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Solaris 7 Has Severe Population Issues.


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#21 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 09:46 AM

View PostLily from animove, on 04 March 2019 - 09:43 AM, said:

No it's obviously the game modes problem, because hardly anyone wants to play cheesechassis warrior online.


You are free to use any mech and any loadout you want. So is the guy opposite of you. The fact that in your irrelevant opinion his loadout is 'cheese' is exactly that ... irrelevant.

#22 Toha Heavy Industries

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 09:48 AM

View PostLily from animove, on 04 March 2019 - 09:43 AM, said:

No it's obviously the game modes problem, because hardly anyone wants to play cheesechassis warrior online.


You have several picks, some even work rock scissor paper (anni and arctic wolf). You don't have to pick the weakest chassie in the rooster.

#23 justcallme A S H

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 11:09 AM

View PostPhoenixFire55, on 04 March 2019 - 04:47 AM, said:

Lets be honest, shall we? ... When people asked for Solaris years back they asked for it 'in order to be rid of PUGs who drag them down' and 'have a game mode that clearly shows their personal skill'. But the hard reality is that only like 2% of playerbase actually have said skill. When hard reality hits you in the face by being totally outclassed, outplayed and outmechlabbed several times in a row ... well, you simply give up and start crying how the game mode is broken, how you need to 'invest too much into it', or how there is nobody to play with (i.e. nobody you can roflmao-pewpew-stomp).

Solaris does exactly what its supposed to do. It pins you one on one against an opponent in perfectly equal starting conditions. Everything else is up to you.


Yep.

Right there is the reason Solaris was kinda semi-doomed from the outset.

It puts in clear as day terms - just how much of a skill gap there is in MWO from the top end to the just-below the top end (and all the way to the bottom).

People don't like finding out that gap is massive and thus just go back to QP to then "blame the team".

Despite it's flaws, I've enjoyed Solaris and improved my gameplay even further because of it.

View PostLily from animove, on 04 March 2019 - 09:01 AM, said:

What people expected:
A gamemode with chassis sorted by performance brackets so everyone can bring the chassis they liked for some skill based Minifights.

What people got: badly sorted brackets where it all comes by min-maxing the most cheese loadout fir instagibbing.


Skill based minifights and min-maxing...

You just contradicted yourself. A lot of the SKILL in MWO comes from the Mechlab, understanding it and the mech/counters/play style.

Some of the builds I've run are definately not "META" or min/maxed, they surprise opponents and then it's a good test of how to counter it.

#24 PeppaPig

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 11:57 AM

View PostPhoenixFire55, on 04 March 2019 - 09:39 AM, said:


You are free to choose any mech, including the once chosen by your opponent, be it a light or a heavy. If you choose to gimp yourself by dropping in a supposedly inferior chassis, then its your problem and your problem only.


As usual ASH, completely missed the point. Go back, reread and you will see that the response is perfectly valid - whatever mech you choose does not mean you will be on an equal setting; it cannot be equal unless you knew ahead of the drop selection what your opponent was taking and matched it like for like which is what Pheonix's post implies.

#25 Makenzie71

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 12:08 PM

But you CAN pretty accurately guess what you're going to face in each division. I don't understand that argument. I can't remember the last time I dropped into a match and was surprised by what my opponent brought. I don't get how there's this huge imbalance with mech varieties inside the divisions. Because you get lights and assaults in the same match? How is that unfair? A light or fast med is about the last thing any assault pilot wants to see in a match...especially in chassis like the ANH where you can't look down far enough to actually aim at them.

the only time mech weight will really matter is when you're trying to play the game like a newton's cradle.

#26 Ghost Paladin117

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 12:38 PM

View PostMakenzie71, on 04 March 2019 - 12:08 PM, said:

But you CAN pretty accurately guess what you're going to face in each division. I don't understand that argument. I can't remember the last time I dropped into a match and was surprised by what my opponent brought. I don't get how there's this huge imbalance with mech varieties inside the divisions. Because you get lights and assaults in the same match? How is that unfair? A light or fast med is about the last thing any assault pilot wants to see in a match...especially in chassis like the ANH where you can't look down far enough to actually aim at them.

the only time mech weight will really matter is when you're trying to play the game like a newton's cradle.


Well the lightest thing an Anni in div 1 will be an arctic wolf. You can look down and hit it even without arm mounts. But how many people try to bring that? Div 2 is a melting pot of mechs. Boiler will most likely kill a piranha in nearly every scenario.

#27 Lily from animove

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 12:43 PM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 04 March 2019 - 11:09 AM, said:


Yep.

Right there is the reason Solaris was kinda semi-doomed from the outset.

It puts in clear as day terms - just how much of a skill gap there is in MWO from the top end to the just-below the top end (and all the way to the bottom).

People don't like finding out that gap is massive and thus just go back to QP to then "blame the team".

Despite it's flaws, I've enjoyed Solaris and improved my gameplay even further because of it.



Skill based minifights and min-maxing...

You just contradicted yourself. A lot of the SKILL in MWO comes from the Mechlab, understanding it and the mech/counters/play style.

Some of the builds I've run are definately not "META" or min/maxed, they surprise opponents and then it's a good test of how to counter it.


mechlab requires 0 skill you can just google loadouts even if you are the maximum derp of the mechlab. So this part just requires no skill at all.

#28 Makenzie71

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 12:45 PM

Div 2 is the real mix but I've even seen the boilers brought down by lights getting in close and hugging their legs. I watch a lot of matches when my preferred divisions aren't dropping.

#29 justcallme A S H

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 01:01 PM

View PostPeppaPig, on 04 March 2019 - 11:57 AM, said:


As usual ASH, completely missed the point. Go back, reread and you will see that the response is perfectly valid - whatever mech you choose does not mean you will be on an equal setting; it cannot be equal unless you knew ahead of the drop selection what your opponent was taking and matched it like for like which is what Pheonix's post implies.


No I didn't. You didn't read what I said.

Why should it be equal? It should not - Strength/Weakness/Counter/Balance. That is what makes it interesting.

I have taken a number of non-META builds/mechs against the 'META' for the division at the time and handily beaten it.

I play to the strength of the build I have and to the weakness of the opponent. You can tell from the drop screen what weapons they have in what mech. Knowledge is power.


View PostLily from animove, on 04 March 2019 - 12:43 PM, said:


mechlab requires 0 skill you can just google loadouts even if you are the maximum derp of the mechlab. So this part just requires no skill at all.



PMSL. I had one guy lose 5 games to me. Various mechs/loadouts because I brought a totally left-field mech last season in that division. What was the end result? He ended up copying me to try and win because it was so off META he had no idea how to counter it.

There was no Google result for that loadout because it was something that a good friend of mine came up with and I altered to suit my playing style in a strict 1v1 scenario only.

To say the Mechlab and knowing the division takes 0 skill is pure ignorance. The Mechlab is literally the difference between being average and being great. Get the mechlab wrong and you've lost. Get it right and you're half way to a win.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 04 March 2019 - 01:51 PM.


#30 Bowelhacker

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 01:50 PM

I think something that might help people is to realise which division is best for them. Not everyone is going to dominate in Div 1 for various reasons, but Div 4 might be the better fit. In my limited experience I suck absolutely in most divisions except 5. I think, I don't play it often enough to actually remember.

#31 Xiphias

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 10:16 AM

View PostLily from animove, on 04 March 2019 - 12:43 PM, said:

mechlab requires 0 skill you can just google loadouts even if you are the maximum derp of the mechlab. So this part just requires no skill at all.

You can't just do this in Solaris though. The builds are specific and there are definitely cases with more rock-paper-scissors scenarios. The best players in Solaris innovate and define the meta, giving them an edge, particularly at the start. They also adapt their mechs based on the meta and the players they face.

I've been running a Commando in Div 4 just for fun. I ran into one of the top players in that division who was using a Banshee (with stripped leg armor) I was able to beat him twice because my build was a direct counter to what he was running. As a result, we chatted a bit and he built a different mech (an Archer) that was capable of beating my Commnado, but also could hold its own against the other heavier mechs in the division.

That's not something that someone copying builds off of google could do. Yes, you can copy builds, but to say that there is no mechlab skill involved in untrue. Being able to evaluate the quality of a build and the situations that it is best suited for is a skill set that many, many players I run into don't understand.

#32 UnkerZ

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 08:36 PM

Solution: Solaris LRM 1 on 1 - will be a sure hit

#33 Dionnsai

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 07:10 AM

View PostLily from animove, on 04 March 2019 - 09:43 AM, said:

No it's obviously the game modes problem, because hardly anyone wants to play cheesechassis warrior online.


Do tell then, please provide us a breakdown of mechs and chassis and how you would divide them into divisions in a way that would prevent a handful from rising to the obvious top in a given division?

#34 Kalimaster

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 10:54 AM

There is no incentive to play. Yeah, so we get bolt ons. but nothing that will improve a Mech.

#35 Ghost Paladin117

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 01:18 PM

View PostKalimaster, on 18 March 2019 - 10:54 AM, said:

There is no incentive to play. Yeah, so we get bolt ons. but nothing that will improve a Mech.


There is tons of incentive, have you not seen end of season rewards?
You are able to win thousands of MC, millions of Cbills, hundreds of thousands of GXP, AND rare warhorns/dekkles.
Bragging rights as well.

#36 Saint Dane Icaza

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 07:57 PM

View PostKalimaster, on 18 March 2019 - 10:54 AM, said:

There is no incentive to play. Yeah, so we get bolt ons. but nothing that will improve a Mech.


Except CBills, XP, and the millions of GXP you can earn from end-of-season rewards.

I haven't had to spend mech XP in quite some time.

Edited by Saint Dane Icaza, 18 March 2019 - 08:05 PM.


#37 justcallme A S H

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 08:10 PM

View PostDionnsai, on 16 March 2019 - 07:10 AM, said:


Do tell then, please provide us a breakdown of mechs and chassis and how you would divide them into divisions in a way that would prevent a handful from rising to the obvious top in a given division?


I suspect the answer to this question will never come.

But you know, experts and 'i can do it better' and stuff.

#38 Makenzie71

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 02:58 AM

View PostSaint Dane Icaza, on 18 March 2019 - 07:57 PM, said:


Except CBills, XP, and the millions of GXP you can earn from end-of-season rewards.

I haven't had to spend mech XP in quite some time.


You're up close to the top, though...I'm always top 100 with a few divisions top 25, and I break about even (I imagine next season will be better, I can't think of any other mechs they'll convince me to buy).

The bulk of the players, though, won't get much at all.

#39 Mainhunter

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 06:20 AM

It should be more visible who is willing to play. Hopping from division to division to find players is nonsense.

#40 Dionnsai

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 07:31 AM

I posted this in another thread, but I think it applys here:

Quote

This is a 1v1 (or sometimes 2v2) competition where there are no excuses, no bad pug teams to blame, just you and the other guy. The people who don't like their bad K/D aren't going to be appeased by hiding it, their ELO will still show that they are sub-par. You win or lose based solely on your choices in the mechlab and your tactical ability as a pilot.

This is probably the truest reason for the low population in Solaris, pilots who "think" they are good because of how they do in quickplay have their illusions immediately shattered when they run into someone in Solaris who absolutely dominates them in seconds and makes them look like the mech-dads they are.

That said, some of us with thicker skin stick it out, study the opponents and get better. I'm much better than I was in season 1, and I can think of countless other pilots I've seen in Solaris from season to season getting better and better. Pilots I take seriously now that I never would have 2 or 3 seasons ago.

Solaris is not for the faint of heart, the thin skinned or the easily bruised ego. Keep Win/Loss, its your trophy wall, the evidence of the beatings you took to get better, and a mark of honor for those who have played a ton of matches. As well, it's a great way to see which pilots are here to play Solaris because they love it, and which pilots are "25 and done".

Edited by Dionnsai, 31 March 2019 - 07:37 AM.






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