24 replies to this topic

[spectre21]

I was wondering if anyone else thought it was an interesting idea to get salvage after a battle, like in the older mechwarrior games. Like a random chance or a percentile chance, and you could get like a weapon or equipment, and an even lower chance at getting a battlemech, just an idea that i though would be cool to make things a little more interesting.

[Savage Sweets]

I like and dislike the idea of this, simultaneously.

Salvage a Mech, even at a super low chance?

• Doubt it. Utterly and completely, bc Mechs are MWOs main source of income (given their insanely high prices).

Salvage a part (equipment or weapon)?

• I could see this more likely happening, but... probably implemented terribly; such as:
  
  • Making players lose parts to accommodate part salvaging.
    
  • Making players pay heavy C-Bill prices to repair the part for use.
    
    • Worse, making repairs to parts an MC-only feature.
  • Only receiving extremely cheap and/or horrible parts; like flamers, small/medium lasers.

As always with online games, I am wary of good ideas being executed horrendously to overly benefit companies and screw players. I understand companies need to pay their employees, but the pricing of some online games is simply absurd.

[Chopsaw]

Yes...in fact, salvage should be the primary method of obtaining weapons, parts, and chassis. Call it economy hard-mode. You know why every game is a race to the middle and then death-ball it? Because there are no consequences to having your mech damaged or destroyed. Your expensive ER PPC got blown off? No worries...it magically appears for the next match. That arm? meh...reattached. All that ammo you spent? The store always has plenty and it's FREE!

Now, make the following changes and players will be a hell of a lot more careful (AKA, use tactics more)

• Reinstate re-arm/repair
  
• Store may or may not have the mech parts needed to repair
  
• Store may or may not have the ammo needed
  
• Store may or may not have the weapons needed
  
• Mech chassis, parts, weapons, ammo can be salvaged from the battle field
  
• Make leaving the play area not result in death, just removal from match...retreating is a valid tactic to survive!

Assault mechs are supposed to be rare. Pilots faced with the risk that of ending up with a mech that can't be fully repaired will choose less expensive mechs and pilot them in a more tactical manner.

With re-arm/repair plus possible item shortages, ALL pilots will be a bit more careful overall.

Edited by Chopsaw, 29 January 2015 - 07:01 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

We have salvage already.

The problem is, it's converted into c-bills, and is an absurdly low value.

I would prefer a system where salvage was actually the lion's share of the reward differential between a win and a loss/draw (since only the winning team gets salvage rewards).

Say, your employer (Clan, Great House, etc.) takes 90% off the top. Then, the remaining 10% is divided evenly among all the members of the winning team.

Say you have an average value of 10 million c-bills (it'd likely be a lot more given the preponderance of Mad Cats, Ryokens, Daishis, and tricked-out, upgraded IS rides) on the enemy team, and you kill all twelve. Let's say, then, that half of that is lost to damage done (destroyed engines, blown equipment, etc.). That leaves the following for your individual pay:

10,000,000 / 2 * 0.1 = 50,000. That could go a good bit higher with 15-20 million c-bill enemies getting killed efficiently (head shots, double-legging, etc.). Note, you'd multiply the above value by 12 to account for each enemy mech, but you'd divide it by 12 again to account for the split for the members of your team, so it's a wash.

One benefit to a cash-only salvage plan is that PGI would not have to work out a way to divvy up the physical salvage, which would otherwise be an issue of fairness. As well, since so much of the salvage you would gain would be cross-tech, and thus useless for many players, it'd likely end up sold regardless. This is only amplified when you account for salvaging entire mechs (however that comes about). I know my Clan account would just sell any IS items or mechs it gained, and my IS account would do the same with Clan tech. PGI may as well skip the tiresome process of navigating their mechlab interface and go straight to cash payments. You can buy the tech you want if you get the cash, far more easily than you can sell tech you don't want for cash you can use.

[Kjudoon]

Raw salvage in the form of parts is what we need.

[VinJade]

I wouldn't mind as long as I didn't actually lose my equipment as that would be terrible as if one is running Clan mechs the replacement parts are not cheap more so for those that just bought a mech and go in dies or lost because of the following:
Base Captured
Most resources gathered
Most mechs killed in the end
Ect

so I feel it would be alright if the following happened:
No actual lost of equipment
Items gathered needs to be repaired(or sold at a much larger reduction of price)
Items are randomly given out to the team

[Savage Sweets]

Chopsaw, on 29 January 2015 - 06:57 PM, said:

Yes...in fact, salvage should be the primary method of obtaining weapons, parts, and chassis. Call it economy hard-mode.

I have to object to this, bc MWO is already a highly beginner-unfriendly game.

There doesn't need to be more incentive for players to pass it up for being hardcore, in addition to possibly alienating a sizable portion of its current populace. If MWO wasn't already so grindy, perhaps I could see such a hardcore system being generally accepted. But as it stands now, I would probably quit if such a system was implemented.


I also fear that your proposed changes (if executed) would severely increase the idiotic footsies/"peek-a-boom" game that people constantly play when they should be charging at an enemy force.

Edited by Savage Sweets, 29 January 2015 - 08:45 PM.

[VinJade]

@ Savage Sweets
I know those with lights and those that heavily use ECMs would have a much higher chance of cheap wins.

though if a player was to lose their equipment and or mech/s would be angry if they lost their 'phoenix' mech or MC(real cash) mechs.

same for the loss of equipment, as it is its a stupid idea if the loss of equipment and or mechs.
I know I would stop using my personal mech and equipment if I knew there was a chance to lose any of them and would stick with trial mechs.

as long as no one loses anything then I guess it would be alright if done correctly however as you said it already is a grind fest and unfriendly(game wise) to new players.

[Metafox]

I'd prefer occasional random equipment drops over our current CBill salvage system, assuming that PGI would be able to balance out overall player income without drastically reducing other CBill rewards.

[Chopsaw]

VinJade, on 29 January 2015 - 10:35 PM, said:

same for the loss of equipment, as it is its a stupid idea if the loss of equipment and or mechs.
I know I would stop using my personal mech and equipment if I knew there was a chance to lose any of them and would stick with trial mechs.

The suggestion wasn't that a pilot could lose equipment, just that it would need to be repaired at a cost. And there may be availability issues. That way, not only are you more tactical while playing, you also make builds where you're thinking about weapon placement in regards to their vulnerability.

Edited by Chopsaw, 30 January 2015 - 06:01 AM.

[VinJade]

@Chopsaw
ah I see I misunderstood then, my apologizes

[Savage Sweets]

Metafox, on 29 January 2015 - 11:18 PM, said:

I'd prefer occasional random equipment drops over our current CBill salvage system, assuming that PGI would be able to balance out overall player income without drastically reducing other CBill rewards.

If current C-Bill rewards were reduced anymore, we might as well not get paid at all in matches.
I'm not even sure if simply adding occasional random equipment drops to the current C-Bill rewards would help much.

Chopsaw, on 30 January 2015 - 06:00 AM, said:

The suggestion wasn't that a pilot could lose equipment, just that it would need to be repaired at a cost.

Repair costs, albeit auto-deducted after each match, was a thing when MWO began (as far as my veteran buddies have informed me).

Chopsaw, on 30 January 2015 - 06:00 AM, said:

And there may be availability issues.

Too much randomness, and as a result, foreseeable irritation from the player base.
People like consistency. MWO already has a small enough population.

Chopsaw, on 30 January 2015 - 06:00 AM, said:

That way, not only are you more tactical while playing, you also make builds where you're thinking about weapon placement in regards to their vulnerability.

I don't know about you, but I always do that (unless I'm just having a really horrible match and just want to end the suffering quicker while still doing something of substance).

As a whole, players who want success should play tactically and mind where their weapons are placed; without an in-game system forcing it upon them.

As I said before, a system encouraging you not to get any components damaged for fear of high repair bills & random part unavailability will more than likely increase cowardice, especially from the less experienced and/or those concerned about their C-Bills.


P.S ~ Please keep in mind, that at no time, am I intentionally belittling your ideas. All perceptions of such are one's own, but nevertheless, I apologize in advance if you should feel this way from any of my comments.

[VinJade]

@SavageSweets
I agree, if players are forced to have to pay repair cost in a game where C-bills are in short supply as it is, many would be changing their playing style and or stick with trial mechs instead of buying their own.

[Metafox]

Savage Sweets, on 30 January 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

If current C-Bill rewards were reduced anymore, we might as well not get paid at all in matches.
I'm not even sure if simply adding occasional random equipment drops to the current C-Bill rewards would help much.

It's my understanding that PGI monitors overall average CBill income and fine-tunes it to get it where they want. Either PGI would have to slash our CBill income to account for the value of salvaged gear, or the value of salvaged gear would be too low to be worth caring about.

To rephrase my previous post, if PGI could think of a good way to give us equipment drops without reducing CBill income then that would be great. For example, salvaged gear might have a 0 CBill resale value so that it wouldn't add to our CBill income.

Another idea for mech salvage: Perhaps we could occasionally get a single mech component in salvage and we'd need to collect all 7 components to claim the salvaged mech.

Edited by Metafox, 30 January 2015 - 06:42 PM.

[Savage Sweets]

Metafox, on 30 January 2015 - 06:40 PM, said:

It's my understanding that PGI monitors overall average CBill income and fine-tunes it to get it where they want. Either PGI would have to slash our CBill income to account for the value of salvaged gear, or the value of salvaged gear would be too low to be worth caring about.

Keywords: "where they want" ...not "where it should be", by which I mean "a reasonable middle ground"; not the nigh-irrefutably low amount of C-Bills earned after each match (with the exception of extremely skilled and/or lucky pilots and matches).

With C-Bill rewards at an all-time low, and mechs & their components selling for only half price, there isn't much to be gained that would really break MWO's already non-existent economy. So, we would collect pennies a little faster. Hooray.

Metafox, on 30 January 2015 - 06:40 PM, said:

Another idea for mech salvage: Perhaps we could occasionally get a single mech component in salvage and we'd need to collect all 7 components to claim the salvaged mech.

This actually sounds fun. Feeding to that "gotta catch 'em all" thing most humans are prone to.

[Lead Sponge]

I would really love an RPG mode like what you saw in Mechwarrior Mercenaries titles. That's what Ioved most about it those games. You could easily do it as a single player/co-op campaign where you got to pick a stable of mechs. As you lost them in battle, they got locked out. So, basically it's a separate game mode not related to the main game. Considering you lose gear and equipment, you would need fall back locations and such.

You could even do a co-operative, PVP campaign, where you and your friends are deployed into missions against other players. The key thing is it's separate, so it doesn't impact regular play and you can always drop back and do the standard session based games.

[Zephonarch II]

For MWO, I'd like salvage but Mech salvage would probably ruin the nice grind you get for saving up for Mechs. I'm a free player, and I only have 1 Assault Mech with elite perks. For Assaults, that's the most I've got. But let's not put out the salvage flame here. Why not allow player to on random gain Weapon, Ammo, Engine salvage drops?

If your enemy say is carrying a Standard engine, and your team wins, and this enemy was killed by 2 leg shots, a headshot, or by some chance it is still redeemable and repairable. Maybe the devs could implement that system.

And another work-around I thought of, why not repair the salvage you get at a cost? Cbills I mean. Less then the selling price btw, so it isn't a waste of time when a mint PPC in the store is always available for example.

MWO needs salvage, and maybe repairing. But Mech salvage? Maybe not. It doesn't fit the game's model.

Metafox, on 30 January 2015 - 06:40 PM, said:

To rephrase my previous post, if PGI could think of a good way to give us equipment drops without reducing CBill income then that would be great. For example, salvaged gear might have a 0 CBill resale value so that it wouldn't add to our CBill income.

Another idea for mech salvage: Perhaps we could occasionally get a single mech component in salvage and we'd need to collect all 7 components to claim the salvaged mech.

Weapon salvage, how could this get in the game? I don't know, but it's nice see some decent suggestions out there like this. And the Mech component build-up... nice. It'd better be tedious. And it better yield a more "Wal-Mart" version of the Mech you're reassembling. Like say, it comes with LESS QUIRKS (as an IS mech) or LESS HARDPOINTS(as a CLAN TECH mech). Or maybe even slightly less armour. DO IT PGI. This could work for the better! As long as they make these Mechs known to be salvage mechs. Almost like Trials but customizable and weaker. maybe. And it should sell at a lower price I guess.

Edited by Zephonarch II, 03 February 2015 - 04:53 PM.

[Jiyu Mononoke]

Salvage:
- Make it fun: As you play, you stack up points towards certain weapons and equipment, even chassis. If (over the course of time) you destroy 5 Lagre lasers, you get one as salvage.
- If you destroy 5 XL300 engines, you get one.
- If you destroy 25 TBR-S Mad Cats (Timberwolves) You get one empty TBR-S chassis, (no omni-pods), want the omni pods, go hunt Timby’s and destroy 5 of those too… or buy em with c-bills.
You should be allowed to convert one Clan mech to IS, and visa-versa, either through slavege, C-Bills, or maybe both/either, but it should be a challenge, something you earn.

[The6thMessenger]

Just make some sort of "Item Crafting" mechanic, that allows us to make weapons and equipment with either less cbills, or just by using parts.

[Makenzie71]

I'm going to say no...there's no way to accommodate the idea of salvage if we're not losing stuff when we lose. especially when the MM can't figure out how to make matches fair. I don't want to have to buy new guns and armor and equipment (and possibly mechs) because the matchmake made a potato farm of my team.