38 replies to this topic

[Armored Yokai]

100 ton marauder to beat the unskilled laserboat IIC
https://mwomercs.com...loadout-details

Dorsal Gun is included! (Further hinting that Harmony Gold no longer has power)

Edited by Armored Yokai, 09 January 2019 - 12:28 PM.

[Captain Polux]

Okay?

[Bombast]

A third Marauder. That explains my current bout of narcolepsy.

[Gas Guzzler]

100 ton IS laser boat? Nah.

[RickySpanish]

Doesn't have enough hardpoints for laser boating. Ballistics in arms with too many actuators. You are looking at a pair of uacs and hppcs at best. It's going to suck in the way only undergunned IS Assaults know how.

Edited by RickySpanish, 09 January 2019 - 12:56 PM.

[Prototelis]

IMO, the best one is going to be the missile boat.

Edit: Today's bad build is... https://mech.nav-alp...7c9e07c_MAD-4HP

Lord help you if I get close...

Edited by Prototelis, 09 January 2019 - 01:18 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

*cough*

[Antares102]

@OP
You are a little late with this topic.
Are you reaction times in-game the same as noticing this?

[Armored Yokai]

I've been busy okay?

[Y E O N N E]

Gas Guzzler, on 09 January 2019 - 12:42 PM, said:

100 ton IS laser boat? Nah.

But you can run it so cold bruh! _{still not colder than Clan}

[Angel of Annihilation]

Gas Guzzler, on 09 January 2019 - 12:42 PM, said:

100 ton IS laser boat? Nah.

I don't see the problem. 3 LPL + 5 MPL and 20 DHS is a pretty potent and probably fairly cool running laser vomit setup if you ask me especially when you consider just how fast IS Pulse Lasers can cycle through their fire and cooldown cycles.

The only things is they are going to be a tad slow at 58.3 kph without tweak. Still with Tweak you can get that up to 62.7 kph which is just barely enough to generally keep up with the NASCAR if your paying attention. Additionally since it is essentially a Marauder, it will likely have those tanky Marauder hitboxes that make the Marauder and Marauder IIC so good.

Overall it should be a good mech, honestly probably the best IS 100 Ton Assault mech aside from a few builds that can only be achieved on the other 100 tonners.

[Y E O N N E]

Marauders are tanky if they are small and agile, and if they get the opportunity to sit and trade. The IS MAD is small and nimble, the MAD-IIC less so. The MAD-II will be even less small and less nimble than the MAD-IIC and it has wings providing even more surface area to shoot at. That gun on top means your RT is permanently exposed.

All MAD types are super vulnerable when on the move.

It will be an OK 'Mech, and RIP anybody who gets close to the MAD-4HP, but its overall greatness remains dependent upon size, agility, and quirks, same as every other IS Assault.

[Armored Yokai]

Y E O N N E, on 09 January 2019 - 05:58 PM, said:

It will be an OK 'Mech, and RIP anybody who gets close to the MAD-4HP,

x8 SRM6 fired in groups of 4? along with the accuracy of 4 MPLs? no mech will be able to out burst this mech unless they use long range poke.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Y E O N N E, on 09 January 2019 - 05:58 PM, said:

Marauders are tanky if they are small and agile, and if they get the opportunity to sit and trade. The IS MAD is small and nimble, the MAD-IIC less so. The MAD-II will be even less small and less nimble than the MAD-IIC and it has wings providing even more surface area to shoot at. That gun on top means your RT is permanently exposed.

All MAD types are super vulnerable when on the move.

It will be an OK 'Mech, and RIP anybody who gets close to the MAD-4HP, but its overall greatness remains dependent upon size, agility, and quirks, same as every other IS Assault.

Seriously though, lets look at the other IS 100 ton mechs. The Annihilator huge and all its weapons sit kinda low making it very easy to target. Also the Anny can only roll with a max 300 engine. Then there is the King Crab which is exceptionally wide which makes the hit boxes huge and vulnerable from any angles. Also a good portion of its firepower is down low in the arms. Then we have the Fafnir which again has huge, easy to target hitboxes and like the Anny a relatively small sized engine at max of 325. Finally there is the Atlas which while having decent tankability, has all its weapons located very low around the waste for the most part.

Then look at the Marauder II. Its front profile is very narrow and compact comparatively and has the egg shape to it that makes it easy just to wiggle the nose and spread damage across all three torso facings. Additionally most of its weapons mounts are around cockpit level and it allows for a somewhat higher engine cap giving it the option to put on a bit more speed. I don't know but at least at first glance, it seems there is a ton of potential for the Marauder being "best in class" 100 ton IS Assault mech if you ask me which would make it better than just an "Ok" mech.

On the other hand, I guess maybe a better way to look at it would be that there is probably at least a 90% chance it will be at the worst and Ok mech which is better odds than normal because PGI has really came up with some lemons from time to time. That is a good starting point if you ask me because that probably means there is at least a 50% chance it will actually be above average to good.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Armored Yokai, on 09 January 2019 - 06:54 PM, said:

x8 SRM6 fired in groups of 4? along with the accuracy of 4 MPLs? no mech will be able to out burst this mech unless they use long range poke.

I was going to say this build wasn't really all that realistic but I just build it out and it is possible that as long as you don't mind it running fairly hot, having ammo in the ST w/o CASE protection and it being a bit plodding and slow, the build might be able to be done at least somewhat effectively.

MAD-4HP

Still though, the heat is going to be a bit brutal on this thing so how feasible it actually is in practice remains to be seen. You are likely to find yourself just running way too hot after only a few exchanges without the mobility to slide back into cover easily cool down due to its poor speed. Still you have now got me curious and I can't wait to test it out, especially with a full 91 skill points spend on heat reduction and mobility to try to offset its weaknesses.

Edited by Angel of Annihilation, 09 January 2019 - 07:39 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Angel of Annihilation, on 09 January 2019 - 07:06 PM, said:

Seriously though, lets look at the other IS 100 ton mechs. The Annihilator huge and all its weapons sit kinda low making it very easy to target. Also the Anny can only roll with a max 300 engine. Then there is the King Crab which is exceptionally wide which makes the hit boxes huge and vulnerable from any angles. Also a good portion of its firepower is down low in the arms. Then we have the Fafnir which again has huge, easy to target hitboxes and like the Anny a relatively small sized engine at max of 325. Finally there is the Atlas which while having decent tankability, has all its weapons located very low around the waste for the most part.

1. Engine size really doesn't matter, evidenced by how well Fafnirs and Annihilators perform on just a 300 engine. I can almost guarantee that many of the best MAD-II builds will also be running 300-rated engines and it's not like a 325 is much faster; it's just 3.8 kph. That is not the difference between life and death or even hot and cold. If the MAD-4A were allowed to fit up to a 375, the story would be different, but as-is it will just boat SHS on a small-ish engine with Heavy-grade firepower so it can fire all day.

2. The low mounts also don't really seem to matter; none of these gigantic, slow IS Assault 'Mechs trade well because they can't reverse down hills or around corners quickly and because the ones with high mounts have their cockpits too low relative to those mounts (MAD-II is no exception, especially with the dorsal gun, see also NSR). All of them are full-expose, big-d**k 'Mechs that control long firing lanes, punish more agile pokers, or crash through battle lines. The MAD-II will be no different unless they give it generous mobility for its class (and I hope they do).

3. The MAD has easier hitboxes to target than the ANH, especially the IIC; most people just don't aim at them and keep trying to hit CT instead of the fins on the back end. KGC is super wide, but it's also fairly hard to hit CT from the side, so that's a trade-off. Convergence is a larger issue.

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Then look at the Marauder II. Its front profile is very narrow and compact comparatively and has the egg shape to it that makes it easy just to wiggle the nose and spread damage across all three torso facings.

This is not a 75 ton Marauder, this is a 100 ton Marauder with all that implies. The 95-ton Nightstar has a similar narrow nose, but it also has similar gigantic vents at the rear. It is plagued by garbage agility and garbage durability, both of which basically relegate it to long-range fire support roles. The advantages the MAD-II has over the NSR are no hand actuators and much better convergence from arm weapons.

And even the 75-ton Marauder has its weaknesses. The central ridge that the cockpit is installed into is all CT and it cannot be shielded. When you have big guns in the RT, that cannot be shielded. All types of Marauder have gigantic vents that can be targeted unless you twist off at a more aggressive angle and render you extremely vulnerable from top and side angles. The MAD-II in particular has outboard wings which add additional targets for hitting the ST, to say nothing of that massive cannon up top providing a giant, unshieldable bulls-eye for your RT.

Quote

Additionally most of its weapons mounts are around cockpit level and it allows for a somewhat higher engine cap giving it the option to put on a bit more speed. I don't know but at least at first glance, it seems there is a ton of potential for the Marauder being "best in class" 100 ton IS Assault mech if you ask me which would make it better than just an "Ok" mech.

All of that also applies to the Nightstar but then you notice, just like on the Nightstar, that there is a ton of mass above the cockpit that becomes targetable before your view clears the ridge. The MAD-II will be much better around a corner than the NSR, since it doesn't have those hilariously wide arms, but over a hill it's not going to be at all better. All Marauders are mediocre at hill-peaking and much better at cornering.

Quote

On the other hand, I guess maybe a better way to look at it would be that there is probably at least a 90% chance it will be at the worst and Ok mech which is better odds than normal because PGI has really came up with some lemons from time to time. That is a good starting point if you ask me because that probably means there is at least a 50% chance it will actually be above average to good.

What makes the MAD-II potentially really strong is the fact that the 4HP has 13 offensive hardpoints, all of which are tonnage efficient types and the most of any IS 'Mech to date with only the ANH-1X coming close at 11. Barring some interesting quirks, the rest of the variants are all doing things you can do way more efficiently with a lighter 'Mechs. I mean, shoot, they should have given the MAD-4A a full set of 9 energy hardpoints so it could at least mount the best possible mid-range IS vomit combo, 3x LPL+6x ERML, but no. Instead, it will do what can be much better done on a BLR-3M or 1G or even an STK-5S, or you have to get crazy with some ultra-hot combos.

Having lower arm actuators across the board is also not helping anything.

This 'Mech will need to be some combination of smaller, more agile, or better armored than I am expecting for it to really shine over what we have in the game as of this post.

[Angel of Annihilation]

You have some good points Yeonne but I still think your underestimating the Marauder II. I am not saying it is going to be the best IS Assault mech but it will likely be the best at 100 tons. Also, speed does matter, even if it is a measly 5 kph especially when your that slow assault caught up in the NASCAR pumping your legs for all its worth trying to keep ahead of the death spiral. While I don't believe it will be even close to the best IS Assault Mech, I think it will likely be at least above average.

[Dogstar]

The reason the Annihilator and Fafnir do well is that they can mount either twin HGR or 4xLBX10 and the Crabby King can do 6xAC2.

Unless the new Marauder gets the same sort of ballistic slots or massive UAC quirks it's not going to do anything like as well.

<away>

Okay I checked out the loadouts and the best it can do is 4xAC2/UAC2/LBX2 plus 2 energy and ECM on one chassis, those are arm mounts though so you'd have to expose the entire torso, and both of those chassis are at additional cost.

I think we're looking at a reskinned Nighstar here...

Edited by Dogstar, 10 January 2019 - 11:53 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

If I get it and play again, I would run it like I like to run the MAD and MAD-IIC.... with some form of PPCs and ballistics

[Y E O N N E]

I'm running this MAD-4HP and this MAD-4A.