37 replies to this topic

[Kubernetes]

Nightbird, on 05 February 2019 - 12:33 PM, said:

Good thing stealth mechs are laughably bad anyways and contribute little to the team :shrug: balanced

Bro, my Grinner loves the stealth!

Edited by Kubernetes, 05 February 2019 - 02:12 PM.

[JediPanther]

As a light pilot who learned how to run lights when only the jenner was the light mech in the game ecm is such a crutch. Remove it now and a lot of so-called light pilots would really suck.

[RickySpanish]

JediPanther, on 05 February 2019 - 03:29 PM, said:

As a light pilot who learned how to run lights when only the jenner was the light mech in the game ecm is such a crutch. Remove it now and a lot of so-called light pilots would really suck.

To be fair, back in the day the 6 medium laser Jenner was absurdly good, it was hardly a challenge to pilot. Now when the Locust came out, those pilots I have respect for. Even moreso to the pilots that only bought the Phoenix pack Locust tier. Ouch!

[KrazedOmega]

Nightbird, on 05 February 2019 - 01:44 PM, said:

Yep, that's what makes stealth mechs useless... pilots tend to think they're invisible and get one shot by direct fire weapons.

Stealth useless? lol...

[GeminiWolf]

What im hearing is "LURMBOATer upset, me auto hit no work"

[Angel of Annihilation]

Brizna, on 05 February 2019 - 12:38 PM, said:

Maybe this implementation is not bugged but it does look a bit OP to me. ECM bubble should be easily counterable or simply don't exist (*). Low signal is a very serious penalty to any mech under its influence, having PPCs or Narc as counters is too situational and unreliable.

EDIT (*) I meant: not exist when STEALTH ARMOUR is activated, sorry.

I have to agree with this. My understanding of what Stealth Armor should be is a armor that "contains" or locks in all electrical and magnetic signals that would normally be emitted by a mech not equipped with Stealth armor effectively making the mech disappear from all sensors except seismic or visual. Since it is locking in all electrical signals, that would mean any emitted ECM signals as well because the second ANYTHING electrical, radio or otherwise, is emitted, it would be detectable and completely defeat the purpose of stealth in the first place. I mean you might not be able to see him with electronic sensors but you would see his ECM signal and KNOW a enemy mech was operating near you. Having the ECM bubble still emit from a stealth armor equipped mech does not compute, not in the slightest.

Also I don't understand the PPC thing in regards to it countering Stealth Armor. PPC's disrupt electrical signals but stealth armor is a plating, It isn't electrical in nature so why the hell would getting hit by a PPC disrupt the stealth armor?

So while I think ECM should be a prerequisite for equipping stealth armor, the protective ECM bubble should 100% disappear the second stealth armor is activated because stealth armor is preventing electrical signals from being emitted from the mech which SHOULD include the disruptive signals emitted from active ECM usage. Also PPC shouldn't do anything to the stealth equipped mech, nor should UAVs or any other electronic sensor be able to detect the stealth armor equipped mech when it is active.

This is how it should work anyway. The way PGI has it in game is just silly beyond belief.

Edited by Angel of Annihilation, 05 February 2019 - 07:16 PM.

[Dee Eight]

GeminiWolf, on 05 February 2019 - 06:43 PM, said:

What im hearing is "LURMBOATer upset, me auto hit no work"

streaks actually...close range... hence the whole i was under my uav, the enemy was under my uav... pay attention and actually read what's written maybe ?!

[GeminiWolf]

Dee Eight, on 05 February 2019 - 07:15 PM, said:

streaks actually...close range... hence the whole i was under my uav, the enemy was under my uav... pay attention and actually read what's written maybe ?!

Not you Dee Eight, was referring to others who responded in your posts... I know you aren't a LURMBOATER

[JediPanther]

RickySpanish, on 05 February 2019 - 05:14 PM, said:

To be fair, back in the day the 6 medium laser Jenner was absurdly good, it was hardly a challenge to pilot. Now when the Locust came out, those pilots I have respect for. Even moreso to the pilots that only bought the Phoenix pack Locust tier. Ouch!

All the jenners were great until the rescale of oblivion hit them all then they got that 14 armor max bs of the F plus all the other nerfs to mobility,smls,spls etc. I did the phoenix package just below the battlemaster. I developed a very abusive relation ship with that lct-1v(p) some times I'd go great with it and other times I was dead under a minute. I have all the locuts now and got first ace of spades with the 1e.

I was a terror in the jenner for the longest time that and the cptl c1 were the only mechs i'd run switching between them. people that use to play often would ask if I was lrming with the cat or rambo-ing them that match. I've also ran 3ls in various builds and roles; one of my favorite being the 3ml narc-er. The 4x also has a soft spot as one of my first lights I shoved an ac 20 on and ran around at 90-100..

[KhanBhacKeD]

So to resume the issue is :

-You have your uav above you
-you have an ecm in counter mode

- When the ennemy commando hug you, you can't lock (of course cause of ecm bubble) but the no signal don't show up that's it? So everything is actually applied as stated except your hud information. For low signal.

So if I'm not wrong we have to do 3 test, and we need 3 people to try reproduce it Plz

Edited by KhanBhacKeD, 05 February 2019 - 10:59 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Chris Lowrey, on 05 February 2019 - 12:16 PM, said:

Just to reiterate, Stealth Armor is currently treated as a separate piece of equipment that requires an active ECM in order function. But past that, activating stealth armor does not deactivate ECM, and the 'Mech that is actively using stealth would still emit an ECM bubble that would provide standard ECM bubble benefits to team mates, while also condoning standard ECM / Low-signal drawbacks to enemy 'Mechs within the ECM bubble. Active stealth armor makes the equipped 'Mech immune to various "auto detect" methods like BAP / UAV, but is still countered by PPC's / NARC beacons, while TAG allows you to target them (but will not counter the stealth, or the ECM.) Stealth benefits are only given to the 'Mech actively using stealth armor. Anyone else in the ECM bubble would only receive standard ECM benefits.

Chris why is it i can counter the stealth with my tag but then my bap doesn't counter the ecm? I should be able to lock onto a stealth mech within any range of the bap, if i have both tag + bap.

[Curccu]

Kiran Yagami, on 05 February 2019 - 12:26 PM, said:

The only way to cancel the ECM on stealth mechs is with PPCs, which almost certainly has to be an ERPPC because they're likely way too close for minimum range on any other PPC. That destroys pretty much all lock-on IS mechs, since IS ERPPCs are both extremely heavy and ridiculously hot. Good luck fitting that in your build.

We have this thing called Snub-nose PPC, It's like they are designed to be used at short ranges...

Nightbird, on 05 February 2019 - 12:35 PM, said:

narc ravens don't need stealth

Personally I find my COM-2D narcer with stealth armor staying alive a lot longer than my clan narcers (MLX/ACH both with ECM).
There is no reason to start playing mech stupidly thinking you cannot be hurt if you have stealth armor, it's just extra protection.

KhanBhacKeD, on 05 February 2019 - 10:56 PM, said:

So to resume the issue is :

-You have your uav above you
-you have an ecm in counter mode

- When the ennemy commando hug you, you can't lock (of course cause of ecm bubble) but the no signal don't show up that's it? So everything is actually applied as stated except your hud information. For low signal.

So if I'm not wrong we have to do 3 test, and we need 3 people to try reproduce it Plz

Low signal shows up with stealth mechs.

[Maddermax]

About a month and a half ago, I was playing in my Streak arctic wolf, when I experienced an inability to lock a stealth flea despite Counter ECM active and Tag on the target. Or rather, I could only get a lock when the target was over 120m away - so out of ECM range. I simply could not lock him whenever he was close. ECM was definitely set to counter, there were no other enemies with ECM (he was last enemy), and over a minute or more, I got out precisely one burst. I don't think he realized my dilemma, or he would have simply killed me, but playing cat and mouse, I should have had several excellent chances to kill him, but simply could not get a lock with TAG when he was close.

It was the last enemy on the team, and eventually the rest of my team (who had finished off the enemies on the other side of Solaris city) trickled in and killed him with direct fire, but it was a frustrating experience, and it's why I always take a mixed SRM/SSRM load out now. Wish I'd gotten it on camera, but I only remember to turn on Instant Replay occasionally.

[KhanBhacKeD]

@curccu I resume the situation dee eight explain to us and complaining about.

I know low signal normally show up when you are near Stealth mech.

But maybe on that specific conditions he described to us a bug can exist.

[Chris Lowrey]

Monkey Lover, on 05 February 2019 - 11:35 PM, said:

Chris why is it i can counter the stealth with my tag but then my bap doesn't counter the ecm? I should be able to lock onto a stealth mech within any range of the bap, if i have both tag + bap.

TAG does not counter stealth, it allows you to target anything put into a TAGed state so it can "pierce" the stealth and ECM to aquire a target lock, but it does not render them non-functional. So ECM will still provide it's bubble effects to friendlies, and put you into a low signal state in close range.

As to BAP and ECM? Stealth in the lore by design was made explicitly to be unaffected by those systems which is something we carried over into the UAV's and it is a requirement of stealth to have an active ECM. Having the ECM countered by the bubble effects would counter the Stealth armor since an active ECM system is a requirement of putting yourself into a Stealth State. Because Stealth Armor pays a heavy toll in order to keep itself in stealth, we have kept this functionality in the current game If all of that was negated by low tonnage perpetual bubbles or 0 ton 0 crit UAV's, it would effectively make the system useless in the game when all you would need to do is make sure you reserve enough for a BAP or equip a UAV to completely hard counter it.

We allow anti-ECM effects that require skill shots to still work against them, because it takes effort to actively target them while in stealth and doesn't just simply negate the primary benefits of the stealth armor, and it allows for counter-play against the stealth armor itself when you are actively attempting to knock it out on stealth, and not lean on bubble effects to do the heavy lifting.

[Phyrce]

Can we stop calling everything we disagree with an exploit?

[Maddermax]

Chris Lowrey, on 06 February 2019 - 09:42 AM, said:

TAG does not counter stealth, it allows you to target anything put into a TAGed state so it can "pierce" the stealth and ECM to aquire a target lock, but it does not render them non-functional. So ECM will still provide it's bubble effects to friendlies, and put you into a low signal state in close range.

As to BAP and ECM? Stealth in the lore by design was made explicitly to be unaffected by those systems which is something we carried over into the UAV's and it is a requirement of stealth to have an active ECM. Having the ECM countered by the bubble effects would counter the Stealth armor since an active ECM system is a requirement of putting yourself into a Stealth State. Because Stealth Armor pays a heavy toll in order to keep itself in stealth, we have kept this functionality in the current game If all of that was negated by low tonnage perpetual bubbles or 0 ton 0 crit UAV's, it would effectively make the system useless in the game when all you would need to do is make sure you reserve enough for a BAP or equip a UAV to completely hard counter it.

We allow anti-ECM effects that require skill shots to still work against them, because it takes effort to actively target them while in stealth and doesn't just simply negate the primary benefits of the stealth armor, and it allows for counter-play against the stealth armor itself when you are actively attempting to knock it out on stealth, and not lean on bubble effects to do the heavy lifting.

So, ECM on stealth mechs is supposed to be un-counterable (except by PPCs).

Generally, I've not a problem with this, and I run a few stealth mechs, but it does make Streak-SRM carriers basically useless in some games, as they can't even dumb-fire.

[Mister Maf]

Angel of Annihilation, on 05 February 2019 - 07:15 PM, said:

I have to agree with this. My understanding of what Stealth Armor should be is a armor that "contains" or locks in all electrical and magnetic signals that would normally be emitted by a mech not equipped with Stealth armor effectively making the mech disappear from all sensors except seismic or visual. Since it is locking in all electrical signals, that would mean any emitted ECM signals as well because the second ANYTHING electrical, radio or otherwise, is emitted, it would be detectable and completely defeat the purpose of stealth in the first place. I mean you might not be able to see him with electronic sensors but you would see his ECM signal and KNOW a enemy mech was operating near you. Having the ECM bubble still emit from a stealth armor equipped mech does not compute, not in the slightest.

Also I don't understand the PPC thing in regards to it countering Stealth Armor. PPC's disrupt electrical signals but stealth armor is a plating, It isn't electrical in nature so why the hell would getting hit by a PPC disrupt the stealth armor?

So while I think ECM should be a prerequisite for equipping stealth armor, the protective ECM bubble should 100% disappear the second stealth armor is activated because stealth armor is preventing electrical signals from being emitted from the mech which SHOULD include the disruptive signals emitted from active ECM usage. Also PPC shouldn't do anything to the stealth equipped mech, nor should UAVs or any other electronic sensor be able to detect the stealth armor equipped mech when it is active.

This is how it should work anyway. The way PGI has it in game is just silly beyond belief.

I mean, if you really wanted to get realistic — ECM, which works by emitting massive amounts of junk electromagnetic signals to confuse sensors, should light up the ECM mech like a Christmas tree as an unidentified signal, and drown out everything else. Just one of many, many things that don't work the way they do in real life both in MWO in particular as well as BattleTech in general.

As for the UAV thing, that does sound like an actual issue that needs addressing.