29 replies to this topic

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Prototelis, on 03 March 2019 - 02:20 PM, said:

The public ce development tools aren't necessarily the same tool they use. We also aren't privy to their design specifications.

Map design is a lot more complicated than dumping assets on a height map. There's also a lot of legal repercussions for dumping unopened assets into a game.

It's a qc nightmare.

you have each Experience in map Making ? with working in Cryengine SDK or UE4 SDK ? why you speak fro Things without nothing experience in it and only bring Myths in the Discussion??? when PGI give his own Assets free for use , no Problems ...problems only by Assets from Players thats come from other Medias ...you become Problems when you use for example WH40k assets in the Maps ...and seeing SC 2 Blizzard to make clear Rule for Usermake Contest .License Problems with the Unseen Mechs (ok ...not longer ) and teh differnet Licenses by BT to Miniatures, Movies, Videogames ,and all Othe on Merchandise, not with maptools or Usercontent (without Users sells 3D printed Mechs from PGI)..seeing MWLL (all with Cryengine 3 -the same thats MWO used)
Blizzard has simply determined that all Fan created it in their possession and then they have the full rights ... know every Mapmaker what he gets involved in and only for the game.
User made Maps for UT 2004 was a Big part, Mods and Maps for BF2 , for Star Wars Battlefront 1&2 (old Games) MW4 and the most was High Quality Mods and Maps, each Mapper has a own interest thats the Maps come fixed and inbest Condition to the Community...thats not only a Job and Maps not a Problem in Modern Games like ARk Survival .
Problem is more thats PGI have lost the Creators of the modiefied Cryengine , and not find Peoples thats works with this further.
The heightmaps was good in old mW4 Days for Mapping...not today who you have real Time Terrainbuild Tools ,and use more as 1 Groundtexture for a Map.

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 04 March 2019 - 03:37 AM.

[Horseman]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 04 March 2019 - 03:12 AM, said:

you have each Experience in map Making ? with working in Cryengine SDK or UE4 SDK ?

Do you?

Quote

why you speak fro Things without nothing experience in it and only bring Myths in the Discussion???

He's not.

Quote

when PGI give his own Assets free for use , no Problems ...

Unless the textures, sounds etc were licensed from a third party (which is quite common) under terms that prohibit redistribution of the texture itself (again not uncommon).

Quote

you become Problems when you use for example WH40k assets in the Maps ...

... or if you deliberately recreate contents of a third party IP using the existing assets (users can be very creative). Every inch of every map would have to be checked.

Quote

Blizzard has simply determined that all Fan created it in their possession and then they have the full rights ... know every Mapmaker what he gets involved in and only for the game.

Just because they have that in their EULA does not automatically make it legally enforceable, and laws in individual countries may affect it (for example, the funny notion of a creator retaining "moral rights" to the work in question and being unable to waive those).

Quote

The heightmaps was good in old mW4 Days for Mapping...not today

Sounds like you're agreeing with him there...

[R Valentine]

PGI has universally rejected all forms of community help in almost any aspect of MWO development aside from PTS sessions.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Kiran Yagami, on 04 March 2019 - 07:42 AM, said:

PGI has universally rejected all forms of community help in almost any aspect of MWO development aside from PTS sessions.

Yea kind sucks bet the community could come up with some great maps. Hate say it but maybe they don't want to get shown up by the community when they make better maps;)

[Novakaine]

It's not the maps.
it's the ability to run the maps on 2400 baud modems.
We have for servers

[JediPanther]

Only an idiot works for free.

[The pessimistic optimist]

JediPanther, on 04 March 2019 - 09:59 AM, said:

Only an idiot works for free.

Whats work to some is a fun pastime for others.

[Prototelis]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 04 March 2019 - 03:12 AM, said:

you have each Experience in map Making ? with working in Cryengine SDK or UE4 SDK ?

I do. I started making maps and mods in a game called Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight.

From there I moved onto HL, UT and Quake 3, and then onto the original Far Cry, Crysis, and Crysis 2.

It was particularly difficult to optimize maps for Jedi Knight, due to engine and hardware limitations.

Cryengine was by far the most difficult to work with, despite the wysiwig nature of the editor. I often mention heightmaps because thats how most levels are started, you draw out the terrain in a raster and it becomes the "ground." I was also acquainted with someone who went on to work for Crytek on the Cryengine 1.0 - to 3.0 engine; He also got his start editing Jedi Knight. From what little he was able to share with us during that period; The engine is a convoluted mess in many regards and a lot of the really nice in game effects in the that are used are the result of workarounds.


As much as y'all tout LL, it has its own problems; especially with stability, hit reg, and performance.

Its also important to recognise the difference between a mod and a fork. The version of cryengine in use here, on this game, is a fork. It is heavily modified.


Onto Karl Berg, whom you keep mentioning; IF Karl wrote most of the base systems, was responsible for developing most of the features in this engine, AND the code is mostly referred to as "spaghetti" then how the **** would it be better if he was still around?

^I don't actually believe any of that, other than the spaghetti bits. Games are REALLY ******* complicated in the back end, the parts you don't see. Cryengine is WELL KNOWN to be incredibly difficult to work with, I don't doubt for a second that today's code base is a pile of clever workarounds.

You insult Karl every time you bring him up; On one hand you believe he is the entire driving force behind the development of this games' features. On the other hand you claim the developer cannot make modifications to his work; like he didn't document all of his changes and systems. That's ******** bro.

There is a lot going on in map design; both on the legal and technical side of things.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

yes the Cryengine is difficult to handle ,and has many Problems , for me was a Mess as im must go from Version 3 to 5 ...was a full new experience in many Ways, many old Steps not more worked first in the old way , the global Lightning was now very different in the Standard Settings.
All in the Cryengine im found better for map making as the UE4.
When im Thinking to the Days as im make maps for Battlefront 2 ..its was terribel , working Weeks to a Map and failed by a little error by editing the datafiles for the Time/Fractionsfiles in the Game and not found the Error ..or the hex error in a Map for MW4 .Yes Karl Berg and others (many, Animators and other expiried Guys leaves PGI 2014/15 and build own Projects or goes to Companys like Relic) was for me the "Engine" of MWO Cryengine (Only Ideas bring not a Railway to roll...you must have Tracklayers and Engineers) ...Her leave PGI after the Transverse Desaster and from this Moment , the game was in Stagnation and stops in each Ways and Karl berg was the Guy thats speak with the community and give feedback , really Feedback with experience and not only hollow Marketing Fairy tales..after his leaves , the Communication between PGI and Community was broken and from PGI came the ...we not can make ...Engine to difficult ...yes PGI searched in His Career Portal Guys with Cryengine Experience ...and searched ...and searched (im think PGI has not the best reputation in the Gaming World for Guys with Jobexperience)
Im have in my Job here Computers thats worked with Windows 3.1 and the Programs writed from Guys thats long leaves the Company and take her Experience with out of the Company , now not one Enginneer can write new Programms for modern systems and the Company not found other guys for it, and all hopes thats the Computers not crashed before the product Line ended.
Folks with experience a rare to find ,and have her Price and her own Difficult spirit, like modern Alchimists of technology.

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 05 March 2019 - 03:29 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Horseman, on 04 March 2019 - 06:38 AM, said:

Do you?

yes ...
for Starcraft 2...many for MW4 (the Time who im used Heightmaps ) and a little for own Projects in Star Wars Battlefront 2 and experimentation in Ark for a Prehistoric Mod thats canceled, and many Tools thats im testing like the Tools for UT4 ...most im forget in the 30 Years of my Gaming History..never played Quake or Crysis (only MWLL)

Horseman, on 04 March 2019 - 06:38 AM, said:

Unless the textures, sounds etc were licensed from a third party (which is quite common) under terms that prohibit redistribution of the texture itself (again not uncommon).

Yes Sounds a own Tale, and it gives free Soundfiles for use without Problems ,and thats more a problem by Mods as for mapping

Horseman, on 04 March 2019 - 06:38 AM, said:

... or if you deliberately recreate contents of a third party IP using the existing assets (users can be very creative). Every inch of every map would have to be checked.

Tell me news

Quote

Just because they have that in their EULA does not automatically make it legally enforceable, and laws in individual countries may affect it (for example, the funny notion of a creator retaining "moral rights" to the work in question and being unable to waive those).

Yes , when you it not only Make for own Proud and Fun thats its a problem, and better make it as job for money and we difficult is it to make Mods for Money we can see in the Nexus mod Distasters for Skyrim.
Here we read over Mapping for a Longer live to MWO and Variations ...not semiprofessionell modding or Buyable Mappacks from teh Community

Quote

Sounds like you're agreeing with him there...

short Statements with
yes first, im it sounded like Short Statements represent the mapmaking as a mystical creation act that only a few elitist saints understand thats only Companys gus can make ... mapmaking is also just a learning process and not too difficult if the understands the problems of the different engines or seek help (there are enough Moddingcommunitys) and by using the Library (good designed) Assets a very simple Action in mWO without AI and Campaign or great Mission Scripts..its a set the Assets in 3D terrain and not to many Objects and Effects while Problems with performance.
By the way, I'm still working semi-professionally with Poser 7 (later buing versions for me not so good in UI),DAZ3d,Terragen and Vue 7 until 2015, in relation to Paleoart, and have some courses related to 3D art, animation and texturing behind me, and work in Moment for new Bookillustrations.

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 05 March 2019 - 03:22 AM.