16 replies to this topic

[KursedVixen]

I think it's long past time to balance IS mechs more in line with clan spefically the health disparity between components.

For example]Warning Image heavy!

Double heat sinks:




Active probes




Er Medium Lasers




ERPPC




There are more than this the only thing I see even in health values are the engines all other components have a huge health disparity between the two sides

wonder why your clan guass blow up more than inner sphere guass.

IS guass 10 Hp

Clan guass; 5hp

Now I don't propose making all the components on both sides be equal but have a smaller health disparity.....

Edited by KursedVixen, 04 March 2019 - 11:07 AM.

[mezz44]

Would kinda be nice to have a little more health on clan gauss, then I probably would use it more on mechs like the blood asp that are known for it whereas with gauss in it now you basically are telling a light “look here easy kill” with all the mg spam that is going around with lynx’s pir’s and fleas. The moment they touch you instant st detonation.

[KursedVixen]

yeah I know clan guass is the worst weapon to carry because it's low low hp is basically telling people SHOOT ME! it's got the lowest Hp of any clan ballstic....plus the explosion, your better off carrying a medium laser which has the same health but doesn't explode.

and Mg's are particuallry deadly to clan mechs due to their lower component HP aside from the engine....

personally i don't care how this is balanced weather it be lowering IS component health or increasing Clan component health as long as this stupidly high disparity is fixed to a MUCH lower disparity.

Also on a side note I thought clan FF was suppose to provide 20% more protection per ton vs standard armor......

Edited by KursedVixen, 04 March 2019 - 11:05 AM.

[mezz44]

The protection per ton is referring to the tonnage used for armor, meaning its 20% lighter in weight compared to standard.

[KursedVixen]

seemed the other way around..

[LDTorroc]

Here is this thing man, the reason why the clan component health is so low is the materials they were made out of. Even in TT and PP, the clan components had low health to balance out for their lower weight.

[KursedVixen]

But was it that huge of a disparity? Clan Double heatsinks use to be 5 Hp...

and if clan materials were so much more brittle how did the clans cut a path through the inner sphere during the invasion? things don't add up.

Edited by KursedVixen, 05 March 2019 - 02:52 PM.

[Smutty]

Tabletop doesn't have health values for weaponry or equipment. At least, not explicitly. As far as the normal rules go however, a crit to any critical slot of a piece of gear renders it inoperative for the rest of the scenario. Only engines, gyros, sensors, and life support equipment can continue to function in reduced capacity after a critical hit. Dunno where you got the idea that equipment has some kind of health pool exclusive to the component it's mounted in

As far as lore impacting MWO goes, please, for the love of God and country, leave your lore notions at the door when discussing MWO's balance. MWO is and always has been an arcade-style shooter with very few simulator aspects (even counting the days of R/R). You cannot and should not expect equipment, Mechs, weapons, or anything beyond the physical tonnage and size of gear to be lore-accurate. A lore-accurate MWO would be exceedingly dull and playing IS would be nearly impossible

Right now Clantech is more fragile than IS tech to make up for Clantech's light and compact nature. I would like to see some buffs to Clantech equipment health but I don't have any specific numbers in mind. PGI currently operates under the idea that IS is focused on durability and Clans are focused on firepower, at the cost of their opposite values. While functionally fine, some tweaks would be welcome to keep Clans a little more competitive in the late game, particularly since few Clan Mechs get as much armour as an equivalent IS Mech, which leads to components opening up sooner and a higher chance to eat crippling critical hits

[KursedVixen]

The Mayor of Smuttington, on 06 March 2019 - 09:48 AM, said:

Tabletop doesn't have health values for weaponry or equipment. At least, not explicitly. As far as the normal rules go however, a crit to any critical slot of a piece of gear renders it inoperative for the rest of the scenario. Only engines, gyros, sensors, and life support equipment can continue to function in reduced capacity after a critical hit. Dunno where you got the idea that equipment has some kind of health pool exclusive to the component it's mounted in

As far as lore impacting MWO goes, please, for the love of God and country, leave your lore notions at the door when discussing MWO's balance. MWO is and always has been an arcade-style shooter with very few simulator aspects (even counting the days of R/R). You cannot and should not expect equipment, Mechs, weapons, or anything beyond the physical tonnage and size of gear to be lore-accurate. A lore-accurate MWO would be exceedingly dull and playing IS would be nearly impossible

Right now Clantech is more fragile than IS tech to make up for Clantech's light and compact nature. I would like to see some buffs to Clantech equipment health but I don't have any specific numbers in mind. PGI currently operates under the idea that IS is focused on durability and Clans are focused on firepower, at the cost of their opposite values. While functionally fine, some tweaks would be welcome to keep Clans a little more competitive in the late game, particularly since few Clan Mechs get as much armour as an equivalent IS Mech, which leads to components opening up sooner and a higher chance to eat crippling critical hits

That is all i'm asking for and I have some numbers in mind to at least narrow the disparity... for example the clan double heat sink use to be 5 hp... I think buffing the clan heat sink back to 5 and dropping the inner sphere double heat sink to 7 would be a good idea... this limits the disparity and isn't a giant nerf or buff to either side.... As for other weapons i'm not sure just yet ,but I do know that the clan guass needs some love or something it's health is way too low, guass rifles in lore are one of the few things that differ little between the IS and Clan so i think they should both have 10hp, but that's just my guess for the guass.

[KursedVixen]

-poke-

[KursedVixen]

-poke-poke-

[Y E O N N E]

TBQH, we just need cGauss to not explode 100% of the time when crit. The rest of it is basically immaterial because there are way more DHS per Clan 'Mech and because both sides' stuff evaporates almost instantaneously once the MG crits start rolling in anyway.

[KursedVixen]

Clan double heat sinks use to be 5 Hp, that can make a huge diffrence.

[Y E O N N E]

In my experience, it makes no difference. By the time you've lost a non-trivial number of DHS, you've lost that torso or limb component anyway. Can't remember ever getting my DHS all critted out without also losing the torso side and all the weapons with it. The HP amount for both sides is so low that the crit damage from ACs and PPCs just nukes them regardless.

[KursedVixen]

Y E O N N E, on 25 March 2019 - 10:42 PM, said:

In my experience, it makes no difference. By the time you've lost a non-trivial number of DHS, you've lost that torso or limb component anyway. Can't remember ever getting my DHS all critted out without also losing the torso side and all the weapons with it. The HP amount for both sides is so low that the crit damage from ACs and PPCs just nukes them regardless.

you realize IS heat sinks are 7.5 hp? that's at least 3Xac2's..... while a clan double heat sink is only 4 which is a clan small laser or even one IS medium laser. big diffrence.

Edited by KursedVixen, 26 March 2019 - 12:54 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

The bigger the up-front damage, the bigger the crit damage. There are 1x, 2x, and 3x multipliers for crit damage. A roll of 2x from a single 5-damage slug (isAC/5, isUAC/5, isUAC/10, cUAC20, LPPC) or a 3x from a single 2.5-3.33 damage shell (cUAC/5 and cUAC/10) will destroy an IS DHS at 7.5 HP. A single 1x roll from isAC/10, any Gauss, or any full-size PPC will also kill an IS DHS (Gauss weapons cannot score 2x or 3x crits).

Lasers deal damage in ticks, and you need more than one tick to roll a crit to kill any components even if one tick rolls a 3x crit, which is why lasers do not crit things as often as PPFLD weapons.

Clan DHS are only more susceptible to a lower crit roll, basically, but it doesn't matter because structure takes extra damage, too, when a crit is rolled on equipment. That's why you will always lose your side before everything in it if what's critting you is anything other than tiny damage MGs, and even MGs often take the torso first if it's stacked with lasers and DHS and only do a clean out if there only two or three things in that torso (e.g. AC/10s, Gauss, HGauss, AC/20, etc.).

You can stamp your feet all you want over it, but you are not actually experiencing any significant DHS gutting and it's just not a problem that exists; a Clan 'Mech with cXL and 2x ERLL in a side willl have slots for 20 HP worth of DHS, 5 HP more than an IS 'Mech with an LFE and 2x ERLL.The real problem is Clan Gauss exploding 100% of the time on a crit and having only 5 HP to begin. That needs to get fixed, makes 'Mechs running cGauss in a side torso into Piranha food. Additionally, the big guns for both sides are too easily crit; even the IS AC and LB-20X with their 25 HP are evaporating immediately on an armor breach because the chance to hit them is so high (10/12 and 11/12, respectivley).

Edited by Y E O N N E, 26 March 2019 - 02:06 PM.

[KursedVixen]

Do you have a license for that?