16 replies to this topic

[Starquestman]

I've been playing MWO off and on (Life's busy!) since beta. Honestly, y'all complain too much. This game is lit.
Even for game modes and maps we don't prefer, hey, it's combat - having a challenge you dread is part of the experience!

Anyway, the burning question I have had the entire time is Campaign. When will we see one... and, most importantly, WILL IT BE GOOD?

I've seen just trickles of info about MW5 and glanced at a couple videos of it. Looks promising! Is this fully under PGI development? Are the mechanics and everything borrowed straight from MWO, or is there a lot of redesign for balance sake?

And what will we have for storyline? In my opinion, from the many games I've played, and from all the myriad other art forms I've payed attention too (Books, TV shows, movies, comics, other games), the most important aspect is a good story. A story is what captivates people. Developing rich characters players can feel invested in, and story moments they can feel attached to. And it MUST be free of fluff and sidequests designed to pad runtime. Sure, it's the cheap way to develop a campaign, but it's insulting to players and off-putting. Contrarily, a game may have lackluster balance, poor graphics, and glitchy game play, but if the story is absolutely stellar, people will cling to it.

Now, I know Mechwarrior and the Battletech universe are an incredibly niche ground to venture game development into. Today's players want the instant-action instant-gratification of FPSers like COD and Fortnite and all that. But I don't think that should mean sacrificing a good campaign. In my opinion, the exact same mechanics from MWO could be cut-and-pasted into a campaign mode that, with a good STORY, would be engaging enough to keep the few Mechwarriors we HAVE playing (and paying!) for a long time.

Hire a few good voice actors, one good story writer, whip up a few custom maps, and you've got a serious start. (Side note - if y'all are casting any voice acts right now, where do I audition?? I've got my own recording studio and can do all the recording from home! Plus I got music!! Working on a MW project would be a dream! Anyway)

A campaign is like a book. If you don't go all out on the story, you'll be left with an audience complaining about the font and the texture of the pages. So what's the future for a MW campaign?

[El Bandito]

As much as I want it to succeed, I will still not pre-order it. No pre-orders, no exceptions.

[JediPanther]

Mw5 is all pgi. You can find a mw5 video thread under the battletech sub thread. There's a few videos on youtube of mw5 stuff which is pretty meh unless you want to see re-used mwo mech fighting poor ai assets. Given how bad pgi has handled mwo the past six (four of actual development since mw5 anouncement?) years I have very little expectations of mw5 being great.

The facts that prove to me pgi has already screwed up are:
1. doubled their pre-order bonus for one game which is different than the game you are pre-ordering;get a ton of fake money for mwo instead of stuff for mw5.
2. Pay for access to their discord,amas, and any real info for mw5 instead of pgi making dedicated web sites,trailers,forurms,email letters, for the new game etc.
3. Mwo had only the xmas freebie mechs at the mechcon 2018 and nothing else after four months of silence leading up to it with people wanting to know about mwo topics. A direct question put to pgi of mwo's support and planed life span after 2020 license renewal being ignored.
4. Claim of full mod support on steam but no hard evidence. This is mw5's only and major selling point to me if I buy it after release. Many are hoping pgi comes through with this planning to mod in things like quads and land-air-mechs.
5. Pgi's past development history prior to mwo as a whole is poor.
6. Mech lab will be severely restricted with what little info we have about it so if you love mwo 's mech lab or past mw mech labs' degree of freedom in your builds,well, they go bye bye now.

Pgi largely puts graphics and mech eye candy above all else. It takes more than good graphics to make a great game. I grew up in the C64 era. I love stories in my games, the graphic improvements since then are great but stoy telling has been hit or miss for a long time.

[Grus]

El Bandito, on 16 March 2019 - 06:17 AM, said:

As much as I want it to succeed, I will still not pre-order it. No pre-orders, no exceptions.

Same, I do REALLY want this new game to be a big hit... bit again.. PGI...

[Kyrie]

Given the way "Community Warfare" was handled, I am not optimistic.

[Starquestman]

Man... You know what we need?
MW4 Mercenaries Combat Evolved.

Like, seriously, take that exact game, all the soundbites and campaign trees and economy and balance, and just let PGI redo ONLY the graphics. IMO that would be a perfect solution. Get a solid campaign, great story mode, but MWO graphics on the mechs and maps. If that's what PGI is good at, then all it is is a matter of licensing.

I'ma say it - get a visual remake of MW4 and I'd buy it.

[Koniving]

Starquestman, on 16 March 2019 - 03:53 AM, said:

I've been playing MWO off and on (Life's busy!) since beta. Honestly, y'all complain too much. This game is lit.
Even for game modes and maps we don't prefer, hey, it's combat - having a challenge you dread is part of the experience!

Anyway, the burning question I have had the entire time is Campaign. When will we see one... and, most importantly, WILL IT BE GOOD?

No idea.

Quote

I've seen just trickles of info about MW5 and glanced at a couple videos of it. Looks promising! Is this fully under PGI development? Are the mechanics and everything borrowed straight from MWO, or is there a lot of redesign for balance sake?

Uncertain. What we do know so far is that a lot of weapons have "variants." So while the AC/5 on the SHK still has absolutely nothing to do with the lore version... it shoots a single shot, while the Mydron model C and D autocannons (the C being the AC/5s) apparently expel shells out the side at a rate that would make MWO's RAC/5 choke in shame. I'm assuming that those shells do less damage per shell.

And we know its not MGs, as apparently you can only replace AC/5s with AC/5s, etc.

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And what will we have for storyline? In my opinion, from the many games I've played, and from all the myriad other art forms I've payed attention too (Books, TV shows, movies, comics, other games), the most important aspect is a good story. A story is what captivates people. Developing rich characters players can feel invested in, and story moments they can feel attached to. And it MUST be free of fluff and sidequests designed to pad runtime. Sure, it's the cheap way to develop a campaign, but it's insulting to players and off-putting. Contrarily, a game may have lackluster balance, poor graphics, and glitchy game play, but if the story is absolutely stellar, people will cling to it.

Played HBS Battletech?
Expect something similar. You're a merc. Your family died and you were left with the family business. Now go make money and get revenge...for yourself, at least, rather than for someone else. Or maybe you still have to get revenge for someone else? We don't know for sure yet.

Quote

Now, I know Mechwarrior and the Battletech universe are an incredibly niche ground to venture game development into. Today's players want the instant-action instant-gratification of FPSers like COD and Fortnite and all that. But I don't think that should mean sacrificing a good campaign. In my opinion, the exact same mechanics from MWO could be cut-and-pasted into a campaign mode that, with a good STORY, would be engaging enough to keep the few Mechwarriors we HAVE playing (and paying!) for a long time.

Far as I seen, the "arm" reticule doesn't appear to work but it could just be locked for Russ's joysticks in the most recent video I saw.
I hope it was. I would be pissed if we didn't have a functioning separate arm-aiming mechanic. Its one of the only mechanics from MWO I really enjoy.

Beyond that...am hoping for knockdowns.

Quote

Hire a few good voice actors, one good story writer, whip up a few custom maps, and you've got a serious start. (Side note - if y'all are casting any voice acts right now, where do I audition?? I've got my own recording studio and can do all the recording from home! Plus I got music!! Working on a MW project would be a dream! Anyway)

They pretty much did that.
And I don't think they need more. To my disappointment I was told they didn't even contact George Ledoux (by George Ledoux also sorry if I butchered your name bud), which tells me we won't be going to Solaris any time soon.

I heard that Tina has a voice in there, and I know for certain BBWolfe has a voice in there (to hear that voice, go into faction play in MWO and hit eject; that's BBWolfe).

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A campaign is like a book. If you don't go all out on the story, you'll be left with an audience complaining about the font and the texture of the pages. So what's the future for a MW campaign?

I wouldn't expect a "big" story. Its not a full on Mechwarrior. Akin to MW1, HBS Battletech, MW2 Mercs, MW (SNES, it basically is a mercs game before mercs), and MW4 Mercs.... its more of a sandbox with a story connecting some key events for a start and a finish.

I know originally it was 3015 to 3049..
Kept hearing it was changed around so not sure what time zone it is now. It ending in 3049 tells me one thing, between the date and the very first "tease" gameplay... it'll conclude when the Clans make a landing.

[kuma8877]

Yes, the arm reticule was locked for joysticks. On the non-pod builds, on M/K it was normal for long term players of MWO.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Koniving, on 16 March 2019 - 09:26 PM, said:

I wouldn't expect a "big" story. Its not a full on Mechwarrior. Akin to MW1, HBS Battletech, MW2 Mercs, MW (SNES, it basically is a mercs game before mercs), and MW4 Mercs.... its more of a sandbox with a story connecting some key events for a start and a finish.

MW SNES is just a weird port of Mechwarrior 1 to the SNES, Mechwarrior 1 for DOS was basically mercs as well.

[Koniving]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 17 March 2019 - 08:15 AM, said:

MW SNES is just a weird port of Mechwarrior 1 to the SNES, Mechwarrior 1 for DOS was basically mercs as well.

Pretty much. Although the game is basically the same, the story and layout changed a fair bit. Rather than just a bar, you got a base with a lounge and numerous people to talk to in a "Wing Commander-esque" setup.. so while its effectively a port using 2D graphics instead of poor 3D...a different story makes it new enough. But yes both are basically "mercs" designs.

Been playing through both though its a bit of a struggle to run the original (so many issues because my computer wants to throttle and I can't keep it consistent and locked). The SNES version's more of a struggle due to unintuitive controls.

--------

Spoiler

Plus I can't really identify anything; the Locust looks like a Jenner and a Flea met up in a bar only for things to stop part way for the Cicada to have a turn at it.
PC


SNES (in the health display at bottom)

Ultimately the core badguys are the same and the areas are similar, but each follows the story of a different mechwarrior.

Although... SNES Mechwarrior is a bit of a prototype concept which is expanded on by Dynamix, which shifted from being a Mechwarrior game to...
...Metaltech and Earthsiege/Starsiege..
Familiar?

Earthsiege was MW2 -- the salvaged and rebranded work of Dynamix after FASA decided to work with Activision's crew. After changing a number of things and writing up their own story (IS = human empire, Clans = Cybrids), they released it in 1994 and their own Metaltech game earlier in the same year.

1995, MW2 from Activision came out.

Earthsiege continued in Earthsiege 2, and came out in 1996.


Then MW3 came out in 1999, as did Starsiege. And then Dynamix finally got over being ditched and shifted to Starsiege tribes, entering a different market.



Really enjoy both.
Though I think if the Starsiege guys continued with another mech game, something cool might've happened...
Also Dynamix beat FASA in doing a top-down in the 90s.. Sadly some things shouldn't be rushed.
Missionforce Cyberstorm
MechCommander

Edited by Koniving, 17 March 2019 - 05:01 PM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Starquestman, on 16 March 2019 - 03:53 AM, said:

I've been playing MWO off and on (Life's busy!) since beta. Honestly, y'all complain too much. This game is lit.
Even for game modes and maps we don't prefer, hey, it's combat - having a challenge you dread is part of the experience!

Anyway, the burning question I have had the entire time is Campaign. When will we see one... and, most importantly, WILL IT BE GOOD?

I've seen just trickles of info about MW5 and glanced at a couple videos of it. Looks promising! Is this fully under PGI development? Are the mechanics and everything borrowed straight from MWO, or is there a lot of redesign for balance sake?
...

From what I have been able to pick up on, our merc unit is destroyed, and we inherit what is left, to rebuild and grow. The beginning of the 2017 MechCon trailer talks about this a bit.


To me, it feels like they are going a similar route to MechWarrior 2 Mercenaries. Essentially things go south and you are now the leader of a merc group where you need to rebuild from ruin. I think there is a revenge element to it as well, so we are also looking to destroy those who destroyed our company.

On top of that, there are side missions to earn money, salvage mechs, and gain reputation with the MRB (Mercenary Raitings Board).

In a nutshell, this game sounds a lot like a remake of the original MechWarrior 2:Mercs, just with more mechs and a bit more detail.

However one big minus (for me anyway) happens to be a lack of fully customizable mechs in the Mechlab (only can replace weapon for weapon). There will be different weapon manufacturers with different stats for each weapon, however an unlocked MechLab would still be ideal for me (even if it was HBS BattleTech restrictive). If there was one bummer for me, that is it. Other than that, it looks to be a fun game from the GenCon demo I have seen.

Although both games use different game engines, MW5:Mercs sounds like it will control similar to MWO. I think MW5 will feel a tiny bit more weighty concerning the mechs, but expect something very similar in controls and feel to MWO. MWO has a good control scheme IMO when using a mouse and keyboard, so I personally consider this a plus. Again though, I'll have to play the game to be sure.

Overall the game seems to be shaping up nice. I have liked what I have heard in the AMAs and the footage shown always seems pretty solid. The enemy AI is still being tweaked too, so that is always good as well. The only thing I am not crazy about is the MechLab. It isn't a deal breaker for me (especially because you know mods will come down the line after launch to offer up an alternative to the restrictive Mechlab).

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 18 March 2019 - 06:51 AM.

[thievingmagpi]

an entire game built around Escort mode.

[Koniving]

MeiSooHaityu, on 18 March 2019 - 06:51 AM, said:

From what I have been able to pick up on, our merc unit is destroyed, and we inherit what is left, to rebuild and grow. The beginning of the 2017 MechCon trailer talks about this a bit.

Thank god the gameplay with Russ shows that tanks don't die to a single shot anymore. Considering that fighting two tanks as a Shadowhawk is actually a life and death struggle in Megamek (as tanks can not only kill you but they can tank damage too, just a pair of Scorpion tanks taken on at the same time as a solo Shadowhawk with stock equipment requires a bit of ingenuity... the easiest time I had I took advantage of my height, stood behind a 6 meter wall which kept soaking up their shots at me, and shot back without an issue).

Quote

However one big minus (for me anyway) happens to be a lack of fully customizable mechs in the Mechlab (only can replace weapon for weapon). There will be different weapon manufacturers with different stats for each weapon, however an unlocked MechLab would still be ideal for me (even if it was HBS BattleTech restrictive). If there was one bummer for me, that is it. Other than that, it looks to be a fun game from the GenCon demo I have seen.

Although you can only replace X weapon with X weapon.. you can, supposedly, also tweak things like targeting systems and sensor suites, replace brand name jumpjets with others, etc. So in a way you can customize more than you ever could before, but...you also can't.

Quote

Overall the game seems to be shaping up nice. I have liked what I have heard in the AMAs and the footage shown always seems pretty solid. The enemy AI is still being tweaked too, so that is always good as well. The only thing I am not crazy about is the MechLab. It isn't a deal breaker for me (especially because you know mods will come down the line after launch to offer up an alternative to the restrictive Mechlab).

One thing I had an issue with for a long time was the fact that buildings just...shatter.
But the lead designer has said they hadn't finished tweaking the settings for a number of assets so for the sake of the trailers and the demo and just maximum destruction, they set everything to 0 resistance so it'd literally just shatter. (Apparently to get more 'umph' out of the trailers they did the same with tanks and helicopters with the Con gameplay being closer to normal health).

[MeiSooHaityu]

Koniving, on 18 March 2019 - 10:39 AM, said:

Although you can only replace X weapon with X weapon.. you can, supposedly, also tweak things like targeting systems and sensor suites, replace brand name jumpjets with others, etc. So in a way you can customize more than you ever could before, but...you also can't...

I am curious to see how this works exactly. I would love for PGI to release a video of a walkthrough of the Mechlab. I would be curious to see examples of what a person can and can not do with a mech in the Mechlab. Even though it will still garner it's detractors in the comments, it might help put some others at ease if they can see some extensive modding taking place, even though it is with a constrained system.

[Koniving]

MeiSooHaityu, on 18 March 2019 - 11:03 AM, said:

I am curious to see how this works exactly. I would love for PGI to release a video of a walkthrough of the Mechlab. I would be curious to see examples of what a person can and can not do with a mech in the Mechlab. Even though it will still garner it's detractors in the comments, it might help put some others at ease if they can see some extensive modding taking place, even though it is with a constrained system.

Will see it eventually.

If it helps, during the bootup sequence of the Shadowhawk which shows details of the mech, it names the targeting system and sensor suite as well as whether or not it was night vision/heat vision capable (it wasn't).

Unfortunately, none of the recent trailers showing the mech booting up has shown this again.

[Koniving]

MeiSooHaityu, on 18 March 2019 - 11:03 AM, said:

Sadly I gotta get ready for work, but keep an eye on the Battletech discussion thread by this time tomorrow.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Koniving, on 18 March 2019 - 12:02 PM, said:

Sadly I gotta get ready for work, but keep an eye on the Battletech discussion thread by this time tomorrow.

<o

Will do