55 replies to this topic

[BlueStrat]

I believe the reason ATMs don't "feel" as powerful is because the largest ATM only fires 12 missiles and results in just 12 explosions on the target, whereas most players equip an LRM-15 or 20 (or the equivalent with multiple launchers) or more.

So, an LRM 15 will *appear* to be causing mire damage (more visible launches/explosions), but the ATM 12 actually does more damage with less visual pyrotechnics.

Human perception can be a strange beast.

[LT. HARDCASE]

ATMs could definitely use more visceral feedback. I can have my completely fresh medium stripped to the bones by a quad ATM9 or ATM12 boat, but it feels like cotton balls.

[Kubernetes]

If I'm getting hit by ATMS I assume they're doing 2 or 3 damage and try to break lock. Is there really any scenario where you're getting hit (by anything) and you say "Well, visually it doesn't seem like it's hurting too bad"? Really? What do y'all do when you get hit by Clan heavy laser vomit? Does the lack of big explosions deceive you into thinking it's just a scratch?

[Khobai]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 05 March 2019 - 03:35 AM, said:

I agree that blinding and shaking is an issue but getting melted for 150 damage in one volley

yep I agree its an issue. if youre already taking 150 damage you dont need to be blinded/screenshaked too.

just because you take high amounts of damage doesnt mean you should be blinded more or suffer more screenshake too. thats idiotic and just compounds the problem. because now you have an ultra high damage weapon that also blinds/stunlocks.

Conversely if ATMs did LESS damage then you could potentially increase the screenshake. But leaving the damage as absurd as it is and also giving them better blinding/stunlock is totally absurd. !@#$ that.

Its my opinion that ATMs do way too much damage as is. Buffing them any more in the 120-270 range is out of the question. If you buff them in any way you have to nerf them some other way.

For example id be okay with ATMs doing less damage in the 120-270 bracket, having their dumb 120m deadzone removed entirely or changed to linear dropoff, and then also increasing their missile health and screenshake. That makes far more sense to me and makes the weapon more like it should be.

as for increasing explosion sizes. im against the idea because being blinded by explosions while also getting screenshaked is simply not fun. And thats the kindve garbage that makes new players instantly quit the game.

Edited by Khobai, 05 March 2019 - 01:04 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 05 March 2019 - 12:45 PM, said:

yep I agree its an issue. if youre already taking 150 damage you dont need to be blinded/screenshaked too.

just because you take high amounts of damage doesnt mean you should be blinded more or suffer more screenshake too. thats idiotic and just compounds the problem. because now you have an ultra high damage weapon that also blinds/stunlocks.

Conversely if ATMs did LESS damage then you could potentially increase the screenshake. But leaving the damage as absurd as it is and also giving them better blinding/stunlock is totally absurd. !@#$ that.

(just spam)

as for increasing explosion sizes. im against the idea because being blinded by explosions while also getting screenshaked is simply not fun. And thats the kindve garbage that makes new players instantly quit the game.

Lol k.

I didn't know what getting hit by the enemy was supposed to be fun.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

The6thMessenger, on 05 March 2019 - 02:55 PM, said:

Lol k.

I didn't know what getting hit by the enemy was supposed to be fun.

Experience sound and visual effects should always be fun, it's an essential part of the game.
Whenever you shoot someone, someone is obviously getting shot at.

[The6thMessenger]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 07 March 2019 - 09:02 AM, said:

Experience sound and visual effects should always be fun, it's an essential part of the game.
Whenever you shoot someone, someone is obviously getting shot at.

Well yeah. Fun for the shooter.

The one being shot at though, so what if it's blinding?

Am I supposed to say:

"YAAAY I'M BEING SHOT AT!!!!!11111"

Edited by The6thMessenger, 07 March 2019 - 03:21 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

justcallme A S H, on 04 March 2019 - 12:46 PM, said:

So on top...

• The minimap
  
• The vision outside your cockpit
  
• Reticule

All of which give you an excellent indicator of distance.



And in addition to

• Incoming missile warning

You want a 5th notification for when a specific weapon is doing a specific amount of damage?




The thread just keeps getting better.

It would actually be nice to get different cockpit sounds and different damage indicator sizes depending on the amount of damage you are taking. You don't always get to see who is shooting you and what he's shooting you with, and it would be nice to know which enemies are safe to ignore and what need to be dealt with ASAP without having to glance at the paperdoll every time you take damage. Lasers all sound the same when they hit you, regardless of strength, number, and range.

ATMs should also get different explosion effects and sounds depending on what damage they're doing. Right now they sound the same as LRMs. I'd like some more visual feedback on whether I really rocked an enemy with an ATM salvo, or if he really rocked me.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 07 March 2019 - 05:17 PM.

[- World Eater -]

The6thMessenger, on 07 March 2019 - 03:16 PM, said:

Well yeah. Fun for the shooter.

The one being shot at though, so what if it's blinding?

Am I supposed to say:

"YAAAY I'M BEING SHOT AT!!!!!11111"

Then move out of the way?

[The6thMessenger]

- World Eater -, on 07 March 2019 - 05:25 PM, said:

Then move out of the way?

Exactly.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

The6thMessenger, on 07 March 2019 - 03:16 PM, said:

Well yeah. Fun for the shooter.

The one being shot at though, so what if it's blinding?

Am I supposed to say:

"YAAAY I'M BEING SHOT AT!!!!!11111"

Getting shot at should be a fun to experience part of the game, especially because it is essential to the game.
It can and should be done in multiple ways. It should be cinematic (believable sound effects and believable good looking visual effects) it also should give you direct feedback as to what happens/happend (getting hit by gauss is a good example).
Getting shot at should immerse you in the situation.

Blinding is an issue for many. I'd say it's not very pleaseant and it also doesn't add much to the experience because, well, you can't see much 'uz of blinding.

A very cool feature was the old ammo explosion mechanic, remember that? When you could hear the ammo going off slowly?
Check this from closed beta, at around 5:00 that's how feedback should work (and mwo is kind of in a regression in that regards). The pilot is getting hit by a gauss, he gets specific "you got hit by guass" feedback in from of cockpit shake, gauss hit soundfile and some sparks for good messure. That is direct feedback. Ammo goes off, starts cooking also with specific soundfile and behavior.
All in all it is very understandable what is happening because there is direct and clear feedback. It is much easier to understand what is happening because of that.



For some it's all about stats and winning (stat warriors). Personally, for me it's the experience. I am totally okay with loosing a fight, if the overall experience as a pleasant experience (rompy stompy robot game). Doesn't means i don't like to win, i do obviously.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 08 March 2019 - 04:50 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 08 March 2019 - 04:41 AM, said:

Getting shot at should be a fun to experience part of the game, especially because it is essential to the game.
It can and should be done in multiple ways. It should be cinematic (believable sound effects and believable good looking visual effects) it also should give you direct feedback as to what happens/happend (getting hit by gauss is a good example).
Getting shot at should immerse you in the situation.

Blinding is an issue for many. I'd say it's not very pleaseant and it also doesn't add much to the experience because, well, you can't see much 'uz of blinding.

Again, not supposed to be pleasant. You want immersion? Well larger missile should have larger boom. That's not hard to understand.

And if it's blinding you, wouldn't it make sense that if you're under fire, you should crawl back behind your cover so you won't get blinded?

[B L O O D W I T C H]

The6thMessenger, on 08 March 2019 - 05:03 AM, said:

Again, not supposed to be pleasant. You want immersion? Well larger missile should have larger boom. That's not hard to understand.

And if it's blinding you, wouldn't it make sense that if you're under fire, you should crawl back behind your cover so you won't get blinded?

We're talking past each other here.
Of course you want to avoid getting shot at, that's a given.
What i mean is that the overall experience should be a pleasant one, regardless of shooting someone or getting shot by someone.
This includes the audio and visual presentation since that is how you experience it.
It should be sort of clear what is happening, if you don't know what is going on, chances are you don't understand what is happening.
The game does this well in some aspects, and bad in others.
Did i got hit by a ballistic? Did it sound like a gauss or was there an explosion? How was the headshake? What was the impact interval? Was it consistant or burst? You can sort of tell what hit you.

Did i got hit by missiles? was there a missile warning? one big impact or a stream of impacts? Here is the crux, you simply can't really tell if you got hit by clan lrm or clan atm. Did you got hit by an clan lrm 10 for 10 damage or a clan atm 9 for 28? Was that 2 clan lrm 20 for 40 damage or a clan 48 atm for 144 damage?

[The6thMessenger]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 08 March 2019 - 06:00 AM, said:

We're talking past each other here.
Of course you want to avoid getting shot at, that's a given.
What i mean is that the overall experience should be a pleasant one, regardless of shooting someone or getting shot by someone.
This includes the audio and visual presentation since that is how you experience it.
It should be sort of clear what is happening, if you don't know what is going on, chances are you don't understand what is happening.
The game does this well in some aspects, and bad in others.
Did i got hit by a ballistic? Did it sound like a gauss or was there an explosion? How was the headshake? What was the impact interval? Was it consistant or burst? You can sort of tell what hit you.

Did i got hit by missiles? was there a missile warning? one big impact or a stream of impacts? Here is the crux, you simply can't really tell if you got hit by clan lrm or clan atm. Did you got hit by an clan lrm 10 for 10 damage or a clan atm 9 for 28? Was that 2 clan lrm 20 for 40 damage or a clan 48 atm for 144 damage?

I get that.

And what I am telling you is that, being blinding to the enemy isn't relevant.

[Tordin]

Careful now about praising or hoping ATM will get better. They might end up in the same hate bucket, stigma and scapegoating paddock that the LRM's are in. The brickheads that wont adapt and butch about it wont ever accept lurms even if they for some wicked reason become L33T competent in competive play. Need something to hate.
So better hope those ATM will be supernerfed or the weed will jump on the hatetrain for them too, even if theres no reasont to due to the pilots incompetence.
Hope PGI removes "incoming missiles" warning, that will make a helluva salt overdose

[Grus]

I had a basic Vapor-eagle gifted to me recently, so I had to give the atm36 a try. SO NO SKILLS in missles yet... but it really doesn't seem to hit very hard. I'll update as I grind it up.