11 replies to this topic

[Gh0stie Gaming]

Is there no way to improve the piece of other useless equipment? I assume this is the game's attempt at the c3 master unit, but with no slave unit I'm not sure why it was even included. I would think this could be reworked to help with indirect fire like it does in the tabletop game. This would be nice for organized groups where you could have your scouts equipped with the slave units and a LRM boat with the master unit to improve lock-on times or something like that.

[FLG 01]

Steam Golem, on 31 March 2019 - 02:03 AM, said:

I assume this is the game's attempt at the c3 master unit, but with no slave unit I'm not sure why it was even included.

No, it is not a C3 unit. It is this:
http://www.sarna.net...Command_Console

And yes, it should be reworked to be more useful. There have been many, many suggestions over the years, and PGI promised to look into it at least once. Nothing ever happened, though.

[The6thMessenger]

I'd rather have it allow locking two mechs at the same time.

[Nesutizale]

Doesn't it improve sensore range? With the lock-on changes that might be something to improve on.

[Verilligo]

Nesutizale, on 31 March 2019 - 04:16 AM, said:

Doesn't it improve sensore range? With the lock-on changes that might be something to improve on.

Spoiler: sensor range is a nearly useless stat for adding improvements to. At the ranges where you would be interested in getting sensor sight out to, you are SO FAR back from the optimum range of most weapons that you'll be doing limited damage at best. For sure, any weapon with travel time will be much more susceptible to being blocked by cover by the time it arrives at the target. You're also that much more likely to be getting ECM interference from balled up mechs and, unless you're doing FP on super long range maps, will be removing your valuable armor from being presented with the rest of the team. On top of all of that, you can still get sensor locks from other mechs that do move into range... and even if you're just trying to mark that the mech exists so everyone knows where it's going, you don't need a sensor lock to do Target Spotted.

At the end of the day, sensor range is really only useful to a very limited number of mechs, mostly ERLL, AC2, and (blech) LGR boats. And even for them, it's not a stat to go out of your way to boost up, certainly not with the Command Console that doesn't even give you an offensive boost. One could say that the CC boosts target info gathering time by more than a similar tonnage Targeting Computer, but using a CC precludes the use of a TC if memory serves, so you're not gaining the TC's offensive boosts, which is the whole reason for bringing a TC anyway. The trouble is if you want to give the CC a huge boost, the Clans don't have anything similar, so you have to give it one that doesn't actually give THAT much of an advantage to IS players... which still leaves it useless.

Really, nothing of value would be lost if they just decided to remove it from the game outright.

[Nesutizale]

The tabletop Command Console added a bonus to inititive and a satelite uplink.

We allready have satelite uplinks in the game so that could be a thing...also I don't know how much of a use that would be except you are playing on big maps or you are looking for the last mech thats hiding. In that cases haveing a periodical ping to see where the enemy is or getting several look-ons in one go could be a thing.

Haveing the initive....thats kinda hard to translate. Its basicly knowing what your enemy does before you make your move but since we are doing things in realtime. I guess if everything in sensor range would show up on radar, no matter the line of sight, then you could have a real advantage in planing your move. Excepting to this would be ECM.
Then haveing a mech like the Cyclops with you that boost sensorrange could be of interest.
Sure this might be a bit overpowered but I am currently just tossing ideas around to see if there is some potential in it.

[Maddermax]

I can think of a bunch of ways it could be made useful, but none that are likely to be programmed in any time soon.

You could make it so that you get all sensor information from friendly mechs - not just the ones that have been locked by team-mates, but every blip any ally has line of sight to. To make it not just be a LRM buff, you can make it so those shared targets can't be locked (mark them in a different shade of red) like normal ones, but you can see their locations on the map, see them in hud, use Q info, and can mark them. Perhaps share that info with friendly mechs within 120m of you as well. So, basically a module for command and control, more suited to faction/group games, but useful to anyone and fitting with it's lore.

Or give it the ability to call out "Incoming Artillery/Airstrike", and mark it's target with a bright column on your hud in yellow, so it can be seen even when the smoke is placed out of sight. And share that info with nearby friendlies. Not lore based, but a useful tactical awareness ability that helps the team.

Both things would be fun, and allow it to be a useful bit of kit in team-play situations, while not directly buffing the mech taking it, or making it compete with Targeting computers.

Edited by Maddermax, 31 March 2019 - 06:47 AM.

[Tesunie]

Verilligo, on 31 March 2019 - 06:25 AM, said:

Spoiler:

As of the missile changes with the last patch, having a longer sensor range would permit your indirect missile locks to be acquired faster. I think that was what the person was commenting on. However, I suspect that the increase to missile lock speeds would be too insignificant for the 3 ton weight of CC.


On the remarks of CC in lore and TT, it actually was essentially a second cockpit. Someone else could pilot the mech in case anything happened to the main pilot (not a concern here), as well as be an extra eye on the sensors (this is the extra sensor ranges?), and that second pilot would give more up to date tactical information and battle plans (this would be the +1 initiative bonus).

Personally, though some excellent suggestions are here, I'd love to see it being a way to have an in cockpit "spectator" who could place markers on the map and deliver additional information to allies. Say, have it as a two person team, one piloting the mech, the other drop calling. Only problem would be, not many people would want to do the drop calling only segment. But imagine if someone who could, individually and separately from the pilot, deliver strike requests (perhaps even with the CC providing an additional consumable slot for this); mark enemies for priority destruction with a visual mark; place route and positional marks on the mini-map; etc. You know, all those things (and a few extra) that anyone who takes up commander or lance commander can currently do, but can't afford to do during a firefight?

[Nesutizale]

I also don't aspect any kind of changes at least until MW5M comes out and resources are freed up.

Your first idea is pretty much what I had in mind, just without the selectable option. I think haveing more informations on the enemy is allways good. Instead of a different shade of red make untargeted enemys yellow.
On the other hand we basicly have these informations allready, just that the LOS can block your flow of information.

Another crazy idea would be to give CC a completly different kind of gameplay. Substracting one player from the team to be seated into the CC chair. The player dosn't playes a mech so the team would lose a mech from the start.
In return the Commander would have more tools to command the team and can fully concentrate on it. He would be given controle over all the airstrikes/artillerie of the team (with a cooldown so he can't place 11 strikes at the same time), can paint into the map waypoints or draw firinglines. If you remember MechCommander a little bit...kinda like that just with real players.

He would also have access to some tanks and infantrie he can call in as reinforcement. Weak ones but still they can create some distractions or just create chaos.
Maybe even have a minefield somewhere and the ablility to mark enemy minefields so the team knows where to be carefull around.

Sure taking someone out of the team that is willing to do something completly different then stomping might not be something most players want but for faction play...that could be a thing.

[Grus]

First, thank you for not Necroing a old thread. But this dead horse has been beaten to a pulp.

[Nesutizale]

Tesunie, on 31 March 2019 - 07:05 AM, said:

On the remarks of CC in lore and TT, it actually was essentially a second cockpit. Someone else could pilot the mech in case anything happened to the main pilot (not a concern here), as well as be an extra eye on the sensors (this is the extra sensor ranges?), and that second pilot would give more up to date tactical information and battle plans (this would be the +1 initiative bonus).

I think you are mixing up the double cockpit with the CC. Double cockpit was where two persons are dividing the workload and CC was one person completly focusing on tactics...with the exception that if the other pilot was killed he could take over but loose the CC advantage.

[Tesunie]

Nesutizale, on 31 March 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:

I think you are mixing up the double cockpit with the CC. Double cockpit was where two persons are dividing the workload and CC was one person completly focusing on tactics...with the exception that if the other pilot was killed he could take over but loose the CC advantage.

Dual Cockpits were when two people piloted the mech together at the same time. Took a lot of team training between the two, but had large advantages (which often wasn't worth the amount of time and work, but if you got there...).

CC had a second cockpit with more tactical information in the second cockpit. The second cockpit could only be used to pilot the mech in cases where the main cockpit was rendered inoperable (either by damage or the pilot being unable to continue).

So, no. I did not mix up the two, hence I said, "Someone else could pilot the mech in case anything happened to the main pilot", rather than saying they piloted the mech together. Very similar in nature, but in fact different. Though, admittedly, it is often mixed up when people talk about the two features.

One of the most well known mechs with a CC was the Cyclops, meanwhile the Atlas D-DC was technically a Dual Cockpit and not a command console... The Novels for Twilight of the Clans had a great segment about the CC with the Cyclops (and a SL vintage one at that) with the commander of the Eridian Light Horse. Great series of novels there if you like reading and can find it...