332 replies to this topic

[Draelren]

Just want to know what everyone's opinion is on sniping and how prolific it was in MW4. It ruins the fun for me. I don't care if I'm up against an assault mech in my medium or not, as long as I can close and brawl. But if 5 snipers take you to critical before you're within 800 meters, it kinda becomes an annoying tactic.

Vote!

Edited by Draelren, 26 December 2011 - 06:47 PM.

[TheCrovax]

Of course is sniping a valid tactic and should be available in the game. I don't see why not, having only close range brawls gets boring just as well.

[AlienInvader]

As long as the maps are well-designed, sniping should be ok.

[Rob Tallos]

Sniping is essential for Battletech long range mechs to be of any use. That is one of the ways the Clans moved so fast, longer range and more accuracy.

Nothing worse than a bunch of Hunchbacks slogging it out by themselves in the centre of the board. The ranged mechs add flavour!

[verybad]

The "Sniping is dishonorable, quiaff" Made me laugh. Considering allmost all clan weapons outrange their IS counterparts...Clan mechwarriors don't avoid it, they simply find more than one mech attacking a single one to be dishonorable.

It's ridiculous o even think about avoiding sniping, sniping is as natural as can be in any form of combat. It comes up naturally, and tanks use a form of it by going hulldown near ridges.

Would "avoiding sniping" mean you avoid cover? Because sniping jist means you're minimizing your chances of damage while enhancing your chance of causing damage.

If my targets wish to avoid sniping, they can do so all they wish. Use of cover is part of the fun of the game, if you wish to walk out into the middle of an open field and walk ten paces apart then fire your pistols autocannons...well you're gonna get sniped...

Even if the OP dislikes it, it won't be their cojce, because the only way to remove sniping, or forms of it, would be to remove cover, remove different ranged weapons, and remove fun. The game will have sniping.

Edited by verybad, 26 December 2011 - 01:51 PM.

[Draelren]

A part of zellbrigen even states that you cannot use your superior range as a clanner and just back up, you fire and close to a brawling range. That may not be what happens in games, but it is how I play online. I follow zellbrigen as closely as possible.

[verybad]

I am a warrior of the Draconis Combine, I don't even know what this "Zellbrigen" is. Your dried out head will make an excellent paperweight for me to give to my lord however.

Theoretically Zellbrigen could be put into the game, with clan warriros getting mroe XPs from fights in which zellbrigen, at least some form of it, were observed.

I'll believe it when I see it however.

I never read that zellbrigen included the range thing, where does it say that in the Btech rulebooks?

Edited by verybad, 26 December 2011 - 01:57 PM.

[WMC Gomez]

There is nothing wrong with sniping. There is a reason that weapon systems have a maximum effective range. Besides, if this really is going to be a 12 v 12 match, no one will be able to sit there and snipe with ac 2's or large lasers and i have a feeling the maps will be set up in a way that terrain will have a factor in the combat as well.

[Threat Doc]

As long as there is effective cover to drop behind, I don't mind sniping. MW4 is where it became untenable because there was never enough substantial cover, and thus the only way to avoid it was to run in where angels fear to tread and take care of it, or stay out of range until the jump-snipin' ninny's came out from cover and fought like people. Jump sniping is for cowardly snakes who are too dishonorable to fight up-front.

Yeah, I'm lookin' at you verybad! Coward's tactic. (spits on the ground near your snake-oil boots)

[Spacewolflord]

So you are saying Kay that a Mad Cat with 4 Clan ER Large Lasers and two LRM-10s, with two medium Pulse Lasers, is a bad thing? It was great controlling the battle from afar and sending my Lance Mates to kill priority targets in MW 3&4.

[stun]

Kay Wolf, on 26 December 2011 - 02:11 PM, said:

Jump sniping is for cowardly snakes who are too dishonorable to fight up-front.

easy there...

People pay good money for mw games, they will play them however they want. If a map is clearly tailored for long distance fighting why would someone rush the other team off open space? You mention providing better cover in maps, that turns them into close combat maps. Cover/objects/terrain is the factor that actually makes a map long or short range fighting.

[GaussDragon]

I used sniping in heat games and in Vengeance, I used pulse lasers in Mercs NHUA. I use what works, and it worked, so I used it all the time. I play to win. I'll still own you all sniping or not

[Brakkyn]

People can and will play however they want...but the more prevalent one tactic becomes, the more boring it becomes, and the more pointless it becomes, and will inevitably drag the game downwards if matches become nothing but sniper versus sniper.

[TekFan]

Wasn't there even a note in the Clan Pack Extension of one of the MW4-titles about the Kodiak?
About the Kodiak being something special, since having close-combat-claws, which is dishonorable for clan-mechwarriors?

To be honest: I don't care for sniping as a mechanic. The weapons should be integrated into the game as they were in the universe, if they are fit for sniping, so be it.
The gauss-canon has long range, is pretty precise and does a hell of a punch.
LRM are heavy and take some time for a lock on, but they are (L)ong ®ange (M)issiles after all.
If someone hates sniping, stick to urban warfare.
If someone hates close combat, stick to wide plaines.

If the weapons and mechs are true to the battletech-universe, the rest will unfold on itself.

[Raeven]

The main reason sniping was prominent in MW4 was because they gimped the medium and short range weapons to the point of uselessness.

So, no reason to get within medium range, because you can do the same damage from farther away and stay out of the range of the heavier AC's that have no backup weapons.

[Karn Evil]

If sniping becomes a widely-favored tactic, I'll take the natural extension of that and, as Kay Wolf said, "run in where angels fear to tread" to work as a sniper-hunter. Decent speed, ECM, maybe a long-range ballistic weapon to mess with a sniper if they spot me in the open, and a healthy mix of SRMs and ballistics to bite their heads off once I'm close enough.

[Glory in the Highest]

Draelren, on 26 December 2011 - 01:51 PM, said:

A part of zellbrigen even states that you cannot use your superior range as a clanner and just back up, you fire and close to a brawling range. That may not be what happens in games, but it is how I play online. I follow zellbrigen as closely as possible.

Respectfully, I have to say, you can't expect other people to play by your rules. The only rules in a game are what the game itself (and league or tournament) defines. Any other rules are imaginary, and they hinder you.

Sniping wasn't the only way to win in MW4, there were many situations where a rush was warranted. I wish people would give the game a little bit of credit. Sure, the best teams learned how to master the terrain - often this led to ranged attacks. Obliterating your enemy before he can even touch you is quite wise.

In my humble opinion, players should learn from defeat and improve instead of seek to change the rules to make themselves feel successful.

If a player refuses to choose the most effective weapons or tactics, he can rest assured that I will not hesitate to. He can call me a coward, call me dishonorable, or more realistically, call me nothing because he'll be dead.

Edited by glory, 26 December 2011 - 03:14 PM.

[Threat Doc]

Spacewolflord, on 26 December 2011 - 02:20 PM, said:

So you are saying Kay that a Mad Cat with 4 Clan ER Large Lasers and two LRM-10s, with two medium Pulse Lasers, is a bad thing? It was great controlling the battle from afar and sending my Lance Mates to kill priority targets in MW 3&4.

Don't put words in my mouth. That's not what I said at all. Do you understand what sniping is? It's not JUST the use of long-range weapons; hell, I LOVE long-range weapons! Sniping is when you're standing behind a hilltop, and you either move to the top, aim and fire, then back down, or you jump up like some toddler in a bouncy chair, fire, and drop back down. Sniping is what takes place from a secure location where you're likely to take a whole lot less damage than anyone else. If it's a relatively open field and, even though you have long range weapons, you present yourself for a fight, then you're good to go. You're not presenting yourself for a fight if you're popping up and down on a pogo stick throwin' rocks. Cowards.

stun, on 26 December 2011 - 02:24 PM, said:

People pay good money for mw games, they will play them however they want. If a map is clearly tailored for long distance fighting why would someone rush the other team off open space? You mention providing better cover in maps, that turns them into close combat maps. Cover/objects/terrain is the factor that actually makes a map long or short range fighting.

Precisely, and I agree with you, except for what you said about paying to play this game, because it's going to be F2P. Tactics are a good thing, as long as they're tactics requiring brains, or at least bravado and, preferably, team work to make them feasible. Standing behind a ridgeline, jumping/moving up and firing, and then backing down into position is for cowards. I will have at least one team to deal with this, and we will train for sniper hunting.

What I'm hoping for is that the devs will develop the game such that sniping will actually have little consequence, or will be almost wholly ineffective. That would be very good.

Edited by Kay Wolf, 26 December 2011 - 03:12 PM.

[Draelren]

verybad, on 26 December 2011 - 01:56 PM, said:

I never read that zellbrigen included the range thing

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Zellbrigen

"Moving out of weapon range is prohibited", from

• Total Warfare, p. 275

[Glory in the Highest]

Kay Wolf, on 26 December 2011 - 03:11 PM, said:

Jump sniping is for cowardly snakes who are too dishonorable to fight up-front.

...

Cowards.

...

...Brainless...

Standing behind a ridgeline, jumping/moving up and firing, and then backing down into position is for cowards.

Why would anyone ever willingly give up the upper hand simply to appease his or her enemy? Why would anyone ever say "Gosh, I could kill this guy right now but ... I'ma pull this punch because he'll be mad at me unless I let him hit me once. He'll feel good about himself that way."

Every opponent deserves the absolute best play you can offer - you owe that to him. If, hypothetically, you knew I was pulling punches simply to make you happy, would you not be insulted?

Let's not forget, we're talking about a video game here, where roleplay does not automatically apply - or at least, it probably won't. Choosing or not choosing to live by your roleplay within the game can largely affect your success.

Now, I have no problem with people who choose to play within their self-defined boundaries of "honor", but I draw the line at those people expecting others to dance to the same tune. I draw the line at people getting angry at players who are more successful, because that's what this really boils down to. People are angry because they died many, many times without being able to get a shot off. And it's their own fault they didn't change their tactics. If you take a step back and look at it objectively, you have to wonder who the cowards/"brainless" ones really are.

Edited by glory, 26 December 2011 - 03:50 PM.