29 replies to this topic

[BrunoSSace]

Hello Mr/Mrs PGI.
Why don't you let the player base make new maps for you? Ether have them write down ideas or make a program so we can create new maps. Now I know this isnt like Unreal Tournament where you can make new maps in a few minutes. Since it has a built in map editor. But I'm sure if "we" the player base started a fourm post where we contributed, ether ideas or pictures or hand drawning of ideas, that this will help.

I know atm that as a company, you are focusing souly on MW5 and that old MWO is on the back foot atm. But that is no reason why we cant help to make it better. Now I know its "your game". What would the uneducated mass know? Well I forone think thats a terrible way to think. What modders can do is amazing, look at Counter Strike map's, most of those were player made. Cause at the end of the day, the players know what we kinda want.

Just an idea, I know it has been posted before. Just stirring thd water again. Since the game seems its a bit stale atm.
The bruno, ty for reading.

Edited by BrunoSSace, 28 February 2019 - 11:42 AM.

[Prototelis]

I seriously doubt they have the ability, through their license to the engine, to release the tools they use.

Map design is a lot more involved than dropping assets onto a heightmap. This would be a qc nightmare.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Prototelis, on 28 February 2019 - 01:02 PM, said:

I seriously doubt they have the ability, through their license to the engine, to release the tools they use.

Map design is a lot more involved than dropping assets onto a heightmap. This would be a qc nightmare.

Yet so many other games leverage the community, who ironically design maps that are typically 10x better than anything made by the developer and don't seem to have too many QC nightmares. Also, even if there were QC issues, leveraging the community to design the map and ONLY doing QC on it is still faster than design AND QC.

Lets be honest here, PGI has never utilized its community effectively for MWO. The game would be 100x more popular if they allowed things like UI Mods, Map Modes, game mode mods, etc, etc, etc. This is the stuff that get the community behind the game and gets new people signing up to play. I mean hell MW:LL is still alive and strong because of this an the graphics in that game are so dated it isn't funny.

[Prototelis]

Which mmos allow you to make maps that don't feature an in-game snap-to wysiwig style editor?

[LordNothing]

Prototelis, on 28 February 2019 - 03:38 PM, said:

Which mmos allow you to make maps that don't feature an in-game snap-to wysiwig style editor?

i still dont see the massive part. its barely even an mo as it is, it doesnt get another m until it stops being an arena shooter.

[Ensaine]

Back in closed beta, we had a lot of people stepping up wanting to make maps......they all got shot down.......

Considering anyone can freely download the CE tool set, well, that ends that .....tools are available.

They would need to make a change to the code, to allow one to load into their map on a client side Training Grounds scenario, so mappers can test out their maps before submitting them to whatever QC entity might exist.........

I made a lot of maps for Quakeworld, Counter Strike, and Unreal.......after about 50-100 mistakes, one can begin to get the hang of the tool set.. then it's only a matter of how good a level designer one might be.... lighting, and clipping textures usually being the most troublesome..... at least in the tools I used back in the day......

By this point, we should already have a good amount of fan made maps in rotation......

I could easily be wrong, but, having been here since the beginning, I truly feel the mappers were shot down, because of the potential of fan made maps being better than the OEM ones......

[Kotzi]

PGI said they dont want people to make maps because those wouldnt meet their standards anyway. Funny that there are games that started as mods quite a long time ago and established to be a billiion dollar venture with community made maps today still. There are very competent, creative people that do and did great stuff in their spare time and gifted their work to the public, for free.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Prototelis, on 28 February 2019 - 03:38 PM, said:

Which mmos allow you to make maps that don't feature an in-game snap-to wysiwig style editor?

thats not a MMO !!! thats a Shooter like MW4 , im created over 20 maps for MW4 (thats not so easy for Mapmaking and you must editing Hexdecimals Files for a little more detailed Textures)...and Mapmaking with Cryengine is simple and not witchery...seeing MWLL.
Each mapmaker test and fix his Maps with Friends more as mapmaker by PGI thats have the short Deadline from the boss in the Neck...each personal Map is a personal Thing of art for the Mapper, not only a Job, seeing Blizzard , and UT
Im self begun an lot of Maps for MWO to testing the assets and models and build a very Low Poly Union Dropship for
testing the import Function



..later im stop it while no Future for it like many Guys thats leaves MWO ...seeing the old tread in the german Forum

https://mwomercs.com...8560-map-ideen/

little Impression form a work in progress map
https://youtu.be/bT12UmkK8mU

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 01 March 2019 - 10:38 PM.

[Variant1]

Seriously PGI shot themselves in the foot on this one. So many games especially on steam have a workshop for maps. We could have had 50 maps in rotation all made by the community and each giving a flavor (close range, heat, urban, cold, dester etc). Tons fo games do it and it would make even more sense for PGI to do it since they have a small team and most reasources nowadays is being spent on MW5. Its even been suggested before. I dont know why PGI is so stuborn, no one is saying they are better then them they just want to help FOR FREE.

Like how do you turn down free help to make a game better with more maps to shoot in? i am bamboozled

[Acersecomic]

It would honestly be great if players could make new maps and then for PGI to develop them because PGI is THE WORST AT MAP MAKING I HAVE EVER SEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They neither match the gameplay nor gamemodes.

[Spiritwalker_]

I agree and wish PGI would give an official answer as to why community member(s) cannot produce maps for this game, as there (from memory) has been real no definitive answer why maps cannot be made by the community

If maps are made by the community, have PGI look them over and if some of them meet a standard release them in the game. Would save time on PGI's part and could concentrate on other aspects of the game.

[Horseman]

Spiritwalker_, on 01 March 2019 - 02:22 PM, said:

I agree and wish PGI would give an official answer as to why community member(s) cannot produce maps for this game, as there (from memory) has been real no definitive answer why maps cannot be made by the community

If maps are made by the community, have PGI look them over and if some of them meet a standard release them in the game. Would save time on PGI's part and could concentrate on other aspects of the game.

There are four more or less obvious reasons.
1. The question of license. Looking at Crytek's recent lawsuit vs CIG, if the same terms were applied to PGI's license they indeed may be unable to grant any third party access to internal tools
2. Internal tools are not generally meant for user consumption. Even if you had access to them, you might balk at how counterintuitive and fragile they can be.
3. Intellectual property rights over such derivative products can get rather wonky, and that's even without the community map creators inserting unlicensed assets and/or references to third party IPs. That stuff is what lawsuits are made of.
4. To alleviate #3, PGI would have to devote manpower to establishing a QA/vetting process for the user-generated content.

[Burning2nd]

A lot of pgi's "shooting them self in the foo" maneuver .. is a direct result of there licensing agreements (which i hear are about to expire)

For what ever reason the whole battletech and mechwarrior franchise brings a slew of B.s with it, I dont know if its the eastern country people who kind of started with the Gundam style stuff Or from what ive read and been told over the last idk 25+years of this....

there are a bunch of people with there hands in the legal cookie jar,

But i do overall agree.. This is hardly a Mass online anything,
and PGI and mechwarrior Online would have done ten fold better if they had taken some advice from the people who where putting in the cockpit hours

then there is the issue of the engine, Which they are not very good at using.. (i think that is a H.R issue) and all the limitations follow suit


But its still a good mech related online game..

(*on the wonky interface point)

totally true..

thats how BMW got pwned, but bmw put a spin on it after words and worked with the enthusiasts and it turned out well for

them, Im sure cryengine doesn't want there tool out in the public.

[Prototelis]

The public ce development tools aren't necessarily the same tool they use. We also aren't privy to their design specifications.

Map design is a lot more complicated than dumping assets on a height map. There's also a lot of legal repercussions for dumping unowned assets into a game.

It's a qc nightmare.

Edited by Prototelis, 04 March 2019 - 04:08 PM.

[Koniving]

The above is very true. However, if using exclusively MWO's existing assets, it should be fine. And in the term "helping", it is implied that PGI would need to do some passes over said maps, if accepted, before implementing them. After all they need to make a non-rendered version simplified by using 1/8th of the polygons (or was it 1/16th? Its been a long time since PGI specified that). Either way, if not done right we'll have some nasty invisible walls in the end result... even the professionals can't seem to help that part.

The biggest problem, though, is it'd be just as much work to look at, clean up, ensure the scale is big enough to not get the largest mech in the game stuck on every feasible surface..and implement such maps..with that kind of time they could simply make their own using the assets they already created just as easily if not easier if they didn't overplan it.

That's followed by if someone that made the map wanted royalties or claimed the map / said they wanted to "license it"... that would be a legal nightmare.

But first... they'd need to start, which isn't gonna happen until after MW5 Mercs is out, as apparently they still aren't done with the features as they're still considering whether or not to put some in.

[Appogee]

Kotzi, on 01 March 2019 - 04:50 AM, said:

PGI said they dont want people to make maps because those wouldnt meet their standards anyway.

PMSL. What standards?
The "invisible walls" standard?
The "scale that makes Mechs feel human sized" standard?
The "adding snow to Canyon Network makes it a new map" standard?

Edited by Appogee, 03 March 2019 - 03:56 PM.

[Appogee]

Koniving, on 03 March 2019 - 03:46 PM, said:

apparently they still aren't done with the features as they're still considering whether or not to put some in.

When PGI say they are "considering" a feature, they're not planning to add that feature. They just don't want to disappoint any potential customers by giving a straight "no".

Edited by Appogee, 03 March 2019 - 04:05 PM.

[thievingmagpi]

Appogee, on 03 March 2019 - 03:53 PM, said:

PMSL. What standards?
The "invisible walls" standard?
The "scale that makes Mechs feel human sized" standard?
The "adding snow to Canyon Network makes it a new map" standard?

lol they don't want to get embarrassed by someone whipping up a superior map in a few days, for free.

[Horseman]

Appogee, on 03 March 2019 - 03:53 PM, said:

PMSL. What standards? The "invisible walls" standard? The "scale that makes Mechs feel human sized" standard? The "adding snow to Canyon Network makes it a new map" standard?

The "there are enough spawn points for all players" standard, the "players don't fall through the floors" standard and "the map can be used in more than one mode" standard.

thievingmagpi, on 03 March 2019 - 05:08 PM, said:

lol they don't want to get embarrassed by someone whipping up a superior map

Consider that PGI's review would have to happen for all maps submitted, including the ones that fail QC. Given Sturgeon's Law, 90% would fail. PGI still has to spend their employees time - and pay the employees for said time - on QC for those.

Quote

in a few days, for free.

What is your experience in developing FPS maps?

Prototelis, on 03 March 2019 - 02:20 PM, said:

The public ce development tools aren't necessarily the same tool they use.

Yep. And those would either have to be developed (hello, time investment) or internal tools released (the pitfalls of which we've already discussed)

[Burning2nd]

It sounds like we are having a hard time excepting that this game is dead,

they arent going to waste any more time or money on this.. Its on to bigger and better things,

IF anything maybe someone could make a stand alone mod Or a add on mod after the licensing expires

in all honesty, Im going to be happy to see the NEW old maps..

for the amount of time ive got on those maps.. I can only remember the caldara and the tunnel