done in 5 days by Shigeo (Regular Mech Tech) and 6 astechs. Flamer ammo bin not filled despite having 7 tons worth of ammo on hand? Fixed.
Cost of equipment (not including manpower or the kit)
15,950

Most of the shipment took either 2 or 9 days.
All equipment was "C" quality. (Be adviced, I have it so that A is best condition and F is worst, where in TT's books, F is best and A is worst)


Both Jos performed at the same time. Note all time taken to make modifications are done once all parts are secured.

Jo8404. Class D refit kit warning.
Refit kit cost - 1,100 cbills.
Time estimate: 2940.
Done in 7 days by Shigeo. No problems.
Cost of equipment (not including manpower or the kit)
47,850

(Every one of these is a class D refit...)
Jo8883
Refit kit cost - 1,100 cbills
Time Estimate: 3390 by Chief Seitero
Done in 7 days and 30 minutes...or he would've been, but the roll failed by 1. Some Astechs installed something wrong, all their work must be undone to fix it, an additional 3390 is required. 14 days and 60 minutes later... its done, no permenant problems.
Cost of equipment (not including manpower or the kit)
70,400

This time equipment took 4 to 8 days to arrive.
---------
MBRiot and BillyClub done at the same time.

MBRiot
For some reason despite having 17 of both "Shield (Small)" and "Shield (Small)"... I still have to procure a Shield (Small) to do the refit...? (This is when I decided screw it, start over and sell the warehouse)
Refit cost - 1,700
Time Estimate: 1440 minutes
Done in 2 days and 2 hours by Chief Seitero. No issues
Cost of equipment (not including manpower or the kit)
105,050
(Has the second highest BV of the non-Zoan builds.)

BillyClub
Refit cost - 1,900
Time Estimate: 1775 minutes.
Done in 4 days by Shigeo. No issues.
Cost of equipment (not including manpower or the kit)
80,850
(Note: This has the highest battle value of all the non-Zoan builds)

K-Guard
Refit cost - 1,250
Time Estimate: 1710 minutes.
Done in 3 days 4 hours and 30 minutes by Chief Seitero. No issues.
Cost of equipment (not including manpower or the kit)
390,225.
Parts arrived in 2 days (not factored in time worked on it)

Mortar
Refit cost - 1,100
Time Estimate: 1710 minutes.
Done in 4 days.... or not. An accident occurred, 3 astechs died (mishandling ammunition (mortar)). An additional 1920 minutes required to finish the work. In an additional 5 days the work is done. Insurance premiums went up.
Cost of equipment (not including manpower or the kit)
82,500.
Parts took 6 days to arrive.
--------

Rescue and Swat1

Rescue
Refit cost - 3,020?!?!?!?!!?!!!
Time Estimate: 3060 minutes.
Done in 6 days 6 hours. No problems.
Cost of equipment (not including manpower or the kit)
106,920.
Parts took 3 days to arrive.

Swat1
Refit cost - 1,900
Time Estimate: 1890 minutes.
Done in 4 days and 30 minutes.
Cost of equipment (not including manpower or the kit)
50,325.
Parts took 10 days to arrive. It was then delayed in shipping by another 15 days...

Swat 2 and Swat 3

Swat2
Refit cost - 1,200
Time Estimate: 2610 minutes.
Done in 4 days and 210 minutes by Seitero or would have been. "Something was botched" and will take an additional 1025 minutes to resolve. 2 days and 7 hours more it's done and good.
Cost of equipment (not including manpower or the kit)
58,300.
Parts took 2 days to arrive.

Swat3
Refit cost - 1,400
Time Estimate: 2250 minutes.
Done in 3 days and 3 hours and 10 minutes by Shigeo. No problems.
Cost of equipment (not including manpower or the kit)
67,650
Parts took six days to arrive.
(Third highest BV of the non-Zoan variants)

All parts taking under 17 days are being secured on the same planet, as it takes at least 17 days to reach the nearest jump point, and would take even longer to go from the other end of that jumppoint to any planet that'd be selling stuff. (The "fold" between jump points is a minute or less.)

Zoan's builds will have to wait.
See you tomorrow!

[Koniving]

Location, Nirasaki. Date: July 11th, 3015.

(White is Comstar / Neutral. This specific white planet is Terra [Earth]. Blue lines and dotted lines is the HPG network in the area.)
Briefing. (Note: Surnames first, given names second).

Edited by Koniving, 03 March 2019 - 12:58 AM.

[Koniving]

So.. I mentioned the Shugosha in my last post within the mission briefing, which is a 20 ton mech based on the Patron, which is a 15 ton mech. Thought I had a great idea of what could basically show that the Asuka for all its good ideas....is still a laughing stock. Sure, it's 20 tons, but being based on a 15 tonner it should still be fairly small right?

The Patron has a lift hoist on the right shoulder, and I guess its alright (but that bugged me, too... its only one though but the Shugosha has two each on a shoulder rather than using them to enhance the strength of the arms and that really frustrates me, since lift hoists can also be akin to a fork-lift and when mounted on the arms is actually a way of significantly enhancing the carry strength of the arms).

But as I was rubbing my head over that (as the Shugosha, had they put it into the arms like the Buster and the Powerman, could basically pick up and THROW the Asuka...) I've found that the image...had something biting and pinching at me even more.

Why...are the people so small...?

So assuming the guy standing tall is 5'9" and that the Shugosha isn't 'that far away'... I went to check its scale. And since the art is actually the Patron and not the Shugosha....

I came out to...
9.420255 Meters.

This means that this specific tall, scrawny 15 ton loader mech... almost towers as tall as the 55 ton Shadowhawk 2-series...



That's pretty damn tall. Now given the Patron's history, I could understand in a way. It's a cheap helper mech that needs to be tall for its intended purpose. It was built specifically take ammo off of trucks and load it into the Icarus II in the field. Its entire existence revolves around it. Were it made as small as it could be then it'd have trouble reaching where it would need to. (It could have been made pretty small considering that the Powerman is a 35 ton mech only slightly over 2/3rds that height if even)

It says on Sarna that it uses its hands to pick up ammunition, given its height and lack of Asuka-style monkey arms I think its better off using the hoist to get it off the ground, securing it into the hands and playing the bin shuffle game from there rather than bending over to pick it up (I'm afraid of this scrawny giant falling over).

All said and done, some extreme examples of arming it which initially seemed really outlandish at first...just don't seem as far fetched given its towering height. Loadouts such as 5 RL-10s (on one torso) and 4 LMGs... That's 50 rockets on a 15 ton mech! Holy crap! Its size, though, would allow for the room to do that.

Anyway, this sort issue causes a small problem with my story for the Shugosha against the Asuka, as its a variant of the Patron, and as such it is also 9+ meters tall. Which sucks, considering the Shugosha would've otherwise been perfect.

Maybe it'll get humiliated by a Harvester Ant... but that'd be weird to find in a city. And against something like a Powerman its clearly outmatched despite the similar size to the Asuka at only around 6 meters tall... as the Powerman can lift its own weight of 35 tons.
Whatever the case... it's terrifying to think that these Patrons have been put on the front lines in more than one battle...

[Koniving]

Due to a hard drive failure the weekend before last, this is on a temporary hold til this weekend. The phrase "God does not play dice" can also be said for Hard Drives. My wife through a die toward the table my computer sits on. It hit the hard drive and it instantly failed.

Its the drive my megamek was on.

[Koniving]

So yeah this is still basically on pause due to losing that hard drive, slight motivation stump, work on the Mw5 mod pre-production, etc.. But as some physical models are coming in I'll be getting back into this.

In the meantime during my weapons research for the MW5 mod, I saw the Pancor Jackhammer, a gun I fell in love with as a kid in Fallout 2.
So, naturally I watched it...and I came to notice something...
Before watching it, please listen to this refresher to the story of the Asuka.. my obscure security mech that ultimately becomes a flop of what should have been of great innovation was marred by using a cheap pair of prototypes to showcase its potential...only for it to be rejected and for the company to never actually build a fully working model of the original intention. But its prototypes became popular among the non-military community.

Now listen to the story of the REAL Pancor Jackhammer...

Two samples are made for military testing. It ultimately is rejected. The guy that made them ran out of money... and through some licensing (by another guy that bought the only remaining example) it became popular in the non-military community...