28 replies to this topic

[ACH75]

suggested mod is aimed to get more funny build fully functional, more customization options, more variety more fun...

side torso loss heat spike penalty sounds totally exaggerated to me... it's not a penalty it's just a death sentence

[R Valentine]

ACH75, on 19 February 2019 - 07:39 AM, said:

suggested mod is aimed to get more funny build fully functional, more customization options, more variety more fun...

side torso loss heat spike penalty sounds totally exaggerated to me... it's not a penalty it's just a death sentence

That's the point. The cXL engine having been so over-powered for years now with the community totally unwilling to make any concessions on ISXL, IS endo and ferro, so PGI comes up with dumb stuff that no one wants to nerf the cXL. You reap what you sew. Now you too can know the wonders of dying when you lose a side torso using an XL engine.

[Angel of Annihilation]

No. Why? Because we have semi-decent balance as is. People forget that the Clan's pay huge price for their lighter and smaller weapons, DHS, Endo and Ferro. They pay in heat...excessive, massive heat.

For example take a cER LL. It produces 11.8 heat vs. an IS ER LL producing 8.75 heat. That is a 34.86% increase in heat. In order to deal with that heat, the Clan mech will have to mount at least 1 additional DHS over what would be required on the IS mech. The weight plus crit space requirement of the cER LL now becomes 5 tons and 3 critical spaces vs the IS being 5 tons and 2 critical spaces for the same heat efficiency.

Another example, the MPL. Clan and IS MPLs take up the same space and weight but Clan MPLs are 4.75 heat vs IS MPLs are 3.8 heat. That is a 25% difference. Same thing applies as with the cER LL, the Clan MPL is likely going to require an extra DHS to achieve the same DPS rate as the IS MPL meaning now the Clan MPL's requirement goes to 3 tons and 3 crits vs the IS a 2 tons and 1 crit.

The point I am making is that when you look at the Clan mech build as a whole, not just at the fact that Clan DHS only use 2 critical slot, then you realized that Clan mechs require more heat sinks than IS mechs for about the same DPS output. Each one of those extra DHS means that the Clan mech has to use up 1 ton and 2 crits for that extra DHS. It doesn't take long for that extra ton and 2 crit slots to eat up the that weight saving on clan weapons and the critical slot saving they have due to the 7 slot Endo and FF. I really wish people would actually know and understand this prior to trying to make an argument that IS mechs deserve more engine heat sink slots or things like that.

Also since I know that someone will spout the nonsense that I am a Clam Apologist, in the past 3 months I have dropped in IS mechs 80-90% of the time and over the years have a near 50/50 ratio between Clan and IS drops.

[Phyrce]

ACH75, on 18 February 2019 - 09:10 PM, said:

IS DHS take a lot of space often preventing the use of Endo-Steel...

I think should be nice to have more engines dhs sockets

I mean... this is kind of the point. IS tech is inferior to Clan tech. If you find work arounds to make IS tech equivalent Clans become irrelevant.

[Sagara Sousuke 011011001]

Question. In Tabletop I remember the base standard was 10HS in the engine for all mechs. I noticed many have less than 10 standard, was this an earlier game mechanic change / balance? (new player here).

Edited by Sagara Sousuke 011011001, 19 February 2019 - 12:00 PM.

[R Valentine]

Phyrce, on 19 February 2019 - 11:55 AM, said:

I mean... this is kind of the point. IS tech is inferior to Clan tech. If you find work arounds to make IS tech equivalent Clans become irrelevant.

"If IS tech is competitive with clan, clans become irrelevant."

On what planet? Tomorrow 'morrow land? Even when IS competitive, clan tech and IS tech is fundamentally different. Having clans be outright superior makes IS irrelevant. And when clans are outright superior, PGI comes in with the nerf bad and hits them so hard they're unusable and never touches them again. If that's what you want, that's what you'll get.

[Daurock]

Angel of Annihilation, on 19 February 2019 - 09:43 AM, said:

Cna/IS stuff

Realistically, clan mechs are still currently better on raw paper, even with the extra heat and spread disadvantages. However, the quirk and agility advantages currently applied to IS stuff, (And notably, generally NOT applied to clan stuff) is strong enough to fill that gap. As it is, that balance is actually probably better than it ever has been up to this point.

If we want to see clan stuff to match IS level agility, or to see actual significant quirks on otherwise decent mechs, (Say Hi Warhammer IIC) some of that baseline equipment advantage would still need to be reduced. As is, there isn't a ton of room to quirk/speedify Clan mechs and not have them become OP. This makes them seem a bit samey, which is honestly probably the only downside to the current system, IMO.

[InspectorG]

WHAT WOULD BE NICE:

MY FAVORITE {insert Mech, Faction, Clan} TO GET SPECIAL BUFFS

So, Annihilators and Dires should get a heat dissipation quirk because their engine caps keep them from storing DHS in the engine at all.

Spider-V should get 7 more E Hardpoints.

Light mechs should NOT have to meet the 10 heat sink minimum. AND shouls get heat dissipation quirks to match the missing DHS.

Cicadas get moar Agility and ST Armor/Structure.

Lights get MinMaps with old Triangular doritos.

Summoners get +1HSR on Peeps so i can fire 3.


Thanks, PGI

[Phyrce]

Kiran Yagami, on 19 February 2019 - 12:09 PM, said:

"If IS tech is competitive with clan, clans become irrelevant."

On what planet? Tomorrow 'morrow land? Even when IS competitive, clan tech and IS tech is fundamentally different. Having clans be outright superior makes IS irrelevant. And when clans are outright superior, PGI comes in with the nerf bad and hits them so hard they're unusable and never touches them again. If that's what you want, that's what you'll get.

Clan have heavier fire power for higher heat and very little armor. As it stands clans are NOT outright superior, you're fooling yourself if you think they are. If you give IS the ability to indirectly increase their fire power by essentially giving them better critical slot management while still maintaining their superior armor on what planet tomorrow morrow land would Clan not become irrelevant?