22 replies to this topic

[m]

Hello everyone,

Simple enough question for discussion;

Should FP Scouting Missions have a higher payout than 25000 CBills?

I think it should be increased to at least 75000 to 100000 CBills.

Also here is the LINK for the poll.

Thoughts?

[R E X I OS]

Scouting is not about money , it's about getting that information that you need so then when you invade that planet you get that slight advantage.

[Black Ivan]

Why not? FW has so few population any way left

[Khobai]

R E X I OS, on 18 February 2019 - 11:36 PM, said:

Scouting is not about money , it's about getting that information that you need so then when you invade that planet you get that slight advantage.

unfortunately the bonuses from scout mode arnt really good enough to justify doing scout mode.

if winning scout mode directly helped capture planets there would be more of a reason to do it.

a simple fix would be to make every 15 scout wins count as 1 invasion win. that would make scout mode more impactful.

scout mode also needs a few minor changes to make it less dumb of a gamemode. Like actually telling the defenders with a radar ping where the attackers dropzone is instead of having awful green smoke you cant even see on half the maps. something also needs to be done to prevent lights from just running around and hiding and jumping in the square last second.

Edited by Khobai, 19 February 2019 - 12:52 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

No. Because by the time it takes you to do one invasion match you can do a dozen scoutings. And if you actually ... you know ... shoot stuff (a totally novel concept, I admit) ... it is waaaay more than 25k.

[m]

R E X I OS, on 18 February 2019 - 11:36 PM, said:

Scouting is not about money , it's about getting that information that you need so then when you invade that planet you get that slight advantage.

For a new player it could be about the money, and I completely agree it's about getting information that is needed.

I also think if the Faction Play amounts were based on Tier, FP could be booming with new players.


Here's a completely random scale I threw together for incentivising within Faction Play;

Tier 5 = 500000 / 100000 CBills
Tier 4 = 400000 / 90000 CBills
Tier 3 = 350000 / 85000 CBills
Tier 2 = 300000 / 80000 CBills
Tier 1 = 250000 / 75000 CBills

[PhoenixFire55]

m, on 19 February 2019 - 12:58 AM, said:

Tier 5 = 500000 / 100000 CBills
Tier 4 = 400000 / 90000 CBills
Tier 3 = 350000 / 85000 CBills
Tier 2 = 300000 / 80000 CBills
Tier 1 = 250000 / 75000 CBills

And why pray tell a bad who insists on being bad should earn more than smb who actually improves his game at least slightly in order to reach higher tiers?

Tiers are not an indicator of the amount of played maches exclusively. In fact, current tiers shouldn't be used for anything, let alone matchmaking or payouts.

Current faction play is a deterrent to new players by design, since you need to have several mechs or mechs with specific loadouts not instantly accessible for newcomers. One can argue if its good or bad, but it is like that, and at this point its safe to say it'll never change. A couple hundred matches in QuickPlay are needed for a new player first, and there already is a cadet bonus in order to bolster finances.

[m]

PhoenixFire55, on 19 February 2019 - 01:13 AM, said:

And why pray tell a bad who insists on being bad should earn more than smb who actually improves his game at least slightly in order to reach higher tiers?

Tiers are not an indicator of the amount of played maches exclusively. In fact, current tiers shouldn't be used for anything, let alone matchmaking or payouts.

Current faction play is a deterrent to new players by design, since you need to have several mechs or mechs with specific loadouts not instantly accessible for newcomers. One can argue if its good or bad, but it is like that, and at this point its safe to say it'll never change. A couple hundred matches in QuickPlay are needed for a new player first, and there already is a cadet bonus in order to bolster finances.

It's a completely random scale I posted to offer perspective with new players defaulting to Freelancer. To explain that, not many would go Merc with a unit immediately, and I wouldn't suspect many would go loyalist immediately either. As for Merc, that would push everything to contract based anyway. Focusing on Tiers isn't that bad of an idea just to simplify, but clearly the approach needs to be discussed and worked on.

For instance, if a new player chose Merc and contracts were more forgiving towards Scouting for newcomers (Tier 5), this contract below could be the ideal approach;

ie: "Scouting Mission Base Payout - 75000 CBills and 100000 CBills per successful scouting mission for the first 100 successful Scouting missions"

In theory, that's a great one-time contract for Tier 5 players. They get to run around, brawl, and experience a match in Faction Play. At the same time they get an incentive for being in Faction Play for a limited time and they, at the same time, populate Faction Play for a long period of time.

Now I just want to be clear to everyone reading, increasing the amount for Scouting for Everyone is what the thread is about. I suppose custom contracts just for Tier 5 could be implemented, but Tier 5 isn't the focus here, everyone is.

"Scouting Mission Base Payout - 75000 CBills" at minimum is what I initially suggested for everyone which probably could be set up on a coffee break by PGI.

But perhaps scouting needs an approach that is similar to Tier, but not entirely, and based on success so it has more staying power, whereas the more we Scout and are successful we get paid more, like 0.001% more, above 25000 CBills. So the more we play in Scouting and are successful at Scouting the more we earn based on our ability. Sounds very reasonable in regards to talent=reward which can be reset by ourselves and obviously re-earned.

Example:

25000 CBills plus 0.050% (50 previous successful scouting missions) = 26250 CBills
25000 CBills plus 0.978% (978 previous successful scouting missions) = 49450 CBills

Opinions??

Edited by m, 19 February 2019 - 03:11 AM.

[m]

Khobai, on 19 February 2019 - 12:39 AM, said:

a simple fix would be to make every 15 scout wins count as 1 invasion win. that would make scout mode more impactful.

How about if Scouting increased the Invasion CBill reward size substantially? The CBill pot size on a planet could be through the roof and people would jump at the chance of trying to take a planet.

If the Call to Arms was also advertising the amount up for grabs that would be huge too.

Edited by m, 19 February 2019 - 03:18 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Who only earns 25k cbills?

If I can be bothered to do scouting - 120k is the roughly normal payout.

Now if you wanna play PvE and run around collecting intel and diving on the cap point without shooting anything. You only have yourself to blame for low payouts.

[Sjorpha]

justcallme A S H, on 19 February 2019 - 03:20 AM, said:

Who only earns 25k cbills?

If I can be bothered to do scouting - 120k is the roughly normal payout.

Now if you wanna play PvE and run around collecting intel and diving on the cap point without shooting anything. You only have yourself to blame for low payouts.

If "PvE" style play is the strongest winning strategy that is a design problem with the gamemode should be fixed at that level.

It's still a bad thing when rewards don't favor the strongest winning strategies, it leads to perverse incentives and "farming" gameplay. Things like killing disconnects in the dropzone or beating an already beaten team to the last mech instead of just winning cleanly should never be favored by the reward system IMO. Some kind of time bonus for winning quickly or simply basing rewards on just winning or losing matches (like in a tournament, you simply win, lose or draw each match) could solve that.

Edited by Sjorpha, 19 February 2019 - 04:46 AM.

[dario03]

Scouting can already pay pretty good when you don't get stuck waiting on matches. The big problem is a lot don't play because they assume they won't get a match which leads to more players not playing. If we had a way of launching into a scouting queue with the MM automatically moving us to a different mode like qp/fp if a game can't be found then we could get more people trying for scouting. Like in my suggestion here https://mwomercs.com...94#entry6224594

[InspectorG]

We still have Scout mode?

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

well, it'd be nice if we had SOME way of getting more people into scouting.
imo, it is a really fun mode and a shame that there's so few people playing it.

at the very least they could shave off the ghosting-time, IMHO. being stuck for 10minutes in a lobby, just to get 25000 at the end - that is one of the killers right here. make it 3minutes. adjust the outcome in intel-boni if necessary.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 19 February 2019 - 06:37 AM.

[m]

Just going to include this for the sake of discussion;

Been waiting for 1 hour and 30 minutes in scouting on a very popular planet. It's not always about the money. It's about proving a point this time around.

justcallme A S H, on 19 February 2019 - 03:20 AM, said:

...

You only have yourself to blame for low payouts.

The depth of this conversation has nothing to do with the amount earned and gained. It has everything to do with incentivization for motivation. Without incentivization, Scouting mode proves to be counter-productive and the amount of "25000 CBills" does not make sense.


EDIT: Just got in to the match I was waiting for right after I made the post. Should be said that Scouting is an underrated mode. Needs incentivization, or another form of adjustment to progress match-startup, like letting any match play to occur in Scouting, no matter the odds or outcome.

Edited by m, 19 February 2019 - 10:49 AM.

[Grus]

25k? Are you not shooting mechs? Scouting is a 4v4 brawl... going after Intel is what you do AFTER you kill all the mechs.

[Bud Crue]

Well, as a practical matter scouting already has better rewards than posted for most of the player base.

I mean the vast majority only play it when there is an event that requires FP play, so for most players they are getting MC, or decals, or extra c-bills or whatever when they play scouting at all.

[Prototelis]

Most of the four man's I run into are only interested in playing the objective, and it's boring as ****. That or they go for nothing but legs which is also boring as ****.

They should let you shoot at the drop ship or something or just do away with the Intel aspect and call it a small skirmish.

[justcallme A S H]

m, on 19 February 2019 - 07:25 AM, said:

The depth of this conversation has nothing to do with the amount earned and gained. It has everything to do with incentivization for motivation. Without incentivization, Scouting mode proves to be counter-productive and the amount of "25000 CBills" does not make sense.

It is entirely relevant.

If you make the base payout say 100k. And then people can earn another 120k-200k on top. You're now earning more than a normal QP match.

It's pretty simple. If you drop the PvE warrior and play the FPS part of the FPS game. You will earn a solid average between 120k and upwards on 150k on a more reasonable game. That is more than enough for the speed of the match which is much quicker than a QP generally.

[Khobai]

It is irrelevant because the issue with scout mode isnt the payouts. its that doing scout matches has negligible impact on flipping planets. Theres absolutely zero feeling of accomplishment after winning several scout matches. Because the intel bonuses you get are almost entirely irrelevant and have very little impact on helping your team win invasion matches.

scout mode needs to have a direct impact on flipping planets. to make scout mode actually meaningful, every 15 scout wins should count as 1 invasion win. And scout mode also needs some minor changes (see my above post) to make the gamemode more fun and less frustrating overall. That way youd be able to play several scout matches on end without rage quitting...

also when a planet gets flipped, everybody who helped flip the planet should get rewarded proportionally, not just the unit that played the most matches. the current planet ownership system completely undermines the effort everyone else put into helping flip the planet. Units dont own planets. Factions do. Everyone who belongs to a faction should have a stake in their faction gaining territory regardless of whether theyre a solo player or in a unit.

making scout mode more impactful and rewarding solo players for helping to flip planets would help get solo players more involved in faction play.

Edited by Khobai, 19 February 2019 - 01:38 PM.