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"skill Tree" Thoughts


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#1 Greyhart

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 05:20 AM

I can generally say the current skill tree is an improvement over the previous one. However, it is still a bad experience. I can never get over the resentment I feel having to spend points to unlock effectively pointless skills.

Also it doesn't address the question of why would I come back to a mech once all skilled up?

So how to make a system that works on improving the mech and gives depth that brings you back to play that maxed out mech again?

So this idea occurs to me:

The idea of the skill tree is that it is tweaks to a mech by engineers rather than direct upgrades.

Instead of tweaking the mech as a whole why doesn't it treat the equipment on a mech like equipment and armour in a standard RPG. You know where you improve the sword by putting a rune of speed on it to increase the swing speed.

So with each weapon hard point (or equipped weapon) on the mech would have its own small simple skill tree. This would allow you to adjust cooldown times, range etc for each individual weapon on the mech.

So you could have say 5 skill points spendable in a laser hard point. That hardpoint has 3 channels with 3 tiers (9 skills altogether). Say Beam duration, cooldown and heat. you could max out one and then have 2 skill points to place in the other 2.

This would allow for people to increase the range of small laser but not large laser if they so wished.

I've outlined the simple version for laser but for things like ballistics you can have larger trees to cover the variety of weapons. So a hardpoint could have an upgrade path for gauss rifle or jam chance etc.

It would also have the advantage of showing the relevant stats for that weapon on that mech.

Things like twist speed, armour, internal structure, sensors, speed would also be tweakable by the same sort of system.

Assuming a set number of skill points per mech this would mean that mechs with less hardpoints would have a potential advantage over boating loads of weapons as the more hardpoints the more slots to spend those skill points in and therefore the thinner the spread.

The system helps new players because it would focus in on an aspect of the mech would present on opportunity for the stats surrounding that part of the mech to be explained and expanded on.

As for long term. Once skill points are maxed out you of course would have the respec costs. But i would also suggest an ability to dump the XP into an increase c-bill reward skill tree, which would be unlocked on mastery and be very very expensive and provide a max of say 20% increase.

So in short the skill tree should be broken down into individual components rather than one big mess as it is now.

PS

Yes I know we won't get any changes, the game is in maintenance mode.
Yes I know we aren't going to see a new online mechwarrior anytime soon and that if PGI were to do it they'd not be any good.

Edited by Greyhart, 26 February 2019 - 05:23 AM.


#2 Racerxintegra2k

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 05:24 AM

skill tree is a boring grind, with few exceptions all the skill nodes are predetermined at this point. Its literally just a 3 mech grind into 1.

#3 Bombast

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 05:32 AM

This seems to make the Skill Tree more convoluted and bloated, not less. It also serves to further pigeon hole mechs.

Don't like it.

#4 Bud Crue

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 05:51 AM

At this point, PGI is not going to change the skill tree in any major way. Historically, they did a fairly substantive rearrangement following the original PTS, and have added little tweeks here and there to adjust values a bit, but no major change, regardless of community support is going to be applied to the thing probably ever, and certainly not until MW5 is out.

As to the points raised by the OP, one that stuck me is the whole ‘why come back to a mech once its skilled’ thing. Old system or new, the obvious answer to me anyway is, because now that it is skilled, it’s worth playing and at least more fun to play. I didn’t mind the grind under the rule of three, but now I ****ing hate it. It is one of the reasons I stopped buying new mechs, and especially those that clearly have little meta potential or value in the game as I play it. I have a lot of mechs and given the way the game is played these days (most matches seem to be high DPS mid-range trading that typically devolves into a NASCAR and only occasionally a straight up brawl) I consistently play like 8 mechs. Why grind more, be it under the new system or the old?

Edited by Bud Crue, 26 February 2019 - 05:52 AM.


#5 Grus

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 06:10 AM

So you want a bigger skill maze... no.

#6 Daggett

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 06:46 AM

View PostGreyhart, on 26 February 2019 - 05:20 AM, said:

Also it doesn't address the question of why would I come back to a mech once all skilled up?

Well personally i come back to a fully skilled mech simply because it's fun to play. Intrinsic motivation FTW! Posted Image

If a mech needs extrinsic motivation like your cbill-reward tree then it's either bad in general or does not work for you. And in both cases you will still not come back, because you can use that cbill-reward tree with your favorite mechs too.

#7 LDTorroc

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 07:18 AM

I honistly thing we need another 20-30 skill points to be able to spread out over our skills.

#8 Phoenix 72

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 10:18 AM

View PostGreyhart, on 26 February 2019 - 05:20 AM, said:

Also it doesn't address the question of why would I come back to a mech once all skilled up?


I am confused over that statement... Most of my favourite Mechs are skilled. If I do have unskilled Mechs, I try to get my win of the day for double exp and then move on to play mastered Mechs, only. Heck, I have two accounts, on one I only play mastered Mechs... All the unmastered ones were giveaways I do not care about...

#9 MechaBattler

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 10:52 AM

I don't think they wanted the skill tree to be fun. I think they wanted a c-bill/time sink you couldn't get around. You come back to a mech because you have fun with it and it's builds. Or because it suits your aesthetic. But it's not for the skill grind. And I doubt they could actually make it fun without a serious reworking to make each choice more rewarding and meaningful beyond a stat increase.

It could certainly be improved upon. But it's unlikely PGI will want to any major rework on it.

#10 Angel of Annihilation

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 01:38 PM

View PostDarakor Stormwind, on 26 February 2019 - 10:18 AM, said:


I am confused over that statement... Most of my favourite Mechs are skilled. If I do have unskilled Mechs, I try to get my win of the day for double exp and then move on to play mastered Mechs, only. Heck, I have two accounts, on one I only play mastered Mechs... All the unmastered ones were giveaways I do not care about...


I think I know what he is getting at. I don't know if his issue mirrors mind and I kind of think it probably doesn't but for my part I have 252 mechs at present and only about maybe 3/4 of them are at 91 points. For myself anyway, I always feel like I am wasting time if I am playing a Mastered mech so instead of playing my favorites, I find myself looking for the mechs I need XP for and focus on them. If there was some way for me to transfer my XP from one mech over to another that didn't cost a very unreasonable amount of MC, then I wouldn't have this issue.

#11 Redshirt4Life

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 01:45 PM

Why would you play a mech after skilling it?
Because you enjoy it?
Do we need another reason?

#12 Battlemaster56

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 01:51 PM

Tbh I just want the grind to be less, what I would do was for the first mech you master, your chassis will gain a 1.5x xp boost, then after that a 3x xp boost, and finally a 5x xp boost it promotes completely leveling that chassis, and reducing the grind over time and it's a plus when you go out and buy multiple variants of said chassis it won't be a pain in the arse.

It helps out peeps with little to no gxp, also won't wear out players who have who have a collection of mechs.

That's what I do for somewhat improving the maze.

Edited by Battlemaster56, 27 February 2019 - 09:40 AM.


#13 Ken Harkin

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 03:43 PM

I'm fine with the tree.

I prefer it greatly to playing two mechs I dislike in order to skill one I do.

The mechs I play most commonly are the ones which are skilled because they are my favorite.

I play because I am having fun, not because someone chained me to a chassis to grind.

#14 Shanrak

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 03:48 PM

I think they should make it so you can add locked skill nodes but it'll subtract a % of cbills from your winnings(up to 50% maybe) and all the xp your mech earns until all the nodes that need to be unlocked are paid for.

This way, no one has to play a gimped mech and the cbill sink remains.

Edited by Shanrak, 26 February 2019 - 03:49 PM.


#15 Bowelhacker

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 07:40 PM

Just about every MMORPG has some byzantine skill tree, but they tend towards specialisations. So why not have the MWO tree let you focus on much better buffs for things like agility or aim etc instead of more mechanical stuff or vise versa? Mechanic or ace pilot or all rounder and such.

#16 Asym

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 09:17 PM

I've always been of the opinion that mech should come fully combat armored, with fully and max out weapons and with full agility and speed.

I see the skill tree as "stuff to add" capabilities beyond fully combat ready. Why grind at all??? All that does is chase players off and polarize the skill base.....

#17 DaZur

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 09:27 PM

Problem with the skill tree is that it's largely a generic "boost"...

If trees were unique to each mech and or chassis and enhanced core nuisances it would be more interesting to sand-box in...

Right now I have four generic profiles that I can copy/paste into virtually any mech so long as it matches it's primary and secondary weaponry load-outs.

Meh.

Edited by Lone Rook, 26 February 2019 - 09:27 PM.


#18 Phoenix 72

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 10:42 PM

View PostAngel of Annihilation, on 26 February 2019 - 01:38 PM, said:


For myself anyway, I always feel like I am wasting time if I am playing a Mastered mech so instead of playing my favorites, I find myself looking for the mechs I need XP for and focus on them.


Well, I do that with Mechs that I feel I may eventually need for something, down the line. I finished skilling a few Assaults, despite not enjoying playing them, just in case I needed them for some ingame challenges. Same goes for Light Mechs.

When I only had a few Mechs, I felt more of a need to skill up all of them. I currently have 40+, so that urge has gone away. I have a number which I will never really touch, after trying them out for a few games, of course. But if I was underwhelmed with the Mech in question, it's just not worth the effort to finish skilling.

I will just play what I enjoy, which currently is my Black Widow for Heavies, almost exclusively. I am however, also skilling some Troll builds. ;-) I have an LRM 40 Cougar that is kinda fun to play, but due to the nature of LRMs really hit and miss. And not skilled.

#19 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 12:19 AM

Rather than skill trees, the game should revolve around the gear.

An XL engine should be the heaviest but it should also affect the torso speed.

A Standard engine should be the lightest but doesn't affect anything beyond freeing up the tonnage.

LFE is the in-between but can survive losing a ST, albeit affecting the torso speed a little compared to what it was when both sides were intact.

Remove the skill tree and make the gear do things like that. Just a thought.

#20 Prototelis

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 12:43 AM

^wut





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