114 replies to this topic

[CFC Conky]

That's some great progress Rosh, I've been playing for two years and I'm still only halfway through T3 .

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Void Angel]

Oh frappaccino. Why the crap does the dang site log me out at midnight every dang day? I'm not usually up, but it's annoying as sin to just lose posts when it happens.

Summary of much more verbose points because I should be sleeping:

You should try staying back a bit - but not out of the fight. Assaults should use their weight of metal to project combat presence. Can be just an Atlas sticking with a long-range team under cover to punish anyone who closes with his teammates, or a long-range 'mech who hammers people from behind the main line. Just always position yourself to make use of your firepower and remember that armor is a resource too.

Gauss Rifles can only be fired in pairs, expressly to prevent 60-point, heat-free, long-range, pinpoint-damage alpha strikes. =) There really should be a full set of Adjective Animal color schemes, though. Not a fan of the Fascist Space Elves thematically, so didn't notice there wasn't.

Maps are probably slow in development because of the development of Mech5, and maybe difficulties in the way the engine works - just guessing on that last from the number of issues with invisible walls and stuff, plus how they've had to modify Cryengine's netcode and other things. Some of the people who did that stuff likely don't work for the company any more, so there could be legacy code making things harder to tune. Really, don't know, though.

[Rosh87]

Void Angel, on 08 May 2019 - 11:17 PM, said:

Oh frappaccino. Why the crap does the dang site log me out at midnight every dang day? I'm not usually up, but it's annoying as sin to just lose posts when it happens.

Summary of much more verbose points because I should be sleeping:

You should try staying back a bit - but not out of the fight. Assaults should use their weight of metal to project combat presence. Can be just an Atlas sticking with a long-range team under cover to punish anyone who closes with his teammates, or a long-range 'mech who hammers people from behind the main line. Just always position yourself to make use of your firepower and remember that armor is a resource too.

Gauss Rifles can only be fired in pairs, expressly to prevent 60-point, heat-free, long-range, pinpoint-damage alpha strikes. =) There really should be a full set of Adjective Animal color schemes, though. Not a fan of the Fascist Space Elves thematically, so didn't notice there wasn't.

Maps are probably slow in development because of the development of Mech5, and maybe difficulties in the way the engine works - just guessing on that last from the number of issues with invisible walls and stuff, plus how they've had to modify Cryengine's netcode and other things. Some of the people who did that stuff likely don't work for the company any more, so there could be legacy code making things harder to tune. Really, don't know, though.

Gaaah ! I feel like I've been cheated of your extensive, excellent, sage wisdom - Void Angel ! The fact you hinted at a much more detailed reply to my 6 questions earlier (possibly including advice on the Jagermech / Rifleman thing I was debating), and the system logged you out and I lost the opportunity to view all that wonderful good commentary... !!! The very thought saddens me as much as the idea that Humanity bombed themselves to bits in the Succession Wars, and lost all that civilization and technology from the Star League Era, in the backstory / lore.

Losing a Mech-vets wise words is like losing a Mech Production Line, methinks !

(but thanks for the abbreviated thoughts you provided, and hope you - @Konniving, and others can keep on guiding me on the path of the Mechwarrior )

[Horseman]

Rosh87, on 03 May 2019 - 07:50 AM, said:

Interesting - but I don't think it can fit that much heavy weight on, without going extremely skimpy on the armor plating, no ?

I mean, I already have the 2-UAC10 / 2-UAC5 setup for my Madcat-2-B, and it does well of course, but hmmmm.... could be interesting to see how Asp manages with even MORE - lol

Belay that, I must have confused it with a Dire Wolf (which can do that loadout just barely).

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I had a couple questions on Clan ATM's... which I tried out for the first time, the other night, on my Ebon Jaguar. As near as I could see (visually) they appeared to basically work like MRM's - except with tracking potential (as opposed to dumb-fire)...but they weren't as obnoxious as the much-hated (from what I've heard) LRM's, because they didn't seem to do that "fly up in the air and come down at a crazy angle, even when target is below a ridge or partially behind cover"-thing, that LRM's seem to do when they hit me.

As of now, I still have never equipped an LRM on any mech, nor fired one ever - and I almost want to keep it that way (for some silly sense of warrior pride, ), but are Clan ATM's considered acceptable as an alternative ? (IE - less 'cheesy' than LRM's) ?

ATMs are not a LRM substitute, they're more like pumped-up streaks. If you're using ATMs at LRM ranges and/or using them on a mech that has plenty of missile hardpoints, you're using them opposite their purpose in MWO (which is brutal damage per hardpoint in a relatively close range band).

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But, I imagine if you "boat" missiles (Clan-ATM's even), they become much more fearsome ?

Generally, any weapon does when boated because you can optimize your build and skill points for it.

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I'm always going to be a Ballistics-lover 1st, Energy distant second, and Missiles far, far, in the back after that - but I don't want to artificially limit my experiences, by completely cutting myself off from an entire "arm" of the weapon tree, so to speak - hence my Clan ATM curiosity, here...

If you want to experiment with missiles, grab a Huntsman. It can do a bunch of different things - boating LRMs or SRMs is an option, but energy and ballistic builds are just as viable.

Rosh87, on 08 May 2019 - 12:28 PM, said:

2.) I had a few mech specific questions - as I'm debating purchasing either / or both of the Rifleman // Jagermech sets (or at least 1 or two of the 'best' variants from each of them). I love the idea of heavy Dakka (ballistics), as I've mentioned before, and both these mechs can apparently 'boat' a significant amount of them, with great Quirks to back it up.

Currently I've read that the "Jagermech DD" - is great, as is the Rifleman 3N ? (I think - or maybe it's 3C) - one of them has the lotsa Ballistic mounts, IIRC. Also heard the Legend Killer hero for rifleman is great with LB-10X shotguns, which is also appealing to me. Dunno much about the Jagermech hero (if it's any good at all).

Thoughts on both these mechs ? Which of them (variants) do you guys recommend I look into ?

Jagermech DD is better than Rifleman 3C for AC2 boating. This said, all Rifleman versions have slightly better hitboxes and mobility than the Jagermechs. Personally I've had some decent success running several Rifleman variants with 2xUAC10:

• The 3N has the most offensively-minded quirks, with 10% range, 15% cooldown and 20% velocity
  
• The 3C is more survival-oriented, with 25% more structure on side torsos and 50% on arms, and its' quirks give it 20% range to ballistics (since it has 10% to ballistics and 10% general that stacks) and 10% cooldown

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Kodiak - best variant still the "3" ? (UAC-10 x2 and UAC-5 x2 ?) // "Dakka Bear" ?

KDK-3 is literally the single least mobile assault in the game. It has more tonnage to work with than the Mad Cat Mk II B, but I'm not convinced that's all much of an improvement given your main guns are all locked to your torso (and therefore hampered by its' slow traversal and very limited pitch and yaw angles)

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5.) Gauss Rifles - are there any mechs (assuming assaults would be needed) that could reliably mount 4 Gauss Rifles - like 2 "regular ones" and two "Light" ones - and thus have a lot of pinpoint damage potential / Sniper feel - or is that something PGI wanted to avoid (for perhaps obvious Balance concern reasons) ?

You can only charge two Gauss Rifles at a time. The usual approach is to combine them with a battery of ER Large Lasers, but if you're adamant about quad Gauss... Dire Wolf can do it, Kodiak 3 can do it (at the expense of using a Standard engine), some Annihilator variants can just barely (and at the expense of armor)

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6.) I won that La-Malinche mech yesterday - kind of cool // Read that it was considered kind of crappy for a long time, but saw it has a lot of cool Quirks now, so maybe PGI buffed it slightly, since it was so bad ? I came up with a 3-Large Pulse Laser + 1 AC-10 build, to complement its Quirks // Is this considered a reasonable approach to that mech ? (It's still not 'great', I think - but perhaps 'serviceable" - at the least)

Pretty much. Another option is to take advantage of that missile hardpoint to chuck in a large MRM launcher and use your ballistic for an AC20 or a UAC20, giving you a brawler mech.

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* Bonus Random Question - So, the game has been out for a Long time, right ? There IS a lot in it (Camo, Colors, Decals, Mechs in general, etc)... but I'm curious why we don't have Clan Patterns for at least the full 7 Invading Clans, instead of just the first 4 (Wolf, Ghost Bear, Jade Falcon, and Smoke Jaguar), after all this time ? Like, they have Nova Cat, Diamond Shark, and Steel Viper clan 'decals' and such, in the Camo Spec area, but you can't actually just say "give me Nova Cat pattern on my Mech" - BOOM - and get it. You have to kind of play around with things to get "sort of close" to what they would / should look like. Why is this the case ? Does PGI only release things like that - at a very slow rate ?

There haven't been any new Clan - or Inner Sphere (remember that the five houses aren't the only factions that exist) - patterns since the Invasion/Resistance packs. At this point, if PGI created a new pattern they'd have to produce a version for it for every applicable chassis - which I'd expect to be quite prohibitive in terms of time required.

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Ditto for Maps....like, since I've been playing (earliest games were back at the end of Jan / early Feb - and consisted of my just playing the Cadet Missions, and then not touching the game extensively till April-7th).... but there is really only one "new" map - Hibernal Rift...which is basically just a somewhat re-touched Canyon Network, no ?

Why no 'truly new' looking and feeling maps ?

We usually only get 1 or 2 new maps a year, especially with PGI committing most of its' resources into MW5. Solaris City had been "truly new" when it launched, as was Rubellite Oasis before it.

[Rosh87]

CFC Conky, on 08 May 2019 - 03:18 PM, said:

That's some great progress Rosh, I've been playing for two years and I'm still only halfway through T3 .

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Thanks, Conky !!! Yeah - everyone has said my progress is very fast, compared to "normal". A few caveats should be noted. First, when I decided to "go hardcore" into the game, I invested in Premium Time. I also started doing a lot of Research on the forum, on MechDB, MechSpecs, etc - and the Sarna Lore site (just to learn and become engrossed by the rich history of the game / universe, which helped me enjoy things like the Hero Mechs that were from famous characters in the storyline, etc).

I also watched the famous Baradul, TTB, Kana-J, (the whole cadre of YT/streamers) and their helpful tips / build videos. In short, while I was still a "newbie" - I was far less of a pure "newb" than most who literally go in completely blind to everything. Admittedly, the game's many menus and such were not easy to get a handle on, and I have still had many questions - as shown by my posting here. Thankfully, the veterans are quite kind, so I've taken a lot of their input to heart, and done better for it.

- Related to that point one (Premium Time) - is the fact that I invested a few 100$'s into the game, in the form of MC purchases - as I had bought only one other game all year (Resident Evil-2 Remake), and thus had several 'months worth' of Gaming Budget saved up - so I didn't feel particularly 'bad" about putting it into something I was really having a blast with (MWO). That MC enabled me to convert more XP and thus "level up" (Skills) my mechs at a somewhat faster rate than someone completely Free to Play (hence better speed of progression, in theory). I also bought a few Hero Mechs (Highroller, Deathstrike, my beloved Direwolf-UV, etc - and got the Marauder pack via the MW-5 pre-order, which gave me the Alpha (another Hero), etc. So I had a nice cadre of mechs to just grind up Credits if I wanted.

The extra Credits (C-Bills) enabled me to tweak most of my mechs based on the recommendations here, or from Baradul, etc - and thus I have not suffered as much as a completely blind guy who maybe puts ER-Small Laser with Micro Pulse and a single PPC - as his Mechs random loadout, or something. In short, I had "good advice" and thus have been able to put together relatively "well constructed Mechs".

Now....all that said...I still have had to actually Play the Matches...and perform well, so I am not selling myself too short, I think. I really DO feel like I've learned and play the game much smarter overall. I also have come to learn most of the originally dizzying assortment of Mechs when I see them, and thus know some of their powers / potential, and how to fight them better. So there's a definite learning experience I've been going through, and it's great to experience

- example is my last 4 games this morning:

1.) Ebon Jaguar - over 725 Damage - Win (my best ever game in the E-Jag, as I'd switched from a much-used Gauss + ER meds to 2-Large Pulse and 6 ER-Med - and did wonderfully).

2.) Bushwhacker Highroller - 479 damage - Loss (for some reason, I was 2nd on the Team in damage, meaning I surpassed all our Heavies and all but 1 Assault - which I found kind of disappointing - from them, lol). Oh well get em' next game, I felt.

3.) Bushwhacker Highroller - 486 damage -HPG Array - Loss (another game of over 400-dmg in a Medium, and still a Loss - sadly). BUT...both of those Whacker' games had me with the "Equals Sign" on the Pilot Skill Rating thingy.

4.) Bushwhacker Highroller - 761 damage !! - Canyon Network (probably my best ever Bushie' game since buying it too - yet STILL a Loss. Great thing on this one was, I actually got a "Green Arrow UP" on my Skill Rating thing, even in defeat).


* This means I didn't actually drop, even in the Losses. This theme has been another big part of my progress in the Tiers, I think. I've managed to get "Green Arrow Up" in good wins - or even moderate wins - and then managed to have enough "Big Losses", that I "hold even" in those defeats - meaning my overall progress remains upwards !

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Horseman, on 09 May 2019 - 02:47 AM, said:

Belay that, I must have confused it with a Dire Wolf (which can do that loadout just barely).


ATMs are not a LRM substitute, they're more like pumped-up streaks. If you're using ATMs at LRM ranges and/or using them on a mech that has plenty of missile hardpoints, you're using them opposite their purpose in MWO (which is brutal damage per hardpoint in a relatively close range band).

That's great ! I basically don't WANT them to be like LRM's, or a "substitute". I'd love to see if I can play my entire MWO 'career' without ever equipping or using an LRM of any kind (Clan or IS) - just as a matter of pilot pride / honor - since I learned they are looked down on so much by the community, from the very first weeks I was playing as a Cadet, in my Trial Kodiak (loved that thing, lol - as it was my first taste of Dakka, in this game, and it hooked me - so I ended up getting my Annihilator 2a as my first 'truly owned' Mech)


- thanks for your good tips on Rifleman / Jaeger. I think I'll get the Rifleman pack, since I wanted the Legend Killer anyways, when I watched several videos of Mr. Baradul putting up 1000 dmg matches with 10+ Components destroyed, lol - and I love those LBx shogtuns anyways, so to think it's very good at them, is highly exciting ! Then I'll also get that 3N, and the other variant that you noted are solid too (in ballistics). I need more IS heavies anyways - as my only other ones are a single Marauder and the Marauder Bounty Hunter hero (which is...Okay...but I wish it had more Ballistic slots, lol - at least the camo is cool).

- great points about the Camo Schemes and the fact they'd have to make it work with all 300+ mechs or whatever they have - wow, I'd not thought of it as being that complicated on their end !

- my last last game of the day (tired, gotta go to sleep) was a Hunchback 2C with 4-UAC'2s - on Rube Oasis - 469 damage - another Loss, and another " = ", on the Skill Rating change. I'll take these last several games as a sign, and pack it in today - hahah ! You guys are great ! love talking with you all

Edited by Rosh87, 09 May 2019 - 09:22 AM.

[Horseman]

Rosh87, on 09 May 2019 - 09:21 AM, said:

That's great ! I basically don't WANT them to be like LRM's, or a "substitute". I'd love to see if I can play my entire MWO 'career' without ever equipping or using an LRM of any kind (Clan or IS) - just as a matter of pilot pride / honor - since I learned they are looked down on so much by the community, from the very first weeks I was playing as a Cadet, in my Trial Kodiak (loved that thing, lol - as it was my first taste of Dakka, in this game, and it hooked me - so I ended up getting my Annihilator 2a as my first 'truly owned' Mech)

They are looked down mainly by two types of players: the eternal newbies who couldn't recognize cover if it bit their *** off, and elitist tryhards who believe lock-on weapons have cooties and would gimp their style.

The facts are that:

• LRMs get a lot of flak not because they're a bad weapon, but because there are a lot of inept players who gravitate towards using LRMs exclusively and consistently fail at using them correctly
  
• Employed properly, a LRM mech that stays with the team and consistently rains DPS on targets can be a force multiplier for their team
  
• Over-relying on LRMs - in particular, on indirect fire mode - may have a degrading effect on one's aiming skill and gameplay habits (these days less so due to the recent LOS changes, which more or less force you to try to maintain direct LOS to target whenever possible)

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I need more IS heavies anyways - as my only other ones are a single Marauder and the Marauder Bounty Hunter hero (which is...Okay...but I wish it had more Ballistic slots, lol - at least the camo is cool).

The most ballistic slots you'll find on a regular Marauder are three on a MAD-3R, and all three go in the same torso.

Some possibibilities:

• Warhammer 6R for a 2xUAC-10 / 2xLB10X build backed by a bunch of lasers.
  
• Roughneck 2A for a large ballistic + MRM brawl mech, it's a 65 tonner with heavy survival quirks (only mech with both armor and structure quirks stacked together AFAIK) - once you max out the survival tree it effectively becomes a pocket assault.
  
• Orion VA is meant to be a brawler - short range, but once you get in that range your arm-mounted quad SRMs and large ballistic in your torso make short work of enemies. It's one of my favourite Solaris rides, too.

Edited by Horseman, 09 May 2019 - 12:39 PM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Map development has always been slow. It's been hinted that it's a lot of work. Actually we have a decent number, if you count FP maps and Solaris maps we have more, but those are locked to those play modes. MW5 solves this by having procedurally generated maps. I wish they would have cut up a FP map into two different QP maps. Certainly save a lot of time that way I would think.

Aside from reskins, don't expect another new map...probably ever.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 09 May 2019 - 05:17 PM.

[Void Angel]

I wouldn't go that far, but yeah, development of maps has always been difficult for them - that's why I suspect that there's issues relating to what CryEngine wants to do and what they're doing with it in MWO. Maybe, IF they can leverage MW5 into an engine upgrade for this game, that'll change a bit - but there's no way to know what their thoughts are on that, or if it'll turn out to even be feasible.

Would be nice, though. But, I digress.

[Rosh87]

Horseman, on 09 May 2019 - 12:38 PM, said:

They are looked down mainly by two types of players: the eternal newbies who couldn't recognize cover if it bit their *** off, and elitist tryhards who believe lock-on weapons have cooties and would gimp their style.

The facts are that:

• LRMs get a lot of flak not because they're a bad weapon, but because there are a lot of inept players who gravitate towards using LRMs exclusively and consistently fail at using them correctly
  
• Employed properly, a LRM mech that stays with the team and consistently rains DPS on targets can be a force multiplier for their team
  
• Over-relying on LRMs - in particular, on indirect fire mode - may have a degrading effect on one's aiming skill and gameplay habits (these days less so due to the recent LOS changes, which more or less force you to try to maintain direct LOS to target whenever possible)

The most ballistic slots you'll find on a regular Marauder are three on a MAD-3R, and all three go in the same torso.

Some possibibilities:

• Warhammer 6R for a 2xUAC-10 / 2xLB10X build backed by a bunch of lasers.
  
• Roughneck 2A for a large ballistic + MRM brawl mech, it's a 65 tonner with heavy survival quirks (only mech with both armor and structure quirks stacked together AFAIK) - once you max out the survival tree it effectively becomes a pocket assault.
  
• Orion VA is meant to be a brawler - short range, but once you get in that range your arm-mounted quad SRMs and large ballistic in your torso make short work of enemies. It's one of my favourite Solaris rides, too.

Good explanation, thanks ! I think - perhaps - I"ll just try to withhold using them till I reach Tier-1, and then maybe mess around with them now and then, as I could always say "I know I made it from Tier-5 to Tier-1 without every using LRMs" - just as a personal note of satisfaction / honor, or such

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[color=#CCCCCC]"Roughneck 2A for a large ballistic + MRM brawl mech, it's a 65 tonner with heavy survival quirks (only mech with both armor and structure quirks stacked together AFAIK) - once you max out the survival tree it effectively becomes a pocket assault"[/color]

==

This intrigues me too - I'll look into one of them. May also pick up a Hellbringer, after I learned it has ECM options and a powerful Laser setup that people like. I did actually go ahead and bought the Rifleman pack, yesterday ! - after asking the earlier questions about it and Jaegermech. I played my very first game in it - completely stock / no skill bubbles purchased or such - using the AC-5 one (3-something, it's the one with -10% AC-5 and -10% Ballistics Cooldown combo).. . We won...and I did 489 damage ! A great start, I felt - and the mech was just what I like - a constant stream of Dakka !

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There was one other thing I was thinking to ask....trying to recall what it was....hmmm... (thinking) ... ah yes, I recall now:


1.) Clan Probe / Light Active Probe - from what I'm reading, these specifically do NOT "Counter ECM" - unlike the IS Beagle thing. Is that meant to be that way (balance) - and is there ever a reason to take the Clan versions then ?

2.) Command Console - any point to this ? I thought about putting one on my Atlas or Cyclops to be thematic, but unsure of overall point / viability

3.) Ever a reason to go beyond the Level-1 or 2 (max) Targeting Computers ? What mechs could ever actually fit the gigantic ones like Mark-6 or 7 ? (and are the bonuses even worth the slots and Weight ?)

4.) When someone hits you with a "NARC" what is that doing - and how can you fight it / shake it off - or are you doomed ?


5.) Instead of my usual Triple-RAC-2 setup on my Bushwhacker, I was debating trying an oddball setup I'd heard someone mention, which involves 2 Inner Sphere UAC-10's, mounted on the front (left torso / right torso) - and a Light Engine, (it barely fights it all in, IIRC)... viable or stick to the spam dakka for best results ?

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Thanks and now back to the battlefields ! o7

[Void Angel]

Both Active Probes counter ECM - the Clan versions are actually better at it because of their superior range. (unless they changed it recently; I haven't been playing much, and I might have missed a patch note or two.)

The Command Console rather sucks. It WAS the Inner Sphere counterpart to the Clans' Targeting Computers, but it wasn't worth it - and definitely not now that the tech timeline has been advanced so the IS have computers of their own.

I remember reading somewhere that Mk3-4 was the sweet spot for Clan Targeting Computers, but it depends on your build - and my memory might be faulty. The benefit/ton of the computers definitely drops as you add more tonnage, but remember that increasing velocity and range can allow you to engage with greater range (and accuracy, for projectiles against moving targets) than enemy players (or the original map designers) may have assumed. The massive investment in space for the bigger targeting computers isn't worth it unless you're trying to push the range limits of the game, however. I often use Targeting Computers on my Clan ballistic/PPC 'mech builds, but normally just a ton or three to fill out space. Once the targeting computer gets big enough that you could fit another major weapon system instead, it's probably not worth it.

NARC paints your 'mech for enemy LRM spotting, even through ECM - and it disables ECM on the 'mech struck, too, if I recall. They recently changed some of the mechanics for the LRM rework, so I don't have the new data memorized - but in general, the enemy knows where you are, you can't shake it off, and the weather forecast just got changed to "sunny, with a chance of high explosives." Find tall cover.

RACs do different things than UACs, but two UAC-10s will be brutal. Just don't try to use UACs as RACS, or vice versa. RACs are about the ultimate StareBear weapon - even more than heavy/ER laser weapons, you have to be pointed at the target. This has negative implications for your survivability if people are free to shoot at you, because of component targeting. UACs, on the other hand, are more torso twist brawling or corner-peeking weapons. They fire in bursts and then recycle, allowing you to twist away from incoming damage to make your 'mech last longer - I'm sure you're already familiar with this 'mechanic. As compared to normal ACs (not the outmoded Clan 'normal' ACs that were put in as a placeholder to LBX ammo switching,) UACs will do more damage at the cost of spread (because more projectiles) and unreliability due to the chance of a jam.

So! Both builds should be viable, but the UAC will do different things on the battlefield - it really depends on if you want to expand your repertoire of effective weapon systems and associated tactics. =)

Edited by Void Angel, 11 May 2019 - 11:56 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

I believe Clan Active Probes do counter ECM but only for the mech you have targeted. For IS AP, it's the closest ECM mech and you don't have to do anything.

I also thought the ranges were the same.

[Void Angel]

They used to be different in range. Hang on a sec...

Yes, the Beagle's range to detect shutdown 'mechs and cancel ECM is 120m, while the CAP and CLAP are 150m and 90m, respectively. Both the Beagle and CAP increase the carrying 'mech's sensor range by 25%, so that might be what you're remembering.

Now that you mention it, I think there was a targeting requirement on the CAP, leading some players to assume that it didn't counter ECM at all. =)

[Rosh87]

Void Angel, on 11 May 2019 - 05:11 PM, said:

They used to be different in range. Hang on a sec...

Yes, the Beagle's range to detect shutdown 'mechs and cancel ECM is 120m, while the CAP and CLAP are 150m and 90m, respectively. Both the Beagle and CAP increase the carrying 'mech's sensor range by 25%, so that might be what you're remembering.

Now that you mention it, I think there was a targeting requirement on the CAP, leading some players to assume that it didn't counter ECM at all. =)

Thanks then, for those clarifications Void. :-)

I think what made me uncertain is that, reading the actual In-Game wording for the two, you see this:

Beagle Active Probe: XXXXXXXXXX. COUNTERS ECM.

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Clan Light Active Probe: "Increases Targeting Range, Speeds up targeting Data, and can Detect Shut-Down Mechs at close range."

Clan Active Probe: - Literally the exact same wording, In-Game, as the Clan Light Active Probe, with the only difference being shown as +25% greater range instead of +15% (on the CLAP version).

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The key thing I wanted to point out was that NEITHER of the Clan versions specifically include the two words "COUNTERS ECM"... which is why I (up to this point) assumed it was just a balance thing that since Clans didn't use ECM / Stealth tech THAT much (preferring more straight up battles / honour stuff), that PGI just made their version of the Detector a bit less powerful than the Inner Sphere version.

But you guys are saying that - even though the In-Game description doesn't mention ECM at all, for the Clan Probes, it's still actually there ?

=======

* went ahead and tried out the Double UAC-10 thing on my High Roller (kept the Triple-Rac2's on my BSW-X1, just to keep them playing different / for novelty). What I observed was that, even when I'm swarmed and the team is blown away, I was still managing 300-400 damage games with the double UAC-10's, in shorter time than I could have with the RAC-2s. This is probably because I can get the damage out much faster with the UAC's - even when just firing them 'normally' // no double tapping, and if I DO double-tap, that's like 40 damage, basically - in a second or so, which is kind of powerful.

The only negative I've observed in the 4 or 5 games I've played with it - is it can be a LITTLE Light on Ammo (4-tons in my current setup), if the game goes really long / tense ending. Realistically though, you have enough for like 1000+ damage (in theory), which should normally be a massive game for any Medium Mech, and should ideally not be what your win - loss chances in a battle hinge upon hahah - but who knows, with the way some of these battles play out, right ?

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* so on the Narc again....if you are Narc'd, you are Narc'd for the ENTIRE battle ? No escape - forever lit up on the map to the entire enemy team ? That seems....almost OP ? There'd be way more Narc'ers running around in that case, no ? I rarely ever see them in Quickplay (at least) - even with all the Lurms that are active in the field.. so....is it just forgotten by the community, or is there more to it ?

* * one possible drawback I saw seemed to be the Range was extremely limited (450 meters)- so you'd have to get within almost every weapons's prime range to actually land one on an enemy Mech - though...I can imagine some wickedness if there are any Stealth Mechs that can also bring a Narc shooter....yikes ! They'd be able to light up the whole enemy force, no ? Surely there's a counter to that thing....

[Roland09]

NARC:

- These are active for 30 seconds by default (not sure whether or not there are skills or quirks which increase duration).
- Hitting an ECM mech with a NARC disables the ECM while the NARC is active, making that mech visible for your team (once the 30 seconds run out, ECM will be back to normal). Hitting a non-ECM mech with a NARC lights that mech, but when that mech reaches friendly ECM cover, this will disable the NARC, hiding the mech again.

[Horseman]

Rosh87, on 11 May 2019 - 03:19 AM, said:

This intrigues me too - I'll look into one of them.

Basically, a maxed Roughneck has twice the structure of a typical 65-tonner and the armor of an 80-tonner - with high shoulder mounts these things take a LOT to put down.

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2.) Command Console - any point to this ? I thought about putting one on my Atlas or Cyclops to be thematic, but unsure of overall point / viability

Nonviable.

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3.) Ever a reason to go beyond the Level-1 or 2 (max) Targeting Computers ? What mechs could ever actually fit the gigantic ones like Mark-6 or 7 ? (and are the bonuses even worth the slots and Weight ?)

You will see those on ballistic / PPC / ERLL snipers, where increased beam range means an increase in damage and increased projectile velocity means more accurate fire on target.

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5.) Instead of my usual Triple-RAC-2 setup on my Bushwhacker, I was debating trying an oddball setup I'd heard someone mention, which involves 2 Inner Sphere UAC-10's, mounted on the front (left torso / right torso) - and a Light Engine, (it barely fights it all in, IIRC)... viable or stick to the spam dakka for best results ?

It's viable and in fact one of my favourite BSW builds. However, with the BSW's frontal profile a LFE isn't all that useful. You really need an XL to carry adequate ammo on that build (4.5 tons, max 5 if you skimp on head/leg armor a little with an XL 255; up to 6 tons with an XL 225)

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The only negative I've observed in the 4 or 5 games I've played with it - is it can be a LITTLE Light on Ammo (4-tons in my current setup), if the game goes really long / tense ending.

XL 225 and you can chuck in 5.5 tons of ammo (or 3.5 tons and two Medium lasers) after stripping the arms. XL 255 and you have space for 4.5 tons.

Rosh87, on 12 May 2019 - 02:55 AM, said:

The key thing I wanted to point out was that NEITHER of the Clan versions specifically include the two words "COUNTERS ECM"... which is why I (up to this point) assumed it was just a balance thing that since Clans didn't use ECM / Stealth tech THAT much (preferring more straight up battles / honour stuff), that PGI just made their version of the Detector a bit less powerful than the Inner Sphere version.

But you guys are saying that - even though the In-Game description doesn't mention ECM at all, for the Clan Probes, it's still actually there ?

That is correct.

[Void Angel]

Oh, there is a lot of vague wording in some of the tooltips and equipment descriptions. =)

[Void Angel]

As for ammo, two tons each is low for most UACs, but it depends on how well you put damage onto the enemy, and how often you take non-optimal shots to discourage lights and keep people suppressed. But don't go for a set formula of how many tons you need (past rules of thumb for putting together an initial build.) Instead, do what I always tell people to do with builds, especially for heat sinks and ammo: iterate.

Keep track of how well you feel you're performing, particularly when you die or run out of ammo. Then ask yourself if your own practices are causing negative results, or if it's a build thing. If you're running out of ammo only occasionally, and then only at the end of the match, you're probably fine. If your deaths tend to happen because you're overheating and can't put enough fire downrange, you may need more heat sinks, while if you never overheat, you're probably wasting tonnage that would be better spent on armor, ammo, jump jets, or guns. You can do this (and should) with every aspect of your play, from finding an optimal heat/weapon mix for your playstyle to determining how many points of armor should go in your rear arc.

A word about the meta, while we're touching on builds - know it, use it, but don't be its slave. Once upon a time, there was an era of broken game balance called the Poptart Meta. You'll still hear about it from time to time. Poptarting is the practice of using long-range frontloaded damage weapons in concert with jump jets. It's not an overwhelming tactic any more - but back in the day, it was the optimized tactic. There was no counter. So of course people used it, unless they were terminally stubborn (I played an Atlas brawler...) - Because Meta; all the best players were doing it. And then comes the day when the nerfs came down, and the meta abruptly ended - and here are all these poptarts with no clue how to play the game now that their newbie hammer is taken away. The best players, the ones who drove the meta, weren't stuck; they adopted poptarts because they were optimal, and then went on to establish the new meta when the tactic was gone. But those who simply aped the meta without understanding the game were hurt by their own laziness.

The other side of this is That Guy who hates the meta and Builds What He Wants. The guys with A Gun for All Seasons belong in this camp; you've probably seen them already. These are the guys with an Atlas armed for every possible engagement range - and the armaments of a 'mech half their size at any given fighting distance. Or the guys who insist on using LRMs and UACs in concert, even though the requirement to lead targets works directly against the LRM lock-on mechanics. Dismissing the meta because you don't want anyone to tell you how to play "your" game will also hurt you - and it demonstrates a disregard for your fellow players superficially identical to sociopathy.

I don't see either of these tendencies in your posts, but you should be warned against them. And, if you really just study the game and iterate your builds, you'll get to the meta anyway. I remember a newbie, years ago, before the clans and all that, who bought an Atlas and asked for advice on his build. We gave him a few pointers on general builds, but nothing too specific. The guy comes back with a flat-out meta Atlas brawler build. Literally the exact optimized build, and he came up with it by looking at what did and didn't work for a close-range 'mech, and making adjustments.

[Rosh87]

Great advice, as always Void ! You embody the kind / guardianship of Clan Ghost Bear elders



On the meta concept ...what I've found (which has surely helped my Speed of Progress, though - I still do have to "play the matches" - and even a 'great build' can't account for everything, I agree).... is that having the benefit of many great sites like the Forum here, or MechSpecs, or resources like Baradul or TTB (or the others) whose videos highlighting various builds (while not necessarily THE Meta Build for any given mech), have gotten me "thinking" about MechLab options and what's considered good synergy or how you can play a mech / style wise, map-wise, etc- which has really helped me a lot.



In some cases, the results have been immediately noticeable. For quick example, I bought the Adder Clan Light mech this past weekend, during the Light Sale $....as I find myself most at ease (with Lights) when they have 35 tons and can be "psedo-Mediums" in playstyle. Now...on my own, I "came up with" a build of 3 Large Lasers, which I would fire in two groups - 1 for the "head / torso" and the other two from the arms. This was....serviceable....but probably not ideal. I think my best game was 275 damage inflicted with a few KB's on Solaris City.


THEN..I saw build discussions of the mech, on the MechSpecs forum, and one of the guys said "we can finally have the Adder we deserve, lol" - or something like that, and presented a build with 5 Medium Pulse Lasers ! I was intrigued, as my Crab-27B with 6 Medium Pulse lasers has been a great Mech for me - so the idea of fitting 5 Clan versions, on a faster / slightly smaller Light package, was intriguing. I loaded it out with the 5 Med-Pulses, and tried it out this morning, after getting home from work - and in my very first battle in this new Configuration, on Crimson Strait, I produced the following match:



Damage: 423

Kill Assist: 8

KMDD: 1

Spotting Assist: 5

Component Destroyed: 3

Savior Kill: 3

Counter ECM Locked Damage: 1







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So, I was quite excited about the great improvement to my battlefield contribution-potential. Once you get down the mechanics of the Mechlab and managing the weight limits, the Hardpoints, and fitting sensible combos into your machine, certain things kind of stand out as "better or worse" - than others. So I get what you mean that it's possible to "arrive at" the Meta / so to speak, via trial and error or just thinking it over. But...I think I've certainly been blessed to have all these resources at hand, to help me not have to "struggle" as much with "user-inflicted Pain" via bad mech selections (poor variants, or just out and out Stinkers), and / or bad / sub-par setups for most of my games with em'.





* one bonus question I wanted to toss in at the end here, is with the Artillery Strike (or Airstrike I guess) - does it work by first targeting an enemy, and no matter where they are you press F2 or such and the strike comes down on that - or must you have actual line of sight to them ? (as long as it is within Lock-On Range ?) Or...is there some other trick to it ?



Also, I observed that the bar "fills up" for the Arty Strike and then the computer says "Artillery Strike Ready", but then it seems to "fade away" if you don't use it right away (shortly after it is ready)... like, what is that about ? what is happening there ? (i'm assuming the same thing happens with Airstrikes, but am not sure as I've never used one yet)

[Horseman]

Rosh87, on 15 May 2019 - 04:28 AM, said:

* one bonus question I wanted to toss in at the end here, is with the Artillery Strike (or Airstrike I guess) - does it work by first targeting an enemy, and no matter where they are you press F2 or such and the strike comes down on that - or must you have actual line of sight to them ? (as long as it is within Lock-On Range ?) Or...is there some other trick to it ?

It goes to the exact spot your arm reticle is pointing at. If your reticle is pointing at a rock, then that is where the strike goes.

Do note that in some maps you can drop the smoke marker underneath a platform, and the shells will land on the enemies who are on top of it (and who were unable to move away because they weren't even able to see the marker). This can be used to great effect on the platform on Crimson Strait for example.

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Also, I observed that the bar "fills up" for the Arty Strike and then the computer says "Artillery Strike Ready", but then it seems to "fade away" if you don't use it right away (shortly after it is ready)... like, what is that about ? what is happening there ? (i'm assuming the same thing happens with Airstrikes, but am not sure as I've never used one yet)

What is happening is that the cooldown for using strikes is shared by your entire team and applies to both strike types.

[Void Angel]

(Should I tell him I'm in a merc unit that bounces back and forth between the Adjective Animals and civilized space? Nah...)

Edited by Void Angel, 15 May 2019 - 08:03 PM.