47 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 02 April 2019 - 11:48 AM, said:

modular armor would have to work differently in MWO though

Youd have to somehow incentivize placing modular armor in arm and leg locations over torso locations. otherwise people would just put it in their torso every time.

You could just offer 4 different options for modular armor:
CT: +20 armor
STs: +12 armor to each ST
Arms: +10 to each arm and +5 to each ST
Legs: +15 armor to each leg

Then thered be a reason to put it in different places depending on the mech.

The incentive to arm placement is to protect your arm weapons (even at full armor they often snap off like twigs) and/or to use your arms as shields for your torso sections. The incentive to place it in the legs is if you're using a mech that gets legged often (light or small medium).

[FRAGTAST1C]

For Goodness sake, AMS isn't overpowered. It's just that there are a lot of AMS right now. But many times, there are games where only one or two people bring AMS for the whole team. The annoying thing is that AMS still shoots through solid objects. That needs to stop but I doubt it will. On a further note, reducing the HP of different launchers of the same missile type is also stupid. Just fix that.

LRMs are still effective, just not at 800m+ firing into a lance of mechs carrying AMS. Don't be an idiot. Look at what's happening to your missiles and target something else or reposition.

I started playing my Orion IIC (C). It's got 4 SRM6+A and just to try, I fired all of my SRMs into the enemy lance that was 200m away that had AMS. My missiles got swallowed whole. So, I changed my target, got some brawling done with the enemy skirmishers and eventually maneuvered around and attacked AMS people from an even closer range. Only a tiny portion of my missiles got destroyed.

So, yes, the gameplay is fine. Just don't keep doing the same thing that you were doing before like a lunatic. Look at what's happening to your missiles and act accordingly.

If you bring in different kinds of armours, then the same applies. If I was playing my Hellbringer and shot at someone who was prancing around with reflective plating, then I will stop shooting at him, warn my team over on Comms. and go after someone else. Reflective plating will be effective to a certain degree against laser fire but will be very weak against ballistic and missiles.

[The6thMessenger]

Vellron2005, on 02 April 2019 - 09:50 AM, said:

My point was - how many Laser and Ballistic users that gloat now over how "effective" AMS is Vs LRMs, would be happy if a similar mechanic stopped their favorite weapon dead in its tracks..

PGI si all big on "putting stuff more in line with other stuff" - so where is the nerf to lasers and ballistics relative to how much damage you're taking?

Seriously PGI.. please put AMS "more in line" with not being a god-shield.

And no, I would not be opposed to reactive and reflective armor as options.. Give Lurmers some "AMS-like protection" too..

So you're still butt-hurt with LRMs.

That's good to know.

kamichiwa343, on 02 April 2019 - 06:18 AM, said:

have you ever considered that the reason that so many counters exist is because its so freaking broken. It amazes me that people like you can abuse one of the highest dps weapons in the game and still be salty. if your having trouble with your playstyle and expecting things to change without you changing yourself, then that is the definition of lunacy. Don't expect others to change for you. overcome and adapt. quit whining

Like I have been pointing out over and over again, make LRMs less spammable by lower ROF, but have higher damage to compensate.

Make it less about raining LRMs, but landing them.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 03 April 2019 - 03:58 AM.

[Vellron2005]

The6thMessenger, on 03 April 2019 - 03:38 AM, said:

So you're still butt-hurt with LRMs.

That's good to know.

Nah, I'm just unhappy that making other people but-hurt about me using LRMs on them is less effective than before..

[The6thMessenger]

Vellron2005, on 03 April 2019 - 03:53 AM, said:

Nah, I'm just unhappy that making other people but-hurt about me using LRMs on them is less effective than before..

Like I said, still Butt-hurt.

[Darion Rothgarr]

More options is always a good thing in my view.

The Ballistic and Laser reflective armor reduce the damage they protect against, by 50% i believe if i remember correctly.

Also, lets not forget about the Blue Light Particle shield that reduced PPC damage by 50%.

[Vellron2005]

The6thMessenger, on 03 April 2019 - 04:01 AM, said:

Like I said, still Butt-hurt.

Regardless.. I think I'm right on my points.. stuff's not right.. me being or not being but-hurt doesn't make wrong things right..

[The6thMessenger]

Vellron2005, on 03 April 2019 - 04:39 AM, said:

Regardless.. I think I'm right on my points.. stuff's not right.. me being or not being but-hurt doesn't make wrong things right..

So why is being butt hurt relevant at all?

Vellron2005, on 02 April 2019 - 09:50 AM, said:

My point was - how many Laser and Ballistic users that gloat now over how "effective" AMS is Vs LRMs, would be happy if a similar mechanic stopped their favorite weapon dead in its tracks..

You don't want to make this about being butthurt, yet the entire thread is about being butthurt.

[Vellron2005]

The6thMessenger, on 03 April 2019 - 04:45 AM, said:

So why is being butt hurt relevant at all?

It's not.. You brought it up.

The6thMessenger, on 03 April 2019 - 04:45 AM, said:

You don't want to make this about being butthurt, yet the entire thread is about being butthurt.

I'm just trying to prove a point... that people who laugh at us Lurmers about being nerfed by AMS would be just as but-hurt if a similar mechanic was introduced against their favorite weapon, and that AMS being OP as it is, isn't fair.. And PGI knows this..

Take it as you will.. but also.. prove me wrong.

Edited by Vellron2005, 03 April 2019 - 05:02 AM.

[K O Z A K]

Vellron2005, on 03 April 2019 - 05:01 AM, said:

I'm just trying to prove a point... that people who laugh at us Lurmers about being nerfed by AMS would be just as but-hurt if a similar mechanic was introduced against their favorite weapon, and that AMS being OP as it is, isn't fair.. And PGI knows this..

Take it as you will.. but also.. prove me wrong.

So to "even" the playing field will you be also ok with my earlier suggestion?

We make all weapons able to shoot indirectly, so if I see a red box with hills and teammates between me and the enemy, when I point at the red box the computer will calculate indirect trajectory and my dakka will shoot over all obstacles in the way to hit the enemy hiding behind a hill? This would also of course mean the second a single one of my teammates sees one enemy all of us will be able to shoot them at the same time...you know to really make it an even playing field

We can say the mech launches a little mirror drone into the sky to reflect lasers for idf mechanic. Seems like a fair deal no?

[Verilligo]

Vellron2005, on 03 April 2019 - 05:01 AM, said:

I'm just trying to prove a point... that people who laugh at us Lurmers about being nerfed by AMS would be just as but-hurt if a similar mechanic was introduced against their favorite weapon, and that AMS being OP as it is, isn't fair.. And PGI knows this..

Take it as you will.. but also.. prove me wrong.

That would require you listen to reason. You, however, believe your claims with almost fanatical zeal. As it turns out, you can't reason with fanatics, they're simply too deep into their own beliefs to second-guess them. AMS is a little too strong at the moment, yes, and I'm sure missile health will eventually be brought back up so that it's less severely impacted. But it's not so overwhelmingly strong that you need to summon a crusade. Most people who play the game aren't even that heavily impacted because they don't limit themselves to just one style of play, it's only individuals like yourself that seem to take some strange sense of pride in using a certain type of build near-exclusively.

Yes, that last statement does include more than just LRM players, it's just that LRM boats are singled out because it's the only weapon in the entire game that can indirectly fire. It's harder to slight players who use strictly direct fire weapons because EVERYTHING other than LRMs is direct fire.

[Darion Rothgarr]

Mech mortars would be good indirect ballistic weapons. You could also make a case for indirect fire for ballistic with high arc trajectory for autocannons, making short range artillery strikes.

Im also for Precision AC rounds, which are gyrojet AC rounds that autocorrect their trajectory at your target. Why cant we have it all?

[Athom83]

I love that Vellron made this topic to poke at everyone else happy with the LRM changes with a "Well how would YOUR like it!" post while being completely oblivious that the other armor options was an already popular idea. Good job mate, shooting your own sanity in the foot again.

[FupDup]

Darion Rothgarr, on 03 April 2019 - 06:19 AM, said:

Mech mortars would be good indirect ballistic weapons. You could also make a case for indirect fire for ballistic with high arc trajectory for autocannons, making short range artillery strikes.

Mech Mortars are missile weapons, not ballistics in BT.

[The6thMessenger]

Vellron2005, on 03 April 2019 - 05:01 AM, said:

I'm just trying to prove a point... that people who laugh at us Lurmers about being nerfed by AMS would be just as but-hurt if a similar mechanic was introduced against their favorite weapon, and that AMS being OP as it is, isn't fair.. And PGI knows this..

Take it as you will.. but also.. prove me wrong.

Like I said, this entire thread is just about you being butthurt, like the other posts you did saying us about how AMS is unfair. I brought it up, because it IS about you being butthurt. It's not that it discredits the idea, it's just that transparent that you're doing this for pathetic reasons.

Prove you wrong about what? I never challenged your assertion that there's going to be people angry about it, perhaps there would be.

That being said, there are people that actually liked the idea, I too want hardened armor for my urbie

Verilligo, on 03 April 2019 - 06:01 AM, said:

That would require you listen to reason. You, however, believe your claims with almost fanatical zeal. As it turns out, you can't reason with fanatics, they're simply too deep into their own beliefs to second-guess them.

I know right? This guy gets it.

Verilligo, on 03 April 2019 - 06:01 AM, said:

AMS is a little too strong at the moment, yes, and I'm sure missile health will eventually be brought back up so that it's less severely impacted. But it's not so overwhelmingly strong that you need to summon a crusade. Most people who play the game aren't even that heavily impacted because they don't limit themselves to just one style of play, it's only individuals like yourself that seem to take some strange sense of pride in using a certain type of build near-exclusively.

Exactly. I am disappointed with the AMS buff that the LRM rework kinda has little use and thereby little point when AMS was prolific, but I just changed weapons.

Verilligo, on 03 April 2019 - 06:01 AM, said:

Yes, that last statement does include more than just LRM players, it's just that LRM boats are singled out because it's the only weapon in the entire game that can indirectly fire. It's harder to slight players who use strictly direct fire weapons because EVERYTHING other than LRMs is direct fire.

And that's the thing "LRM Players", Vellron has this category for us, (LOS-ers previously) DF-ers vs Lurmers, as if it's an identity that people choose to gimp themselves by playing only LRMs. This is just him trying to clamor for victim status by making an us-vs-them mentality, pathetic.

But, to be fair, the AMS indirect buff does affect more than LRMs and ATMs. Other missile systems are actually hampered as well, so this is a missile-wide issue. But dang Vellron just makes this about LRM.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 03 April 2019 - 02:34 PM.

[Nightbird]

Reactive armor that cuts missiles damage in half, which also doesn't affect direct fire ballistics, would be perfect. I agree!

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 03 April 2019 - 02:33 PM, said:

Reactive armor that cuts missiles damage in half, which also doesn't affect direct fire ballistics, would be perfect. I agree!

Well, if they are using HEAT rounds, which could be used either with shells or missiles, it should be affecting ballistics as well. After all, the point of reactive armor -- which is basically explosive packets upon the armor is that the explosion disperses the super-heated copper-jet away from the vehicle.

But that's just me.

[FupDup]

The6thMessenger, on 03 April 2019 - 02:37 PM, said:

Well, if they are using HEAT rounds, which could be used either with shells or missiles, it should be affecting ballistics as well. After all, the point of reactive armor -- which is basically explosive packets upon the armor is that the explosion disperses the super-heated copper-jet away from the vehicle.

But that's just me.

I think Reactive Armor should stick to what its BT purpose was because if we expanded it to ballistic weapons then that would invalidate the far future Ballistic-Reinforced Armor. It also might be a little too stronk to halve the damage from all missile and all ballistic weapons with one armor type (Ballistic Reinforced does that by lore but I would probably remove that and focus it entirely on ballistics).

[The6thMessenger]

FupDup, on 03 April 2019 - 02:40 PM, said:

I think Reactive Armor should stick to what its BT purpose was because if we expanded it to ballistic weapons then that would invalidate the far future Ballistic-Reinforced Armor. It also might be a little too stronk to halve the damage from all missile and all ballistic weapons with one armor type (Ballistic Reinforced does that by lore but I would probably remove that and focus it entirely on ballistics).

Well, true. Although the Laser Reflective armor might prove to be more prolific considering the Clan's good rep with lasers.

I think we should just introduce the Hardened Armor, make it a 25% to 15% damage reduction from ALL types and see if we could implement specialized armors.

[FupDup]

The6thMessenger, on 03 April 2019 - 02:48 PM, said:

Well, true. Although the Laser Reflective armor might prove to be more prolific considering the Clan's good rep with lasers.

I think we should just introduce the Hardened Armor, make it a 25% to 15% damage reduction from ALL types and see if we could implement specialized armors.

Hardened Armor should be higher than that because it takes double the tonnage of normal armor and makes your mech slower. At least 50% resistance. I want to load an Urbie with Hardened Armor and Modular Armor to turn it into a raid boss.

Ferro-Lamellor is the one that provides 20% reduction against everything in exchange for being 12 slots and slightly heavier than standard armor (unfortunately it's Clan-exclusive).