121 replies to this topic

[Prototelis]

Mystere, on 13 April 2019 - 04:50 PM, said:

Why do people keep on demanding that such things never exist? Someone needs to be exposed to enable IDF. Why is that never enough?

Because health pooling is a critical element that drives wins. If there are less people exposed each one of those people takes more damage/dies sooner.

How have you played this game for this long and not understand health pooling/a simple numbers advantage?

Edited by Prototelis, 13 April 2019 - 09:03 PM.

[Mystere]

Prototelis, on 13 April 2019 - 09:03 PM, said:

Because health pooling is a critical element that drives wins. If there are less people exposed each one of those people takes more damage/dies sooner.

How have you played this game for this long and not understand health pooling/a simple numbers advantage?

Because MWO is a team game and as such it should be the team's choice on who get to expose themselves and who do not have to. How have you played this game for this long and not understand that teamwork is a necessary element for winning? Or do you play the legendary hero and use your team mates as meat shields to pad your stats?^(*)

(*) See, I can play the same game as you do.

Edited by Mystere, 14 April 2019 - 12:57 AM.

[Prototelis]

Mystere, on 14 April 2019 - 12:56 AM, said:

understand that teamwork is a necessary element for winning?

How do you not understand that health pooling is teamwork?

Quote

How have you played this game for this long and not understand that teamwork is a necessary element for winning?

How do you not understand that health pooling is a necessary aspect of teamwork that helps drive wins?

Quote

(*) See, I can play the same game as you do.

You literally cannot. Not contributing to health pool for bigger numbers is the opposite of teamwork. An assault in the back is some 400 hitpoints not being shared with the rest of the team.

[Mystere]

Prototelis, on 14 April 2019 - 01:24 AM, said:

How do you not understand that health pooling is teamwork?

How do you not understand that health pooling is a necessary aspect of teamwork that helps drive wins?

How do you not understand that deciding who gets in the LOF and who does not is also teamwork?

You seem to think that health pooling is the be all, end all of teamwork.

Prototelis, on 14 April 2019 - 01:24 AM, said:

You literally cannot. Not contributing to health pool for bigger numbers is the opposite of teamwork. An assault in the back is some 400 hitpoints not being shared with the rest of the team.

Edited by Mystere, 14 April 2019 - 06:39 AM.

[Prototelis]

Mystere, on 14 April 2019 - 06:38 AM, said:

[/left]

How do you not understand that deciding who gets in the LOF and who does not is also teamwork?

Making a conscious decision to sit in the back to farm damage is not teamwork. Its sandbagging your team for a higher match score. The less your team mates are willing to rotate in and share armor the harder it is to win.

I don't know how you don't understand this.

Quote

You seem to think that health pooling is the be all, end all of teamwork.

No, I don't. But it is certainly one of the most important aspects of teamwork in this game.

[Mystere]

Prototelis, on 14 April 2019 - 06:46 AM, said:

Making a conscious decision to sit in the back to farm damage is not teamwork. Its sandbagging your team for a higher match score. The less your team mates are willing to rotate in and share armor the harder it is to win.

I don't know how you don't understand this.
[color=#222222]

[/color]

Where did I say deciding on your own to sit in the back to farm damage is teamwork?

Maybe a different picture will help:

[Grus]

An unnecessary change imo. AMS is working as intended.

[Khobai]

Prototelis, on 14 April 2019 - 06:46 AM, said:

How do you not understand that health pooling is teamwork?

of course its teamwork. however health pooling also isnt absolutely necessary for winning.

the only requirement for winning is to do more damage to the enemy team then they do in return to your team.

as long as you outpace the enemy for damage you can win regardless of how well your team health pools.

Prototelis, on 14 April 2019 - 06:46 AM, said:

Making a conscious decision to sit in the back to farm damage is not teamwork. Its sandbagging your team for a higher match score. The less your team mates are willing to rotate in and share armor the harder it is to win.

thats an incorrect generalization. there are countless examples where an LRM boat has won their team the game.

efficient damage sharing isnt what wins games. outpacing the enemy team for damage is what wins games. efficient damage sharing is simply a means to that end, but its not the only means.

the LRM boat not being on the frontline just means the LRM boat has to do a lot more damage in order to keep up with its own team's attrition. but that is entirely within the realm of possibility. it has happened many times. And guess what else is teamwork? supporting your LRM boats so they can do enough damage to keep pace.

also I find your argument ironic. because not supporitng or spotting for your lrm boats because you personally feel theyre parasitic and detrimental to the team for not sharing armor is also completely counterproductive to the concept of teamwork.

Edited by Khobai, 14 April 2019 - 02:24 PM.

[death390]

KuyaMorphine, on 13 April 2019 - 08:52 AM, said:

But then why take ECM?

ECM has multiple uses; first it increases the time that lock-ons take for missile firing of non-dumb fire missiles (ATM, LRM, SSRM, am i missing one?). second it increases the time that it takes to get targeting information making it so that when fighting you are firing blind (welp lets target the right shoulder; targetting info comes in, oh the left one has no armor and the right still has some). third it makes it so that enemy mechs have to be closer to target you (and anyone in your bubble) at all. fourth multiple ECM make it so that opponents can't target you (and the others near you) at all.

ECM has very few reliable counters; ECM in counter mode (short range), Active probe (short range, but add to sensors negating ECM use #s 2 &3), Tag (750 range, bright red laser leading back to you), Narc (auto targets you for everyone). thats all i think?

[justcallme A S H]

Lol at the posts in this thread.

So many clueless people.

[VitriolicViolet]

so personally ive noticed little to no difference in my use of SRMs and MRMs.

After the patch last month AMS became popular and was shredding missiles but that only lasted a week or so. ive been running my 4 AMS Corsair and im only seeing 1-4 other mechs with any AMS which is pretty much the same as before.
Even with 4 AMS im still getting hit with missiles of all kinds.

Same with the other way around. most of my assaults carry at least some MRMs or SRMs and they have been fine for the most part. even 2x SRM4 seems to be hitting becuase not many people are bringing AMS.

If people want to add a bit more health to missiles i wont complain but i dont think its necessary

[Xeno Phalcon]

justcallme A S H, on 14 April 2019 - 02:34 PM, said:

Lol at the posts in this thread.

So many clueless people.

If your going to take a swing at the salt mines at least use their names

--------

On topic though, I was goofing off earlier and decided to focus purely on missile velocity, took the mech with the greatest missile velocity quirks I had on hand and specced its weapon tree gunning purely for velocity nodes - having direct fire LRMs that move almost as fast as unquirked SRMS is pretty entertaining.

[The6thMessenger]

Prototelis, on 14 April 2019 - 06:46 AM, said:

Making a conscious decision to sit in the back to farm damage is not teamwork. Its sandbagging your team for a higher match score. The less your team mates are willing to rotate in and share armor the harder it is to win.

I don't know how you don't understand this.

No, I don't. But it is certainly one of the most important aspects of teamwork in this game.

Important, but not necessary in all cases. Rather it depends on how you use it. Teamwork is mostly conscious decisions of people within the same page.

I cannot stress it enough with B33f's LRM Maximum video, where there were 10 LRM boats sitting back and 2 spotters. I suppose they are pooled together waaay behind the lines, but effectively it's just the two spotters spotting for them that's taking the heat, and it is still team-work.

As for that part, "rotate", can i assume PUG nascaring? Cause I don't see much point in arguing off from bad gameplay.

[Bloodwitch]

the whole idea of different missile health depending on launcher size is utterly bs...

[Prototelis]

The6thMessenger, on 14 April 2019 - 06:52 PM, said:

I cannot stress it enough with B33f's LRM Maximum video, where there were 10 LRM boats sitting back and 2 spotters. I suppose they are pooled together waaay behind the lines, but effectively it's just the two spotters spotting for them that's taking the heat, and it is still team-work.

That actually took several attempts to generate a win.

They're up on the hill mostly for the trolololol, partially to confuse the enemy team if they kill the spotters and make it in the gate.

[The6thMessenger]

Prototelis, on 14 April 2019 - 07:00 PM, said:

That actually took several attempts to generate a win.

They're up on the hill mostly for the trolololol, partially to confuse the enemy team if they kill the spotters and make it in the gate.

I never argued from the standpoint of winning, I argued that it is still nonetheless teamwork.

Employing a somewhat losing strategy is not the same as people not working as a team or teammates not cooperating. I hope you understand that.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 14 April 2019 - 07:08 PM.

[Temporary Axis]

Khobai, on 14 April 2019 - 08:39 AM, said:

of course its teamwork. however health pooling also isnt absolutely necessary for winning.

the only requirement for winning is to do more damage to the enemy team then they do in return to your team.

as long as you outpace the enemy for damage you can win regardless of how well your team health pools.

No, not all damage is even or effective.

I will take 500 gauss/laser/ppc damage over 500 LRM damage any day of the week.

That damage is far more effective than lock-ons from zimbabwe.

[Mystere]

Temporary Axis, on 14 April 2019 - 07:16 PM, said:

That damage is far more effective than lock-ons from zimbabwe.

I really need to drop in that Zimbabwe map. People keep mentioning it.

[Khobai]

Temporary Axis, on 14 April 2019 - 07:16 PM, said:

No, not all damage is even or effective.

I will take 500 gauss/laser/ppc damage over 500 LRM damage any day of the week.

That damage is far more effective than lock-ons from zimbabwe.

Umm I already said LRM boats have to do higher damage to keep pace. Thats a given.

So what if the LRM boat is doing 800 damage? or 1000 damage? Or more?

Theres a definite breakeven point where the LRM boat is doing enough damage to more than make up for not being on the frontlines.

The difference between bad LRM users and good LRM users is being able to consistently reach that break even point. There just happens to be a lot of bad LRM users out there... but not all LRM users are bad.

Edited by Khobai, 14 April 2019 - 09:39 PM.

[Grus]

Khobai, on 14 April 2019 - 09:32 PM, said:

Umm I already said LRM boats have to do higher damage to keep pace. Thats a given.

So what if the LRM boat is doing 800 damage? or 1000 damage? Or more?

Theres a definite breakeven point where the LRM boat is doing enough damage to more than make up for not being on the frontlines.

The difference between bad LRM users and good LRM users is being able to consistently reach that break even point. There just happens to be a lot of bad LRM users out there... but not all LRM users are bad.

Considering the last time you did any damage was back in Aug of last year, your opinion isnt that valuable...